shannon-aer lingus-rte

pjproby

i get the distinct impression that rte are launching a major campaign in favour of aer lingus staying in shannon-i am bewildered by their excessive coverage of this story. i wonder what is the sub text, or is it one state agency supporting another? an hour devoted to the subject on the rachel english show this saturday morning was the final straw.

mike65

Had'nt notice a plot, though yes its getting alot of coverage. I guess one clue to attitude was a hilarious exclamation by Tom McGurk on Friday - which essentially went "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!!!!!!!!!" as he banged on about how Aer Lingus and Ireland have grown together and how its part of our culture blah blah blah. I'm not sure he actualy belived what he was saying.

I suspect at the end of the day it pushes the right buttons. Shannon (in the poor wesht!), national carrier culture, evil privatisation (RTE is statist), Norn Iron peace dividend 'taking our jobs'.

Mike.

flogen

I think it should be remembered that we're in the middle of silly season too.

This would have been a pretty big story no matter when it broke but the fact that it has little competition on a national level means the media are going to be all over it a bit more than they might otherwise have been.

pjproby

tom mcgurk going on about our "national airline" really hit a sore point with me. i
never felt it was my national airline. if memory serves me right aer lingus and british airways once had a monopoly on the dublin heathrow route and charged such high prices that they effectively prevented people who could not afford it from flying.

mike65

Yep in 1982 you spent 200 olde pounds (or about 2 weeks wages for a manual worker) to cross the sea.

Mike.

banaman

The one that gets me is the Bishops saying that Air LIngus should fulfill its moral duty to the people.
That 's a bit rich considering how much the church considered its moral duty to compensate all those abused by its employees.
Bloody hypocrites.

Aer lingus is a private company, Therefore its only moral duty is to its shareholders and to obey the laws of the state in which it is registered.

We have, allegedly, a free-market, free-trade economy so when a private company makes a commercial decision that's the way it goes. Don't remember much whingeing when companies move in. Now one is moving out, c'est la vie.


Grow up and stop whingeing, or vote socialist.

Jackie laughlin

It is a serious issue and the coverage, while it may be extensive, is inadequate. It should be a vehicle for a discussion about market forces and public service. I find it fantastic that people who supported floating Aer Lingus now want it to have social obligations.

Don't get me started on this competition nonsense. If a company can make more money by reducing prices, it will do so. Competition doesn't necessarily come into it. Moreover, competition can exert an UPWARD pressure on prices, e.g. Aer Lingus have seen that Ryanair can get away with baggage charges, so they do it too.

constitutionus

well its a private company now so its not really one semi state supporting another.

personally i think its just a combination of the admitetly large scale level of the story and the fact its the silly season. honestly what the hell else has happened in the last while to garner attention at a local level?

plus, whether its conscious or unconscious, the media does seemed to have picked up on the fact theres a very good chance the government will be made to look like planks over this. much has been made about it being a comercial decision to move the slots but ultimately a company is beholden to its shareholders . usually its a bunch of money grabbing banks who'd happily sell out the entire country but in its infinete wisdom the single largest shareholder in AL is.......the irish government. and that means on a comercial share holder basis , not a political one, the government have clout in this issue and can step in "in the national interest". which is the whole bloody reason they maintained they retained the shares.

chuck in micheal o leary calling an emergency AGM and claiming to throw in his lot with bertie (whom has ignored him so far) and youve got a ready made media frenzy in the making. watch this space. when the AGM is called the government will be stuck in either the position of joining up with ryanair.....supporting the move and looking like heartless capitalists..... or abstaining and making oleary look like the saviour of shannon if the esot join up with him.

there is a **** load of fun to be had in this issue and the media is simply going to milk it for all its worth.

after all its not every day you get backbencher revolt, a split cabinet, a missing suddenly mute taoiseach, IBEC and SIPTU in the same bed as micheal oleary and bertie ahern and an embarressed government all tied up in one little bundle that anyone who knows anything about privatisation couldve seen a mile off.

trust me this one'll run . at least for the next 20 days till the AGM and then god knows how long on what happens there.:D

Crea

The thing i am wondering about is that AL lease 2 slots in Heathrow to other airlines so there was no reason to pull out of Shannon. They could have just given the leased slots to Belfast.
What gets to me is that up until last year (?) this was a company funded by the Irish taxpayer. Now those taxpayers are being shafted and the business is put into an area which has never contributed a single tax cent to the airline.
I used to work in logistics in the affected area and virtually all airfreight coming from the Far East (where most parts come from now) came into Shannon via Heathrow. Adding an additional 3-4 hours onto delivery times can sometimes be critical. To say that it won't affect business is just ignorance.

flogen

Crea wrote:

The thing i am wondering about is that AL lease 2 slots in Heathrow to other airlines so there was no reason to pull out of Shannon. They could have just given the leased slots to Belfast.

That's true although I imagine AL looked at this from a cost-benefit perspective. To operate both slots at once they'd need more planes and staff which would be a huge initial cost. They'd probably also need to cancel lease agreements with other companies, which would mean buying out contracts. Shannon-Heathrow is profitable but is it profitable enough?

What gets to me is that up until last year (?) this was a company funded by the Irish taxpayer. Now those taxpayers are being shafted and the business is put into an area which has never contributed a single tax cent to the airline.

That's not entirely true - AL has been profitable for a few years now so it has actually being contributing to the coffers rather than taking from it.
But this is what happens when a semi-state goes private.
Look at it this way, a company's job is to do right by its shareholders. Usually this means big profit but when it's a semi-state the shareholders (you and I, via a Gov minister) want the service to come before the profit. Now that the majority of the airline is privately held the job of AL has changed from public service to profit maximiser.

I used to work in logistics in the affected area and virtually all airfreight coming from the Far East (where most parts come from now) came into Shannon via Heathrow. Adding an additional 3-4 hours onto delivery times can sometimes be critical. To say that it won't affect business is just ignorance.

I don't think there's any doubt that business will be effected but it's a dangerous move to stop AL from doing this without addressing the reasons why they are. We can't wrap ourselves up in cotton wool and bail people out who aren't competing on a global field.

I do think the suggestion of replacing the route with a Shannon-Amsterdam one is funny, though - sure it'll make some money but it won't do f*ck all for the businesses in the region who badly need the link to Heathrow.

Bomany

There is a silver lining to every cloud. The silver lining to the Shannon/Belfast debate is to have Willie O'Dea on our airwaves. The man is priceless. If a novelist created him the character would be described as a grotesque caricature of an Irish politician. The man is a small town politician par excellance. This man was in the cabinet which pushed through the privatisation of Aer Lingus and now he is out shouting the odds about the evils of a private company taking decisions based on market realities. As I said priceless. Whenever he comes on the airwaves he gives more entertainment to the nation than the entire weekly output of TV3- admittedly a rather easy thing to do. The man is a national treasure. Limerick should put him on a statue holding a gun (or should that be a knife)?

Bomany

There is a silver lining to every cloud. The silver lining to the Shannon/Belfast debate is to have Willie O'Dea on our airwaves. The man is priceless. If a novelist created him the character would be described as a grotesque caricature of an Irish politician. The man is a Soldier of Destiny politician par excellance. This man was in the cabinet which pushed through the privatisation of Aer Lingus and now he is out shouting the odds about the evils of a private company taking decisions based on market realities. As I said priceless. Whenever he comes on the airwaves he gives more entertainment to the nation than the entire weekly output of TV3- admittedly a rather easy thing to do. The man is a national treasure. Limerick should put this soldier of destiny on a statue holding a gun (or should that be a knife)?

Snickers Man

mike65 wrote:

Yep in 1982 you spent 200 olde pounds (or about 2 weeks wages for a manual worker) to cross the sea.

Mike.

Don't stop there. How much did a PC cost in 1982? Even a crappy little one with no hard disk and a poxy black and white screen?

How about mobile phones? Except they weren't called mobile phones then; they were called car phones. They had to be welded to your car battery but they did allow you to call while on the move. How many teenagers had one of those in 1982?

Airline prices long ago weren't just about cosseted nationalised businesses with overactive trade unions.

Snickers Man

flogen wrote:

I do think the suggestion of replacing the route with a Shannon-Amsterdam one is funny, though - sure it'll make some money but it won't do f*ck all for the businesses in the region who badly need the link to Heathrow.

Why is that?

The argument about Heathrow is that the link is vital, not in itself but for the fact that it is a major hub with connections to just about anywhere else in the globe.

So is Schiphol. And it's a much better run more efficient and better integrated airport than Heathrow, which is an overcrowded congested hovel.

I remember talking to an executive from a leading multinational in the Limerick region (granted it was some time ago now in the early 1990s) and he was complaining that the worst thing about Limerick was its dependence on what he called "the scummiest airline in the world" ie Aer Lingus. No discounts worthy of mention, no early morning connection to Heathrow, ultra expensive transAtlantic flights which made it more cost-effective to fly to the US via London, etc etc

So it seems that even then some business people were blaming Aer Lingus for their problems. Well now they don't have Aer Lingus to kick around any more.

This could be a blessing in disguise for the South West if they play their cards right. If there is a viable business to be had connecting Shannon to a major European hub, like CDG or Schiphol, then somebody will step in to do it. But if the only time they fill the plane is when Munster are playng a Heineken Cup match in France then you can be pretty sure it won't last.

Ball's in their court.

flogen

Well the impression I keep getting from what businesses in the area are saying is that they need the link to London; not because it's a hub to the rest of the world but because London is the biggest player in European market.

Fair point, though, if they're looking for general connectivity they could do worse than Amsterdam, although I don't think it's as well connected as Heathrow is (for all its major faults).

I think it is a blessing in disguise, though, at least in the sense that it will force Shannon Airport to think in far more business-like terms rather than relying on the Government to bail them out. It might also press home the need for them to become more airline-neutral in terms of their dependence so that if any one service shuts up shop tomorrow they won't collapse because of it.

jdivision

It's a completely overrated story. 76 per cent of all AL passengers flying Shannon-Heathrow are going to London. Fly to Gatwick with Ryanair instead. What's the big deal? Or is it that people consider themselves too posh to fly Ryanair. This thing of the effect on the poor West is nonsense. The airport has been propped up for years, it then went out of its way to attract a low budget carrier to compete with AL on the London route. AL's profits drop as a result so it moves. That's what happens on nearly every route Ryanair competes with anybody on - see easyJet and Go from Dublin for example. The airport should have known it was going to happen but there was too many people cheerleading for the low cost hub that Shannon marketed itself as.

mkem

I think they have little else to talk about, No wars, no earth quakes etc.. so they are doing s sky news on it - Hype it up to the last. So what if aerlingus pull out, we'll get a low cost carrier in there who will slog it out with Ryanair.

heyjude

Snickers Man wrote:

Don't stop there. How much did a PC cost in 1982? Even a crappy little one with no hard disk and a poxy black and white screen?

How about mobile phones? Except they weren't called mobile phones then; they were called car phones. They had to be welded to your car battery but they did allow you to call while on the move. How many teenagers had one of those in 1982?

Airline prices long ago weren't just about cosseted nationalised businesses with overactive trade unions.

PCs and Mobile phones were new products way back then and so cost a fortune compared to today. Remember maybe 4-5 years ago a DVD player cost hundreds and now a cheap one can be bought for under €50.New products always cost a fortune when they are first launched and then they come down over time. Flying to London was a different story, Aer Lingus and BA said they couldn't charge less(when they had a monopoly on the route), then Ryanair appears, we have competition and prices fall.

Deflector

On the question originally asked, this is a classic case of RTÉ inflating a regional story to prove its commitment to the 'rest of the country'. It does this especially during the summer season, perhaps uncoincidentally because it also eases pressure on the skeleton holiday staff in Montrose.

But regardless of time of year, if a regional story can be artificially inflated for maximum commitment-effect, it'll be done. I don't blame them: if I was a news editor or in management I'd do exactly the same, especially in summer, given the political sensitivities of 'the regional issue'. Regional coverage is difficult with limited resources, and frankly not nearly as necessary as people usually make it out to be anyway - we're an island of just over four million for fecks sake. I don't think Aer Lingus is being blown out of the water by RTÉ, but is certainly being massaged for the desired effect - and also in fairness an element of the silly season in it too. Any potential 'saga story' in summer will be quickly detected and exploited by all broadcasters.

Boggle

IBEC and SIPTU in the same bed as micheal oleary

I think O'Leary was only on to rub in how much more money Aer Lingus would make if he ran it - ie that he could manipulate the routes to keep the profitable Shannon route AND have the Belfast route to boot. Don't forget he hasn't given up on owning the airline and he wants to make damn sure that everyone knows that if he controlled the company then it'd be worth more. (Didn't hurt that he could also show up the idiots in govt!!:D )

He couldn't help himself with the unions though... what was it he said about the pilots?? Overpaid? Underworked? He knows they have to back him - he also knows it'll really hurt them to do so and I reckon he's getting some sort of sick twisted pleasure out of it....

Snickers Man

heyjude wrote:

PCs and Mobile phones were new products way back then and so cost a fortune compared to today. Remember maybe 4-5 years ago a DVD player cost hundreds and now a cheap one can be bought for under €50.New products always cost a fortune when they are first launched and then they come down over time. Flying to London was a different story, Aer Lingus and BA said they couldn't charge less(when they had a monopoly on the route), then Ryanair appears, we have competition and prices fall.

Precisely my point.

It took millions of pounds and years of investment to build the infrastructure that made modern commercial flight possible. Airports, runways, control towers, radar, radio, massive co-ordination. What did the likes of Ryanair contribute to that? Nothing except a regular whinge about how expensive airport charges are.

Air travel is a maturing industry. O'Leary is an opportunist who was in the right place at the right time and had the balls to see the opportunity and go for it. No need to thank him for it any more than buying his tickets every now and again.

Snickers Man

Deflector wrote:

On the question originally asked, this is a classic case of RTÉ inflating a regional story to prove its commitment to the 'rest of the country'. It does this especially during the summer season, perhaps uncoincidentally because it also eases pressure on the skeleton holiday staff in Montrose.

Mind you, they did show on Friday night how ridiculously unimportant the story is in the aviation world by pointing out that Flight International, one of the leading aviation industry mags, was not bothering with the story at all.

And its leading rent-a-quote David Learmount, the guy who is ALWAYS on the telly following a major aviation news story, was at his supercillious best saying that Shannon's attitude was ridiculous, Heathrow is an overcrowded congested dump, you should be glad to get rid of it, there are much better alternatives elsewhere and the people in Shannon are all behaving like spoilt children.

He's dead right, of course.

click the "Gareth O'connor reports from London" link on the hyperlink above to check it out.