Casinos, slot machines and the law...

gerry87

Does anybody know about the legalities of the casinos around Ireland?

What laws do casino's operate under? I know they operate as private members clubs, but what does that actually mean for them, do they have to run differently than a business? What sort of permission do they need, does the council have to approve them to run as private members clubs, or do they just set up and go?

I've seen a new club in Dublin which has of slot machines around, as well as roulette and blackjack machines, are there ways slot machines can operate in Ireland? i.e. are there types of machines that are essentially slot machines, but aren't legally slot machines.

Any info appreciated, thanks.

gerry

hotspur

Casinos are illegal in Ireland. The private members' club thing is at best a loophole and at worst not really a loophole at all - that's a matter of legal opinion. My view is that all these private members' clubs ioerating as casinos are strictly illegal in their operation, however the punishments for illegal gaming are pretty much a joke and based on anachronistic legislation.

If you wish to read the legislation for yourself then read the 1956 gaming & lotteries act and ammendments here:
http://tinyurl.com/3dps2v

Slot machines are not illegal in Ireland per se. These new casinos popping up in Dublin which have them are really amusement hall kips which are legally allowed to have them. I don't think there is a real definition of a slot machine in our legislation and there was a period in the 70's when a loophole was created with a Supreme Court decision which meant that slot machines that paid out directly to the player were not considered illegal in places where otherwise they would be.

There are about 10,000 gaming machines in the country making over €2m a year. Licenses for these machines cost sod all. However there are restrictions on the max costs and payouts, recently updated to €5 cost and €30 payout.

I'm not familiar with any legislation relating to operating a private members' club, just setting them appears to be the modus operandi.

We are awaiting new casino legislation at the moment, and I've heard some things I don't like, but I'm not going to speculate on it before it's in the public domain.

Why are you considering setting one up or something?

gerry87

Thanks for the reply.

Considering is such a strong word... i'm just trying to find out the lie of the land before even considering it. At the moment i'm about 500/1 to get there (It's not in Dublin)

I know legislation wise it's a murky time, but i'm still not too sure what a realistic worst case scenario is or if it would be easier to set up now and adapt to legislation rather than trying to set up after new legislation.

There are about 10,000 gaming machines in the country making over €2m a year

Could you clarify that please, do you mean there are only 10,000 in the country and all together they are making over 2m? i.e. €200 per machine per year. Where could i find this sort of information?

Are you affiliated with any casinos?

hotspur

Well outside of Dublin is a good thing, especially if it's outside a major city but in a town with a population over a certain number. Setting up now before the legislation may actually turn out to be a good idea.

Yeah we only have about 10k machines in the country, a bit less I think, and they made €2m for the last year of records I've seen which was for 2005. That's not a lot of money, although bear in mind that the limits have increased since then. There is an association here for gaming mahinces called the Irish Gaming & Amusement Association. Contact info here:
http://tinyurl.com/2c8jhc
You can read reports on Ireland's gaming machine stats from Euromat:
http://www.euromat.org/

But slots are not where it's at in this country if you want to make money, the stakes are too small. The US casino model doesn't apply here in this respect.

No I'm not affiliated with any casino.

gerry87

Again, thanks for those links.

I read that report on the Euromat page, it must be the one you read as it's from 2004.

In 2004 there were 9,229 Gaming Machine licences yielding EUR 2,337,600; 6,550
Amusement Machine licences yielding EUR 795,827 and 109 Gaming (Premises)
licences, yielding EUR 62, 590.

It's not really clear, but could that mean machine licences amounted to 2m, so the owners had to pay 200 for the year to run the machine?

I know what you mean about the american casino model and if i was doing it i wouldn't like it to become an arcade, just an addition to the other services.

I'm really at the research stage at the moment, and it seems to be a hard industry to research.

mcaul

New casino legislation should be published in October.

It has been compiled in association with the Gaming & Leisure Association. Nothing major in it except tidying up all the grey areas and put some rules & regulations in place. Expect the same conditions as per pub / betting licence. Good character, Tax clearance, Garda clearance, etc etc.

If running a tournament, you must be afiliated to a licenced cardroom.

Cardrooms will not be permitted to have electronic gaming machines.

That seems to be the general gist of things.

Oh yeah - if you need tables we'll have 14 different types from 6 seaters to 12 seaters, poker/ roulette / blackjack leather surounds, solid wood etc etc.