Integrated coffee maker

dsg

HELP!! Can someone please direct me to a supplier of integrated coffee machines? Power city order siemens models in but don't have any on display, and the siemens website only shows one type. I've looked everywhere on the web and can't come up with anything. I need to get this thing bought so I can give the measurements to the kitchen planner. Basically I want a stainless steel finish, integrated coffee maker, with warming drawer underneath.

smashey

Moved to the coffee & tea forum.

Jeez, I never expected to be moving something here.

RE*AC*TOR

House of Frasier, Arnotts, Brown Thomas...

*edit* sorry - didn't fully understand the "integrated" bit.

billyblanks

Had a quick look...not a lot in Ireland, you may have to go to England to get something?
This website has a good selection....I'm sure they all kinda do the same job, If you are under pressure just pick one you like, get the dimensions, and either order it from them or contact the Irish supplier and see if they can help...

Other option....buy a real coffee machine;) someone had to say it.

Gran Hermano

Must admit I'd be reluctant to go integrated, for the same money
you'd get a pretty decent stand-alone grinder and espresso machine.
(Most of the machines on the above link were 750 euro+).

Also with integrated appliances, if anything goes wrong with the machine
or you want to upgrade you're stuck trying to buy an appliance of the
exact same dimensions to avoid having an ugly gap.

dsg

ok, i've decided. it's way too much hassle going integrated. have scrapped the idea for good. going to get most decent coffee machine i can and hope it looks nice sitting on top of the worktop! have heard loads of bad things about integrated and as for the cost!!! ridiculous. thanks for the replies.

Slaphead07

Neff do them and they're based in Citywest. But these are utterly inferior to a "proper" standalone machine... even if they are Neff and expensive!

dsg

Slaphead07 wrote:

Neff do them and they're based in Citywest. But these are utterly inferior to a "proper" standalone machine... even if they are Neff and expensive!

well i absolutely don't want an "inferior" machine and i absolutely want a "proper" machine!:D I'm very particular about my coffee and have dreams about getting up in the morning, making a fantastic cup of coffee, sitting on my nice sofa at the kitchen window, reading the paper and relaxing with the best cup of coffee i can make at home......so in your opinion what would be the best way to go?? make, model, best beans etc? any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Gran Hermano

Not sure whether you've seen this recent thread
Might be a useful starting point. If you've any questions
regarding particular models/machines post them up.

billyblanks

dsg wrote:

well i absolutely don't want an "inferior" machine and i absolutely want a "proper" machine!:D I'm very particular about my coffee and have dreams about getting up in the morning, making a fantastic cup of coffee, sitting on my nice sofa at the kitchen window, reading the paper and relaxing with the best cup of coffee i can make at home......so in your opinion what would be the best way to go?? make, model, best beans etc? any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Well it's kinda hard to suggest any machine until we know what you are looking for..

First off ,are you looking a fully automatic? ie...pour beans into hopper, press button and the machine does the rest.

Or are you looking for a semi-automatic, one where you grind the coffee,(or buy pre-ground) dose it, tamp it and so on....

Also, knowing how much you would be willing to spend would help.

Cheers.

RE*AC*TOR

He's looking for the best cup of coffee he can make at home.

That rules out a super-automatic (which is what you are describing) straight away in all fairness.

It either going to be a semi-auto or a lever, with a grinder, and may I be so bold......... a roaster.

He should, however, give us an idea of budget and counter space, then we can start firing ideas at him. Too many choices right now.

Slaphead07

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

That rules out a super-automatic (which is what you are describing) straight away in all fairness.

OOohhhhh I dunno. I can only go by my own expierience but after years of good quality "lock and load" machines I treated myself to a Gaggia Syncrony logic and the coffee is as good from that as any machine I had previously and it is, of course, consistent.

billyblanks

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

He's looking for the best cup of coffee he can make at home.

That rules out a super-automatic (which is what you are describing) straight away in all fairness.

It either going to be a semi-auto or a lever, with a grinder, and may I be so bold......... a roaster.QUOTE]

I have had plenty of people ask me "which coffee machine they should buy" they all love the Silvia, until I make them use it! something I have learned is that there are plenty of people into their coffee but really don't want the hassle/time of a semi automatic.

You are absolutely right, Super Autos produce inferior coffee,and I would always advise people to stay away from them, but as Slaphea07 said they are consistent and zero hassle....and sometimes the best choice.

dsg

ok, firstly, "he" is actually a she! Counter space is unlimited, money isn't an issue as such (was willing to spend 1500 euro on the integrated dont forget), not bothered about what i'll have to do in order to make coffee, not bothered about whether i have to use pre ground or beans or roasters or any of that mullarkey. I'm not a technophobe if thats any help.....Also I would rather put my trust in the answers i get from this forum rather than the idiots working in the stores trying to get me to part with my hard earned cash! If I can get an all in one good all rounder type of machine then I'll be happy and forever grateful to everyone that helped point me in the right direction.

RE*AC*TOR

To make the best possible cup of coffee you need 4 things - 4 Ms in Italy

Miscela - the blend, ie the beans. Freshly roasted is supremely important. You really want beans that have been roasted in the last week, up to 2 weeks if they've been stored really well. A few places around Dublin will supply you with Fresh beans, but they are not always convenient or cheap. Personally I roast my own. I order unroasted green coffee beans in 2kg bags for about £13 or so from hasbean.co.uk. I roast with an iRoast2.

Macinadosatore - basically the grinder. To get the most out of your fresh beans, you need to grind them immediately before use, only grind as much s you need for the coffee you need to make. The grind must be fine, but also even. To achieve this you need a conical or flat burr grinder. There are some good options out there, but you will need to spend at least €150 on this.

Macchina espresso - the machine. Basically you want something that will deliver water at about 92 degrees C at 9 bars of pressure to the coffee puck. People might think this is the most important part, but in reality its no more important. I can guarantee you that I could make better espresso with fresh beans and a good grinder on a €200 machine, than with stale beans on a €2000 machine.

Mano - the hand, your hand to be specific. You need to apply the right techniques. Find the best grind for the particular bean and your machine. Tamp the coffee with an appropriate amount of temperature, heat the cups etc etc. Froth the milk. Again, the willingness of the person operating the machine to learn the technique and improve makes huge amount of difference.


Good all round machine... Rancilio Silvia (€460) / Gaggia Classic (€340 ish) / Isomac Tea (€1000 ish)
Good all round grinder... Rancilio Rocky (€260) / Iberital MC2 (€150) / Gaggia MDF (€175) / Macap MC4 (€350) / Mazzer Mini (€600)
Roaster... iRoast2 (€180) / stove top (€50)


Generally with the above the more expensive items are also better in one or more ways. Still, going out and splashing the cash on a Mazzer Mini and an Isomac Tea would probably be overkill. If you only ever intend on making espresso based drinks then as stepless grinder would be best (ie not a Gaggia MDF), if, however, you also use french press, moka etc then a stepped grinder is a lot easier to adjust).

The Silvia has a bigger boiler than the Classic, so it has better heat retention, but the Isomac is a heat exchanger machine, so it can continuosly produce hot water or steam.

You need to find your level. Its worth having a read of the various guides over at coffeegeek.com

PS sorry for the repeated use of "he"

Mr Magnolia

Great post RE*AC*TOR.

A good Tamper to apply the pressure to the ground bean in the basket will also cost €25-€40

Slaphead07

if you do consider the "push a button here's your espresso" option I've found the Gaggia Syncrony Logic to be very good. Handy when you're getting the kid's brekkie/lunch made first thing in the morning! They look good on the worktop counter too. Roughly €600 depending on stocks... Arnotts or Home Store & More have them I think.

Gran Hermano

Whilst the "press one button for coffee" will give you a good coffee
I don't think they'll give you a great coffee.

I'd recommend you go down the seperate espresso machine and
grinder route as it'll allow you to not only achieve better results
but will allow you to develop and enjoy the skill of making and
enjoying espresso based drinks.

RE*AC*TOR

Plus - note hshortt's nightmare experience with a super-automatic (Gaggia Titanium) on this forum.

Slaphead07

Gran Hermano wrote:

Whilst the "press one button for coffee" will give you a good coffee
I don't think they'll give you a great coffee.

As I said above... it gives a very very good cup. Frankly I can't see myself ever going back to the manual machines again and trust me... I'm a fussy f~@ker when it comes to coffee! The trick is to clean it's innards frequently... let that chore drift and you'll suddenly realise one morning your espresso is thin and watery. In my experience it's been as good as a Baby Gaggia, a Classic and a host of other decent manual coffee makers.

Slaphead07

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Plus - note hshortt's nightmare experience with a super-automatic (Gaggia Titanium) on this forum.

You don't write headlines for The Sun do you?
I looked it up and it was a 4 post thread about a machine, odered online from Italy, which arrived with a damaged button and it seems was dealt with satisfactorily... Nightmare? FFS get a grip. Is this level of hyperbole typical of this forum?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055118475&referrerid=&highlight=

RE*AC*TOR

Slaphead07 wrote:

You don't write headlines for The Sun do you?
I looked it up and it was a 4 post thread about a machine, odered online from Italy, which arrived with a damaged button and it seems was dealt with satisfactorily... Nightmare? FFS get a grip. Is this level of hyperbole typical of this forum?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055118475&referrerid=&highlight=

Do you actually sell superautomatics or something?

The person wants the best cup of coffee possible... stop bleating on about superautomatics.

billyblanks

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

To make the best possible cup of coffee you need 4 things - 4 Ms in Italy

Miscela - the blend, ie the beans. Freshly roasted is supremely important. You really want beans that have been roasted in the last week, up to 2 weeks if they've been stored really well. A few places around Dublin will supply you with Fresh beans, but they are not always convenient or cheap. Personally I roast my own. I order unroasted green coffee beans in 2kg bags for about £13 or so from hasbean.co.uk. I roast with an iRoast2.

Macinadosatore - basically the grinder. To get the most out of your fresh beans, you need to grind them immediately before use, only grind as much s you need for the coffee you need to make. The grind must be fine, but also even. To achieve this you need a conical or flat burr grinder. There are some good options out there, but you will need to spend at least €150 on this.

Macchina espresso - the machine. Basically you want something that will deliver water at about 92 degrees C at 9 bars of pressure to the coffee puck. People might think this is the most important part, but in reality its no more important. I can guarantee you that I could make better espresso with fresh beans and a good grinder on a €200 machine, than with stale beans on a €2000 machine.

Mano - the hand, your hand to be specific. You need to apply the right techniques. Find the best grind for the particular bean and your machine. Tamp the coffee with an appropriate amount of temperature, heat the cups etc etc. Froth the milk. Again, the willingness of the person operating the machine to learn the technique and improve makes huge amount of difference.


Good all round machine... Rancilio Silvia (€460) / Gaggia Classic (€340 ish) / Isomac Tea (€1000 ish)
Good all round grinder... Rancilio Rocky (€260) / Iberital MC2 (€150) / Gaggia MDF (€175) / Macap MC4 (€350) / Mazzer Mini (€600)
Roaster... iRoast2 (€180) / stove top (€50)


Generally with the above the more expensive items are also better in one or more ways. Still, going out and splashing the cash on a Mazzer Mini and an Isomac Tea would probably be overkill. If you only ever intend on making espresso based drinks then as stepless grinder would be best (ie not a Gaggia MDF), if, however, you also use french press, moka etc then a stepped grinder is a lot easier to adjust).

The Silvia has a bigger boiler than the Classic, so it has better heat retention, but the Isomac is a heat exchanger machine, so it can continuosly produce hot water or steam.

You need to find your level. Its worth having a read of the various guides over at coffeegeek.com

PS sorry for the repeated use of "he"

Ok...RE*AC*TOR covered everything there, good post.

My only advice is to go with a dual boiler/heat exchanger, I have a Silvia, great machine but I have a pain in my ass waiting for steam.

RE*AC*TOR

Gaggia Classic has steam ready to use in about 30 secs from when the button is hit. This is one of the positive things about a smaller boiler.

Slaphead07

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

stop bleating on about superautomatics.

One post pointing out they are an option and one post recommending the one I use myself. Yeah... it's a nightmare.

billyblanks

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Gaggia Classic has steam ready to use in about 30 secs from when the button is hit. This is one of the positive things about a smaller boiler.

Thats a pretty fast steam time, the Silva is about 50 sec, but still a pain, espcially if you want to pull a shot after steaming, you have to flush the tank, wait for it to re-heat....and so on. Besides with a €1500 budget I dont think she(sorry about that) has to compramise!

hshortt

Slaphead07 wrote:

You don't write headlines for The Sun do you?
I looked it up and it was a 4 post thread about a machine, odered online from Italy, which arrived with a damaged button and it seems was dealt with satisfactorily... Nightmare? FFS get a grip. Is this level of hyperbole typical of this forum?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055118475&referrerid=&highlight=

Errrmmm. - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055118827 might be better, and in my experience it was a feckin' mightmare. Believe it or not, I was only contacted last week to say the retailer had accepted the chargeback from the bank, that left me a long time with a lot of money outstanding.

Now then, moving on. I can still recommend the Ascaso Steel, it's a dual boiler machine meaning there is steam and coffee at the same time should you wish and a seperate water dispenser.

I do seem to have poor luck however, as mine is back with BT after the power LED failed and it's been there almost two weeks already.

The only good thing is that I've just come back from Italy where my average intake was 4 doubles a day.

Please take the time to consider your purchase and take a trip to BTs where there is a reasonable range of manual through fully automatic machines available and on display.

And enjoy.
Cheerio
Howard

Slaphead07

hshortt wrote:

Errrmmm. - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055118827 might be better, and in my experience it was a feckin' mightmare.

Ahhhh... a much fuller picture of what happened! Bad luck that.. very annoying with a new toy.

I'd second the Brown Thomas visit but do your homework first, the staff are very nice and very helpful but not all that well informed. House of Fraiser (Dundrum) have nice machines too, mainly Gaggia and Kitchen Aid if you're out that way.

Sorry if I snapped Reactor but my search didn't throw up the more informative thread... anyway it will happen on a coffee thread:rolleyes: