3 bet all in with air postflop

NickyOD

300+30 game in Drogheda. Blinds 100/200. I have about 14.5K at the start of the hand. I haven't played too many hands but I doubt I'm percieved as tight by the table. The table in general has been playing pretty tight IMO.

We are 8 handed. Second position limps in, button limps. I make to 1000 from the SB with ATo. The EP player calls me pretty quickly which I'm a little surprised by and the button folds. EP has limped in to quite a few pots even from early position. I'm not entirely certain what his range is but with the limper in between I'm ruling out QQ-AA and AK.

The flop is Q-5-6r. I lead for 1500. He makes it 3500 with absolutely no hesitation. He has about 7 or 8K behind.

I shove representing AA/KK and I'm confident I'm not trying to get him off AQ.

Thoughts?

Macspower

If you think he will fold KQ I kinda like the move... but I'm afraid of 55 or 66 with the limp/call in EP... they are really the only hands that he should call with

cooker3

Macspower wrote:

If you think he will fold KQ I kinda like the move... but I'm afraid of 55 or 66 with the limp/call in EP... they are really the only hands that he should call with

Yeah but would Nicky actually do this with aces or kings. He has position, if I was the villain I would suspect he would likely call and try to extract more money on later streets rather then try to push me off the hand which is what it looks like. This would make me want to call with any queen pretty much in this spot.

valor

on a small point - its a 3 bet, not a 4 bet

Mr.Plough

looks like a 4bet to me

Flushdraw

Its a 3bet...count them!

Macspower

Mr.Plough wrote:

looks like a 4bet to me

I go with Valor on this

Mr.Plough

lol im retarded, was thinking in pf terms

cardshark202

Mr.Plough wrote:

lol im retarded, was thinking in pf terms

QFT

RoundTower

valor wrote:

on a small point - its a 3 bet, not a 4 bet

I thought this might be a small joke. All the time here people write "raise" for "bet" and "reraise" for raise.

hotspur

NickyOD wrote:

I'm confident I'm not trying to get him off AQ.

Why?

Goodluck2me

hotspur wrote:

Why?

he doubts the player is good enough to fold it?

NickyOD

hotspur wrote:

Why?

Funnily enough I did ask myself the same question at the time. His raise really annoyed me. I really felt that whatever he had in his hand, he limped in pre-flop with no real plan for how to play it. With the speed of his actions and the size of the raise I just couldn't think he was even as strong as TPTK. It reaked of a "raise to see where I'm at". I felt at best it was KQ but most likely a PP 88-JJ.

NickyOD

cooker3 wrote:

Yeah but would Nicky actually do this with aces or kings. He has position, if I was the villain I would suspect he would likely call and try to extract more money on later streets rather then try to push me off the hand which is what it looks like. This would make me want to call with any queen pretty much in this spot.

You're right, a lot of the time I would just call, not always though. Even so, calling me with any Queen would be incredibly ballsy here with the amount of strength I've shown, even if you know my game really well. If you will call with any Queen then by the same logic you should probably also call with 99.

Wombatman

The move is v. aggressive but I think +EV against a solid player. Yet these type of plays are costing me lately.

Why? The donk factor. I make the mistake of thinking that villains are going to play the hand like a good player would. This has happened already in this thread. There are not many donks at this buy in level but there are a few. Warning sign is limp frequency.

Donk could have called raise pre with 56, A6, A5, KQ, JQ 78, 55, 66 or better.

I don't think you will get a donk off the queen. The donk will have a good think about it, say what the f*ck and call.

Gholimoli

villain is getting better than 2:1 on his money so folding any sort of Q there is really bad IMO.
some posts here indicated that it takes a good player to laydown a Q here but it's the complete oposit.
i do this move quite alot Nicky but i rather if the board was lower.
i dont think any half decent player is laying down a Q there and a Q is deffo in his range.

but if you have some read on him(like you said his reraise for example) that tells you he is not likely to have a Q then its fine.
i agree the bet looks like "raise to see where im at " kind of bet.

Bandara

NickyOD wrote:

You're right, a lot of the time I would just call, not always though. Even so, calling me with any Queen would be incredibly ballsy here with the amount of strength I've shown, even if you know my game really well. If you will call with any Queen then by the same logic you should probably also call with 99.

Nicky this might sound a bit silly but your thinking of what his is thinking may be irrelevant, the villian may actually not be looking/thinking about anything other than his own hand. The guy could be fumbling aloing and just can't allow himself to fold. Could be a case that we picked the wrong person to make the move on.

If thats the case I can see you being called here with the likes of Q10 (sooted of course), remember there are several sats into this game and its quite possible your playing a 'novice' (for want of a better word) who is not going to get the finer nuances of how the hand is playing out.

NickyOD

It's pointless even thinking about what a good player does with TP here because A good player would never limp call OR raise the flop with any unpaired hand with a Q in it.

Anyway If I thought he had TP a significant amount of the time here I would never try to pull this move.

BTW the villain is a boardsie but I won't say who.

NickyOD

Gholimoli wrote:

i do this move quite alot Nicky but i rather if the board was lower.

Why is a lower flop better?

smurph

It was a good move by you, but I do think that showing the hand at the wasn't the best move to make.....
just my 10cents anyway, although I can't hold my play up for any scrutiny on Sunday at all. I played like a baby.

NickyOD

smurph wrote:

It was a good move by you, but I do think that showing the hand at the wasn't the best move to make.....
just my 10cents anyway, although I can't hold my play up for any scrutiny on Sunday at all. I played like a baby.

Totally agree with you. Should never have showed. It was rude and bad for my image. It was like the second live tournament I'd played in 6 months and it felt so good to pull the trigger that I couldn't resist showing.

looserock

So, one played like a donkey and the other acted like an ass!

valor

I like this play btw

Moro Man

NickyOD wrote:

300+30 game in Drogheda. Blinds 100/200. I have about 14.5K at the start of the hand. I haven't played too many hands but I doubt I'm percieved as tight by the table. The table in general has been playing pretty tight IMO.

We are 8 handed. Second position limps in, button limps. 1.I make to 1000 from the SB with ATo. The EP player calls me pretty quickly which I'm a little surprised by and the button folds. EP has limped in to quite a few pots even from early position. I'm not entirely certain what his range is but with the limper in between I'm ruling out 2.QQ-AA and AK.

The flop is Q-5-6r. I lead for 1500. He makes it 3500 with absolutely no hesitation. He has about 7 or 8K behind.

I shove representing AA/KK and I'm confident I'm not trying to get him off AQ.

Thoughts?

1. Out of position raise with crap! Why Bother? make the blind up, see the flop and still have 14.5k. No need to dig a hole and then keep trying to make it bigger:)

2. His reraise probably rules out QQ, and maybe also KK and AA.

Generally IMO the reraise on a Q65 r flop is probably 666 or 555 against alot of players, and If it is you're out the door. If it isn't you've picked up 6k from him plus 400 from the button and the BB.

Risk 14.5 to get 6.4 you would need to be right around 3 times in four or five to make this move pay off.

It may be a better play in the long run to check raise and put the gun in his hand.

By the way I presume from smurph's post he folded and you showed a bluff:mad:

sikes

It is a great flop for this.

cardshark202

I think this is a good play but should be used very occasionally

Goodluck2me

NickyOD wrote:

BTW the villain is a boardsie but I won't say who.

You obv have to say who it is now...

Also what was the outcome of the hand?

NickyOD

Moro Man wrote:

1. Out of position raise with crap! Why Bother? make the blind up, see the flop and still have 14.5k. No need to dig a hole and then keep trying to make it bigger:)

I said n the OP that the table was playing tight. On a loose table I just complete every time. On a tight table I look at this hand and think if I can't be the aggressor then what's the point of playing it at all. So what if I'm OOP. What do you do with AJ, AQ, AK in this spot? Are they really that much different from ATo on a tight table or even any 2 cards higher than a 9? The truth is they are not. I play it aggressively because there is a good chance I can win the pot preflop or get heads up and I don't necessarily need to hit the flop.

If you only raise with big pairs from the blinds then just how would you ever get paid off with them?

goodluck2me wrote:

Also what was the outcome of the hand?

He folded and said he had Jacks.

valor

If you only raise with big pairs from the blinds then just how would you ever get paid off with them?

I think preflop is fine but the answer to this is that people are bad at poker

Gholimoli

a lower flop is better IMO because it allows you to represent alot more hands and also its less likely to have hit a tight player who is limp calling a raise from EP.

Ace2007

smurph wrote:

I played like a typically woman.

FYP

Scouser in Dub

Gholimoli wrote:

a lower flop is better IMO because it allows you to represent alot more hands and also its less likely to have hit a tight player who is limp calling a raise from EP.

are you not more likely to get someone to fold a medium high pair when there are overcards on the flop?

NickyOD

Scouser in Dub wrote:

are you not more likely to get someone to fold a medium high pair when there are overcards on the flop?

That's what I was thinking. If the flop is 7 high and I thought the guy had 88 I would never try to get him to fold it not even on a rainbow flop.