Aces preflop..Easy fold??

Flushdraw

I've left the whole hand in because the result is irrelevant. 16 players left in a small satellite. Its a $14 MTT for $75 tokens. Theres 14 tokens up for grabs and you find AA in the SB and the Chip leader puts a raise in against you.

The biggest stack at the other table is 10k and theres a few hovering around the 2k mark. The big stack hasnt been bullying the table so he probably has a decent enough hand. What do you do?

Full Tilt Poker Game #3272480724: $75 Token Frenzy (24481638), Table 3 - 500/1000 Ante 125 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:10:47 ET - 2007/08/16
Seat 1: nofear1blue (3,084)
Seat 2: AzzWipers (2,575)
Seat 3: FLOPSTARR (6,274)
Seat 4: Check-Donk (12,558) - AA
Seat 5: FyrBird3 (5,665)
Seat 6: Conq1 (28,949)
Seat 8: Miss Bluffer (12,490)
Seat 9: mandablais (10,549)
nofear1blue antes 125
AzzWipers antes 125
FLOPSTARR antes 125
Check-Donk antes 125
FyrBird3 antes 125
Conq1 antes 125
Miss Bluffer antes 125
mandablais antes 125
Check-Donk posts the small blind of 500
FyrBird3 posts the big blind of 1,000
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Conq1 has 15 seconds left to act
Conq1 raises to 3,000
Miss Bluffer folds
mandablais folds
nofear1blue has 15 seconds left to act
nofear1blue is sitting out
nofear1blue has timed out
nofear1blue folds
nofear1blue has returned
AzzWipers folds
FLOPSTARR folds
Check-Donk has been disconnected
Check-Donk: i got a monster
Check-Donk has reconnected
Check-Donk has 15 seconds left to act
Check-Donk raises to 12,433, and is all in
FyrBird3 folds
Conq1 has 15 seconds left to act
Conq1 calls 9,433
Check-Donk shows [Ac Ah]
Conq1 shows [Jd Js]
FLOPSTARR: sweet we're iun
*** FLOP *** [3s 9h Jc]
*** TURN *** [3s 9h Jc] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [3s 9h Jc 5c] [2d]
Check-Donk shows a pair of Aces
Conq1 shows three of a kind, Jacks
Conq1 wins the pot (26,866) with three of a kind, Jacks
Check-Donk stands up
The blinds are now 600/1,200 with an ante of 150
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 26,866 | Rake 0
Board: [3s 9h Jc 5c 2d]
Seat 1: nofear1blue folded before the Flop
Seat 2: AzzWipers folded before the Flop
Seat 3: FLOPSTARR (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Check-Donk (small blind) showed [Ac Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: FyrBird3 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Conq1 showed [Jd Js] and won (26,866) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 8: Miss Bluffer folded before the Flop
Seat 9: mandablais folded before the Flop

Edit: I'm not involved in the hand. I was at the other table just keeping an eye on what was happening

valor

i would fold, we can easily fold into the tickets

sikes

Atari Jaguar

yeah defo fold.

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

Interesting. I've never found a bubble situation where you can fold AA preflop, but then again I've never looked at situations where players have 2BBs. And I don't understand the payout. What's a satellite for tokens? Is it a flat payout?

sikes

Atari Jaguar

yeah flat payout, I assume its a turbo too.

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

sikes wrote:

yeah flat payout, I assume its a turbo too.

Fair enough, easy fold so.

Flushdraw

Atari Jaguar

Yeah it was a turbo. Blinds up every 5 minutes.

It was a $14+$1 buyin and for every $75 in the prizepool, a token is awarded for entry into one of their $75 buyin events.

DemocAnarchis

Fold

Misread the players left as 60, not 16. Yeah, if its a flat payout, fold in to the money here every time.

cardshark202

Atari Jaguar

snap-fold

nicnicnic

Fold

I'd probably call for the craic

RoundTower

Min raise and fold to a push.




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LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Moneymaker

LuckyLloyd wrote:

fold and click the sit out button.

+1

bottom feeder

Atari Jaguar

Tony i think we had a conversation about a similar hand and i had said i'd call but after looking at this post its a deffo fold for me too.

ligger

Atari Jaguar

I fold. Serves this guy right though for saying I have a monster in the chat box. He was asking to be dogged..

Yeah, fold for me too. The call by the JJ is worse than the push by AA IMO though.

sikes

Atari Jaguar

Nah the call is fine, i would have called with 72o in his shoes.

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

sikes wrote:

Nah the call is fine, i would have called with 72o in his shoes.

lol, I don't believe you would!

Edit: Although, with a flat payout structure and so many small stacks, and being a big stack yourself, maybe you're right.

sikes

Atari Jaguar

lenny_leonard wrote:

lol, I don't believe you would!

well if i had raised with it i would have. Im not risking much equity at all, if any. Its what makes turbos sats great, you can completly take the piss in them. I prob would have just pushed in the first instance!

I posted a hand in BBV before when i called a shove from the SB into my BB for about 1/3 my stack with 72o. Obviosuly I won, but I do that kind of stuff all the time.

Inquitus

Fold

So last 14 left all get the same prize a $75 buyin? and there's 18 or so left....fold it I guess, nothing to gain.

RasTa

Atari Jaguar

I say fold because it's the correct play, but I'd probably never do it.

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

To the people who voted all-in, what are you basing it on?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Captain Tom

Fold

lol. i didnt even know you could check who voted for what. obv never fold here though. folding aces pre flop is probably exploitable in the long run.

kmick

Fold

Percenatge AA will win = 75%

This is tough for me because I usually find that sitting on your stack and not playing good cards tends to mean you hemorrage chips and then have to make a dodgy call later on. There are 18 players left and most of them are going to be playing pretty tight (or not - I was not there to judge) so when you call you are generally up against a hand.

I say fold but only because I have lost on AA roughly half the time I play it.

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

It's a clear fold because with a flat payout and so many 2-3BBs stacks, your 12BB stack is equivalent, in equity terms, to having a prize locked up without having to get involved. And doubling up does practically nothing to your equity here. But getting called and outdrawn by a bigger stack is disasterous in equity terms.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Captain Tom

Fold

you're wrong lloyd. the all-in move is the most powerful tool in texas unlimited hold them. (end of levelling)

Hitman Actual

Atari Jaguar

Captain Tom wrote:

(end of levelling)

:o:o

Flushdraw

Atari Jaguar

Yeah i was amazed he pushed over the top from the blinds. Its defo a time when folding AA is a no-brainer. It just got me thinking that if the rolls were reversed and Check-Donk was the button and raised to 4k and the big stack pushed, what would i do with Aces...

Personally i'd just push preflop and take the decision away but if i played it as below, i'd be using up all my time making my decision

Seat 1: nofear1blue (3,084)
Seat 2: AzzWipers (2,575)
Seat 3: FLOPSTARR (6,274)
Seat 4: Check-Donk (12,558) - button raise to 4k with AA
Seat 5: FyrBird3 (5,665) - fold
Seat 6: Conq1 (28,949) - allin....
Seat 8: Miss Bluffer (12,490)
Seat 9: mandablais (10,549)

sikes

Atari Jaguar

Defo fold still, you wil pick up a ticket >80% of the time, though I would open fold it not open shove.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

cardshark202

Atari Jaguar

Lloyd you've got to stop being levelled, thats not the first time!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Flushdraw

Atari Jaguar

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'm such an easy target.

Lloyd, this could be the most useful chart you own.....

Put the chart on your wall and when someone replies to a post, check to chart to see if you are being levelled or not

http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=70156_poker_chart.._122_600lo.JPG

cardshark202

Atari Jaguar

Nice image, did you make that yourself or did you pay someone to do it?

RoundTower

sikes wrote:

Defo fold still, you wil pick up a ticket >80% of the time, though I would open fold it not open shove.

Lol 80%. 87.5% of the remaining players are getting a ticket. You have way above average so you deserve more like 98% of a ticket. If it was really close to 80% you should shove.

sikes

Atari Jaguar

RoundTower wrote:

Lol 80%. 87.5% of the remaining players are getting a ticket. You have way above average so you deserve more like 98% of a ticket. If it was really close to 80% you should shove.

I didnt say it was close to 80% for a ticket, I implied that if it was around 80% I would consider a shove.

Flushdraw

Atari Jaguar

cardshark202 wrote:

Nice image, did you make that yourself or did you pay someone to do it?

I knew doing 3 years of Art in school wouldnt go to waste!

Moro Man

Atari Jaguar

Against chip leader all in....

Upside of winning...... still pretty sure of a ticket

Downside of losing...... no ticket

Correct play..... fold..... even post flop with 99 on a 952 rainbow flop........ The gutter is full of poker players with hard luck stories that begin with "......I flopped top set on a rainbow flop and he hit runner runner......"

Van Dice

Atari Jaguar

Moro Man wrote:

The gutter is full of poker players with hard luck stories that begin with "......I flopped top set on a rainbow flop

doubt it's a very full gutter!

HeeHawsCantona

your use of the chat box was slightly unethical in my opinion - quite clever also it has to be said.

Flushdraw

Atari Jaguar

HeeHawsCantona wrote:

your use of the chat box was slightly unethical in my opinion - quite clever also it has to be said.

I'm not in the hand HHC

Goodluck2me

Atari Jaguar

Van Dice wrote:

doubt it's a very full gutter!

no its full,its just very small...

sikes wrote:

yeah defo fold

sikes wrote:

Nah the call is fine, i would have called with 72o in his shoes

I see some inconsistencies in your answers! you fold AA and call the other raise with 27o? your reading the wrong books simon!

HeeHawsCantona

Sorry Tony I thought that it was u who had AA - in that case I think the use of the chat box by the player with AA was questionable

sikes

Atari Jaguar

goodluck2me wrote:

I see some inconsistencies in your answers! you fold AA and call the other raise with 27o? your reading the wrong books simon!

They were discussing the hand from different perspectives.