Ruling question.

connie147

Just a quick question to confirm a ruling that came up over the week-end.
Player in seat 9 raises to 3k,player in seat 1 calls,folded to the BB in seat 7 who also folds.The player in 9 doesnt realise seat 1 has called.He thinks he wins the blinds uncontested. He turns over an ace to show part of his raising hand when the dealer intervenes to inform him that he does indeed have a caller in seat 1.
Im called to ajudicate.I rule that the hand is played out as normal with his ace face up, and that the player in seat one can bet all streets if he likes but that the player in seat nine can only call the bets.(I know thats the rule if a player accidently exposes both his hole cards but I'm not sure the rule is exactly the same with 1 hole card exposed). Hence the question, was the ruling right?

ozpoker

According to the Tournament Director's Association rules:

Rule 31: Exposing Cards

A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand.


Even though it's difficult sometimes, it is the player's responsibility to track the action. Since the exposure was not done to gain an advantage, I would rule that the hand continues normally with the card exposed and no penalty.

-Oz-

RoundTower

I would do like ozpoker but that is partly because I really hate the rule about "can only call bets, etc".

mrflash

it seems from the rules of poker that both his cards remain live and that he can continue to bet also. after the hand ends the tournament director is in position to impose a penalty of one missed hand per player at the table. its just not covered very well in the rules.

mrflash

ok, this is the situation as explained to me. the player who exposed the card cannot raise again during the street where he exposed the card. so if its preflop and he is reraised by someone else, he has two choices which are fold or call. his rights to act return to normal after the betting on this street ends. meaning that preflop he could only call a reraise or fold, but postflop he has the right to fold, call, bet or reraise, and this continues until the end of the hand. then at the end of the hand, the tournament director may impose a penalty, which can be of missed hands per player or a time penalty away from the table.

but just so you know, all tournament director decisions are final, so in this instance, while you were not in keeping with the official rules, your decision is law at the time.

ZZR1100

I thought the player who exposes 1 or both can only call for that round of betting but continues as normal on further streets.
As we are on a rules Q.
player A goes all in .Player B asks for a count. Dealer says 3050 .Player B calls and puts in 3050 when player A then says its 4050.
What happens ??

DeVore

I heard the ruling being made but since I was a player in the tournie (at another table) I didnt want to interject. My understanding of the "usual" rules is that on the round where he exposes a card (or both) he may only call or fold (I also dont really like this rule but thats the way it works). After that the TD may choose to impose a penalty or not (depending presumably on whether they think the guy is angle-shooting or not).

Its another thing I like about the Cue Club, the f**kin' TD's (Connie and Derek) actually make an effort to learn the rules and enforce them. I cant tell you how many clubs outside Dublin* I've been in where the rules more resemble those of checkers then anything I recognise as poker....

DeV.
*not to mention a few pub games inside the Pale...

connie147

The reason I used the rule I enforced was that the very situation happenned on a Ft we were involved in at the SE a few months ago. One of my friends (the silver fox) called what he thought was an all-in and turned overe his cards. It transpired that the originasl raiser was not all-in. The TD was called and he ruled the foxs hand was live, but he could only call bets on the flop,turn and river. So I installed that rule in my club as well(much as I dont like it.) The main purpose for my question was to find out if it was the same rule for one card accidently exposed compared to 2.

While we're on it,isnt it about fcuking time that the people who are serious about running poker in Ireland got together for a day or two and thrashed out a set of rules that we could all use in uniformity. We travel to play decent tourneys with different operators, and theres always differences in the rules. Can we not sort it out?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

connie147 wrote:

While we're on it,isnt it about fcuking time that the people who are serious about running poker in Ireland got together for a day or two and thrashed out a set of rules that we could all use in uniformity. We travel to play decent tourneys with different operators, and theres always differences in the rules. Can we not sort it out?

Connie i have to say this a great idea as i have encountered numerous inaccuracies playing in different tourneys throughout Ireland. It would be great if we could standardize the rules so all players know.

JP Poker

connie147 wrote:

While we're on it,isnt it about fcuking time that the people who are serious about running poker in Ireland got together for a day or two and thrashed out a set of rules that we could all use in uniformity. We travel to play decent tourneys with different operators, and theres always differences in the rules. Can we not sort it out?

Great Idea!!

I for one would be interested.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

connie147 wrote:

While we're on it,isnt it about fcuking time that the people who are serious about running poker in Ireland got together for a day or two and thrashed out a set of rules that we could all use in uniformity. We travel to play decent tourneys with different operators, and theres always differences in the rules. Can we not sort it out?

We did that Connie u missed it ,:D


Ur ruling was fine , I would warn him for showing also he cannot raise but can call

RoundTower

If nobody likes that rule why is it used? I think it might be an English rule, I've never heard of it outside UK and Ireland.

bops

ozpoker wrote:

According to the Tournament Director's Association rules:

Rule 31: Exposing Cards

A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand.


Even though it's difficult sometimes, it is the player's responsibility to track the action. Since the exposure was not done to gain an advantage, I would rule that the hand continues normally with the card exposed and no penalty.

-Oz-

i think this is the best ruling - the players penalty is that his opponent knows one of his cards - that's enough imo

5starpool

This happened me in the EPM at the SE last year. I thought everyone had folded and showed my cards, and the ruling was that I could only call bets or fold on all streets from now on. I had not heard that ruling before but I have heard it since as well.

It was very embarrassing at the time for a couple of reasons.

1. It was the first, and last time in the whole 3 days of the event that I showed a hand I raised with that I did not have to.
2. It was against someone high profile, but the look of shock on his face was good

NickyOD

RoundTower wrote:

If nobody likes that rule why is it used? I think it might be an English rule, I've never heard of it outside UK and Ireland.

Actually I saw this ruling made in a tournament in Caesers last year.

OilBeefHooked2

While we're on the subject of rulings, can somone clarify the "show one show all" ruling. Does this mean if you show one card to the table after the hand is finished that somone can ask to see both or does it mean if you show one person your cards you have to show everyone.?

ozpoker

david-k wrote:

While we're on the subject of rulings, can somone clarify the "show one show all" ruling. Does this mean if you show one card to the table after the hand is finished that somone can ask to see both or does it mean if you show one person your cards you have to show everyone.?

It means the latter but is often misconstrued as the former.

-Oz-

5starpool

In some places, such as the Fitz, both rules are in place. Usually though, it means the latter.

ZZR1100

connie147 wrote:

The reason I used the rule I enforced was that the very situation happenned on a Ft we were involved in at the SE a few months ago. One of my friends (the silver fox) called what he thought was an all-in and turned overe his cards. It transpired that the originasl raiser was not all-in. The TD was called and he ruled the foxs hand was live, but he could only call bets on the flop,turn and river. So I installed that rule in my club as well(much as I dont like it.) The main purpose for my question was to find out if it was the same rule for one card accidently exposed compared to 2.

While we're on it,isnt it about fcuking time that the people who are serious about running poker in Ireland got together for a day or two and thrashed out a set of rules that we could all use in uniformity. We travel to play decent tourneys with different operators, and theres always differences in the rules. Can we not sort it out?

In that hand there was only 1 more bet on the flop which was called.Im not sure if the TD said call/fold on all streets.

Why not start a new thread to sort a common set of rules.All or most of the TDs are boards members. Start with these http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_booklet.htm
which are the basic and travel back through previous threads asking for rulings. Come up with an aggreed set / print / done ( and send a copy to CPT )

5starpool

I sincerely doubt starting a thread here will have any affect, however well intentioned the idea is, but feel free if you think it will.

califano

I like the current rule as it is. It will make the player who made a genuine mistake and others present learn quicker not to do it again.
Also imagine the rule was that play can go on as normal. In this hand a guy who showed the ace accidentally was a bit drunk but it was still ruled accidental. What would people think if he bluffed the guy and showed nothing then laughed his ass off at the other player. I wouldnt like that.