What do you think of this ?

opr

Hero (SB): $397
BB: $236
UTG: $299
BTN: $290

Preflop: Hero is dealt Tc Ts (4 Players)
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, BB calls $5

Flop: ($14) Jh 6s Th (2 Players)
Hero bets $13, BB raises to $38, Hero raises all-in to $390

villian 24/21/3.9/18

What are peoples thoughts on this play ?

Opr

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ocallagh

As long as you have been pushing them around, I find in those SB v BB battles we get a hero call more often than not. I don't mind it, especially at 1/2

RoundTower

It worked this time, normally I would just lead flop for most of the pot.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

As long as you show up with a lot of other stuff when you do this I like it.

he's repping a draw, so there's prob a good chance he'll get looked up reasonably light. plus there's a ton of cards that could kill the action on the turn so trying to get it in now seems like a good idea.

valor

A villain with these stats has absolutely nothing on this flop a lot of the time in my opinion. I'd love to be in position so I could call...I think I would make a smallish 3 bet that can easily be interpreted as a resteal/or give him the illusion of having folding equity on a shove. I also like a call/donk turn line because thats often read as being weak...

opr

Its a hand i took from 2+2 HSNL and is a 10/20 hand.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11639981&an=0&page=1#Post11639981

Cardshark posted the below thread a while back asking "WTF is this" ? Turned out to be a set as in the above. He thought at the end of the thread that the guy may have misclicked.
But I think shoving in these kind of situations is becoming more and more common with sets.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055127725&referrerid=&highlight=

I like this line of reasoning too.

Chaoslord wrote:

i shove here 100% of the time and its not close.
calling sucks oop and a small reraise is only good against a player so agressive that he will shove any draw or top pair anyway - which is very rare.

you get called here by top pair all day and you dont face any difficult decisions later in the hand.

I do think that all this is kinda standard and nothing earth breaking but i do see alot of people discount sets in these situations as they don't think people would usually play them like this and they call light putting them on draws.

Opr

cardshark202

Its called playing scared

opr

Meh if people are calling this light then i'll start quivering

Opr

Hectorjelly

LuckyLloyd wrote:

As long as you show up with a lot of other stuff when you do this I like it.

I dont think it doesnt matter one bit what you usually show up with here the first time you do it at a table; in fact i think this is a good play with a set but awful with a flush draw.

BuChan

Hectorjelly wrote:

I dont think it doesnt matter one bit what you usually show up with here the first time you do it at a table; in fact i think this is a good play with a set but awful with a flush draw.

something like 5h6h or Qh8h would be ok to shove right?

White Knight

BuChan wrote:

something like 5h6h or Qh8h would be ok to shove right?

2c3c might be better!

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

I dont think it doesnt matter one bit what you usually show up with here the first time you do it at a table; in fact i think this is a good play with a set but awful with a flush draw.

I think you are polarising quite a lot here. Nearly every flush draw is likely to be ~12 outs here (often more). Shoving with those AND twopair+ is great here, but you have to do it with em all.

The play is great on such a supercharged board with a set.

Hectorjelly

I was just making the point that until you get in the situation where you have played a lot of hands with thinking opponents and they have an idea of how you play certain hands, until you get to that point there is no need to balance your play and turn up with different hands in this spot. Balancing when you don't need to is as nearly a bad error as never balancing (maybe, but you get my point anyway).

Yeah the play is great with a set on this board, but not really a draw unless (as you allluded to) the draw is so big you dont mind being called a lot.

kebabfest

Is this also due to the fact your opponent will perceive you to have a draw a lot of the time when you go ALL-INSKI thus telegraphing your hand ?

opr

kebabfest wrote:

Is this also due to the fact your opponent will perceive you to have a draw a lot of the time when you go ALL-INSKI thus telegraphing your hand ?

Yes we have little FE so get looked up alot when on a draw. This is why the play is so good with a set.

Forgetting ranges , thinking , non thinking players etc for a minute the one thing that makes this play so good here is the board and its texture. I think that once you push here and your opponent looks at the board it screams draw to them.

Another great thing is once he has seen us push a set here we can start to push all sorts of stuff against him

Opr

mrflash

i would call that shove with q9 hearts or jj only. so your in good shape normally.

phantom_lord

mrflash wrote:

i would call that shove with q9 hearts or jj only. so your in good shape normally.

uh, wouldn't that not mean shoving here is bad?

mrflash

how many times are you going to run into those hands. i'd rule out jj, as with the stats of this guy, he would have probably have been raising through the roof preflop and then q9 hearts, well how many times is he going to have that hand.
theres a flush draw out there so take the pot down now.

kebabfest

opr wrote:

Yes we have little FE so get looked up alot when on a draw. This is why the play is so good with a set.

Forgetting ranges , thinking , non thinking players etc for a minute the one thing that makes this play so good here is the board and its texture. I think that once you push here and your opponent looks at the board it screams draw to them.

Another great thing is once he has seen us push a set here we can start to push all sorts of stuff against him

Opr

Saw this employed by a lad a couple of weeks ago. He hit 3 sets on the trot and done this. He got looked up a couple of times and the other time he showed.
The forth time he did he did he scooped a decent one and did it with AIR.
The only thing I didnt like about his play was the showing of the cards.

Hectorjelly

mrflash wrote:

i would call that shove with q9 hearts or jj only. so your in good shape normally.

I have a new avatar for you mr flash!

cardshark202

Brilliant

LuckyLloyd

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robinlacey

i think this shove might be good at 10/20,but only with some history,and at 1/2 im not sure that i like it.

the trouble is that such a large percentage of villain's range is draws,and once you shove you make it easy for him to get away from his draw.

bops

mrflash wrote:

how many times are you going to run into those hands. i'd rule out jj, as with the stats of this guy, he would have probably have been raising through the roof preflop and then q9 hearts, well how many times is he going to have that hand.
theres a flush draw out there so take the pot down now.

...i think the whole point of the op's push is he wants to be looked up...

i like the name mr wrong - i think i'll open up a new acc