ceiling / floor expanse

aboutthehouse

We are about to start build a 2 story , approx. 3000 sq foot house. The kitchen is 8m X 8 m . will the ceiling require steel ? . Similarly will the ceiling in the rooms above need steel , as we hope over time to utilise the attic ? any recommendation on how best to manage this expanse ? .

smashey

Wasn't the spec prepared for planning? Also, what does the section show?

muffler

aboutthehouse wrote:

We are about to start build a 2 story , approx. 3000 sq foot house. The kitchen is 8m X 8 m . will the ceiling require steel ? . Similarly will the ceiling in the rooms above need steel , as we hope over time to utilise the attic ? any recommendation on how best to manage this expanse ? .

Im a bit concerned about this query. You have had 3 posts to date - 2 in relation to steel reinforcing in sub floors and now a query in relation to steel in celing/floor/roof. This forum is about debate not about specifying materials or construction methods although these may overlap or intertwine with other issues. Im concerned to the extent that you wish to have designs or recommendations given by users here. We are not here to design anything but we will offer opinions and let me repeat that - OPINIONS.

Can you answer the following:

Do you have a full set of working drawings for your project?
Who prepared your plans?- ie. architect, engineer etc.
Have you someone retained to supervise the construction?

aboutthehouse

To answer your questions :

I have a full set of plans, which were drawn up by an architect, planning approved. We have organised supervision for the build , as I am new to all this building " stuff"

I ask the question mainly as a " new timer to building " have been talking about house building with others and have had different feedback, I was hoping to help build my understanding of when items are required e.g. steel and to help me understand why i am seeing such broad variation in the answers i am getting, and to help broaden my knowledge to help me ensure i am able to ask the right questions. Knowing the right questions to ask seems to makes a huge difference. I was in no way looking for others to design anything , and apologise if it seemed that way.

muffler

aboutthehouse wrote:

To answer your questions :

I have a full set of plans, which were drawn up by an architect, planning approved. We have organised supervision for the build , as I am new to all this building " stuff"

I ask the question mainly as a " new timer to building " have been talking about house building with others and have had different feedback, I was hoping to help build my understanding of when items are required e.g. steel and to help me understand why i am seeing such broad variation in the answers i am getting, and to help broaden my knowledge to help me ensure i am able to ask the right questions. Knowing the right questions to ask seems to makes a huge difference. I was in no way looking for others to design anything , and apologise if it seemed that way.

Yes, I can understand now why you are looking for answers. But bear in mind that you have employed professional people to perform professional duties and you really should put your trust in them.

If your architect, for example, has shown steel beams at a particular point then he has done so for structural reasons. If he hasn't shown the steel at this particular point then he has concluded that it is not necessary. In this scenario you should then ask the architect if this is the correct way to proceed or ask the person supervising.

If you have a full set of working drawings it appears that you may be having doubts as to whether they are up to scratch or not. If that is the case then again you need to discuss this with your architect. If you are happy with the plans then there is no need to seek opinions elsewhere.

If you have a look through the threads in this forum you will see that a lot of individual products and construction methods are debated in some depth and a lot of varying opinions are offered on the product suitability etc. Most if not all these topics are debated in a general context. In your case you are asking for either advice or opinions on the use of steel at specific points in your new house.

Do you know the size of the monitor I have in front of me? Of course you dont and that is an unfair question for me to ask because you cant see it. This equates to users here being unable to reply to you as we cant see either your house or your plan.

We would be able to offer opinions on what type of insulation, heating system etc you should use or indeed what mix of concrete should go into your sub floors or specify the minimum head height you need at the stairs or suggest if you need planning permission or not to throw up a garage now while you are building the house. All these things are fine but we cant reply to questions of a structural nature and as a moderator of this forum I have to insist that this does not happen purely for legal reasons.

I trust you understand our position on this matter and feel free to post any other queries you have providing they are not of a structural nature specific to your proposal.

ircoha

aboutthehouse wrote:

To answer your questions :

I have a full set of plans, which were drawn up by an architect, planning approved. We have organised supervision for the build , as I am new to all this building " stuff"

I ask the question mainly as a " new timer to building " have been talking about house building with others and have had different feedback, I was hoping to help build my understanding of when items are required e.g. steel and to help me understand why i am seeing such broad variation in the answers i am getting, and to help broaden my knowledge to help me ensure i am able to ask the right questions. Knowing the right questions to ask seems to makes a huge difference. I was in no way looking for others to design anything , and apologise if it seemed that way.

I agree 100% with Muffler:
The set of plans should show clearly where the steel is required. The reason steel is used is that it allows for a a longer span while keeping the depth of section to a minimum.

If u are not happy or clear on the why and wheres of the design then ask the team of professionals you have retained.

The same spans can be achieved using what are called proprietary floor joists , other wise known as I joists
see http://www.kellytimberframe.ie/opencontent/default.asp?itemid=275&section=Kelly+Timber+Frame for example.

However they are normally deeper than a corresponding steel section.

There are pros and cons with them vs steel, and vica-versa: the big one being that the I joists are much easier to handle and can more easily accomodate services through the flange.

Whether u need steel is a question of design loads versus the span.

On general building techniques u could do worse than get some stuff from here:
http://www.homebond.ie/house_building_manual.html

for 45 euro u will learn a lot

muffler

ircoha wrote:

On general building techniques u could do worse than get some stuff from here:
http://www.homebond.ie/house_building_manual.html

for 45 euro u will learn a lot

You know if I was the DoE minister I would make it compulsory for all builders/contractors to read this book and sit a written exam on its contents before being licensed to carry out construction works. Much along the lines of the driving test scenario.

The book is worth its weight in gold and is a must for not only builders but people in the design sector and DIY'ers alike.

armchairninja

muffler wrote:

The book is worth its weight in gold and is a must for not only builders but people in the design sector and DIY'ers alike.

i have to agree with this, its on the reading list for arch tech in DIT and it is seen as a bible for the most part, very comprehensive with good diagrams etc. to explain everything., and unlike alot of building manuals which are aimed at the american market etc., this book is aimed at the irish market, meaning you wont be reading about stuff you probably will never need to know from your point of view