4 bet with ATo

cooker3

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $68.95
BB: $77.60
UTG: $6.70
hero (BTN): $134.20

Reads: I have been aggressive, 24/19/5 over about 200 hands with my steal % at 40
Villain is 39/36/2 over 100 hands

So far, I have 4 bet him and he he has folded and 3 betted him and he has folded.
I imagine his 3 bet range is wide enough

Preflop: hero is dealt A T (4 Players)
UTG folds, hero raises to $2.00, SB calls $1.75, BB raises to $9.00, hero raises to $21.00, SB folds, BB calls $12.00

Flop: ($44) Q A 6 (2 Players)
BB checks, hero checks

Turn: ($44) Q A 6 8 (2 Players)
BB checks, hero checks

River: ($44) Q A 6 8 T (2 Players)
BB bets $28.50

Pot Size: $72.50

I didn't bet the flop or turn as I only see myself being called by a better hand.
Has playing it so weak induced a bluff of sorts which forces me to call?

Hectorjelly

lol, you have 2 pair. Insta call

kebabfest

Overall you crush his range. Now his range does include AQ & 10 10 , but this shouldnt stop you from calling.
Also as you stated it could simply be a river steal

cooker3

Does anyone raise here?
Any comments on my 4 bet also

TheRock

I dont get the 4 bet for a number or reasons;
1; Its a marginal hand ( he pushes/raises again you have to drop it)
2; If your intention was the get him to fold the bet wasn't anyway near enough, he only has to call 12 into a 34 pot, nearly 3:1, he's not dropping anything. Your only building the pot with a marginal hand and still not knowing where you stand if an ace comes.
3; If you call the 9 you have position on the flop.
But maybe I'm missing something

Dont really get the checks on the flop & turn either, you hit your ace, you've got to bet it. OK, perhaps he was looking to C/R the flop, but when he checks the turn, you've got to try get some money in.

As it played out instacall, wouldn't raise as your definitely only called when beat.

ianmc38

Easy call. Looks well played to me.

BigCityBanker

easy call - i bet the turn there nearly 100% of the time - is this wrong?

fuzzbox

shove the river.

ollyk1

BigCityBanker wrote:

easy call - i bet the turn there nearly 100% of the time - is this wrong?

And do you fold if the BB shoves??? BB only has $56.60 behind and you are going to bet how much on the turn exactly into a $44 pot???

I'm not a fan of the 4 bet preflop. I like the flop and turn check. River has to be an instacall. Sick if he has KJ though

BigCityBanker

ollyk1 wrote:

And do you fold if the BB shoves??? BB only has $56.60 behind and you are going to bet how much on the turn exactly into a $44 pot???

I'm not a fan of the 4 bet preflop. I like the flop and turn check. River has to be an instacall. Sick if he has KJ though

KJ is in this case the nuts . If i bet the turn I call a shove in this spot as I expect to be ahead enough of the time. It is often more of an angry shove from KK than anything else who takes my bet at the pot to be one which has accepted the invite to take it down there and then having been checked to twice. I think most villians will 5 bet shove with AK pre here whilst they call with AA and KK. His line is too passive post flop for AA. It looks like KK to me or possibly even JJ.

ollyk1

BigCityBanker wrote:

KJ is in this case the nuts . If i bet the turn I call a shove in this spot as I expect to be ahead enough of the time. It is often more of an angry shove from KK than anything else who takes my bet at the pot to be one which has accepted the invite to take it down there and then having been checked to twice. I think most villians will 5 bet shove with AK pre here whilst they call with AA and KK. His line is too passive post flop for AA. It looks like KK to me or possibly even JJ.

So you bet and you hope to get sufficient value from KK angry shoves or JJ :eek: and you are going to disregard AQ or QQ instead of checking behind and let the guy check call a bet on the river with a bad ace or KK where he's chasing a 2 or 3 outer.....

I think checking the turn is better tbh.

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

shove the river.

Yes I thought about this. Im not 100% sure though. How often will he call with worse on the river though? Or even show up with worse? I think just calling is best.

ianmc38

cardshark202 wrote:

Yes I thought about this. Im not 100% sure though. How often will he call with worse on the river though? Or even show up with worse? I think just calling is best.

Agree. Dont like a river shove. He's not gonna call with very many worse hands and there's a good chance we're already beat.

fuzzbox

cardshark202 wrote:

Yes I thought about this. Im not 100% sure though. How often will he call with worse on the river though? Or even show up with worse? I think just calling is best.

If you dont raise then he will never call with a worse hand.

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

If you dont raise then he will never call with a worse hand.

He will never call with a better hand either though.

BigCityBanker

cardshark202 wrote:

He will never call with a better hand either though.

wtf?

Macspower

not a great fan of the 4 bet here... although I've done it too.... If you decide to 4 bet him it's to get him to fold here... your bet is not strong enough for this... make it 35? but if you decide to 4 bet you may be prepared to call a push...

I prefer a call of his 3 bet of your continuing with the hand... take this for example...

you call his 9... you have position...
flop comes and he leads for say 16.. you call... re-eval the turn... if he leads again prepare to fold..... if he checks check behind and call/maybe raise river..

this IMO puts you in a better situation in the hand..... some might not like it though...opinions?

Played as is ... call

Mac

luckylucky

cardshark202 wrote:

He will never call with a better hand either though.

Not saying just calling is wrong, haven't made up my mind on it. But there's plenty of players who will call a shove with worse hands than our hero's two pair.

ianmc38

luckylucky wrote:

Not saying just calling is wrong, haven't made up my mind on it. But there's plenty of players who will call a shove with worse hands than our hero's two pair.

AK/AJ are the only realistic hands that can have gotten to this situation that may call a shove. I would fully expect the guy oop to bet eithe rflop or turn with both of those holdings.

More realistically, he has a slowplayed set, AQ, KK or the rivered nuts which is a range that crushes ours. The only hand that will fold to a raise is KK and we will never get AQ or a set to fold, hence why calling here is probably best.

cardshark202

Macspower wrote:

not a great fan of the 4 bet here... although I've done it too.... If you decide to 4 bet him it's to get him to fold here... your bet is not strong enough for this... make it 35? but if you decide to 4 bet you may be prepared to call a push...

I prefer a call of his 3 bet of your continuing with the hand... take this for example...

you call his 9... you have position...
flop comes and he leads for say 16.. you call... re-eval the turn... if he leads again prepare to fold..... if he checks check behind and call/maybe raise river..

this IMO puts you in a better situation in the hand..... some might not like it though...opinions?

Played as is ... call

Mac

God no calling a 3bet with ATo is generally awful.

ianmc38

yeah i much prefer the 4 bet here. Cold calling a 3bet with ATo and 100bb stacks albeit in position is going to cost you money.

luckylucky

ianmc38 wrote:

AK/AJ are the only realistic hands that can have gotten to this situation that may call a shove. I would fully expect the guy oop to bet eithe rflop or turn with both of those holdings.

More realistically, he has a slowplayed set, AQ, KK or the rivered nuts which is a range that crushes ours. The only hand that will fold to a raise is KK and we will never get AQ or a set to fold, hence why calling here is probably best.

Realistic yes, but how realistic is a guy playing 39/36/2 !

Still just calling is probably right, but I'm gettin a bit piddled on 16 cent portuguese beer at the mo to be sure

Macspower

ianmc38 wrote:

yeah i much prefer the 4 bet here. Cold calling a 3bet with ATo and 100bb stacks albeit in position is going to cost you money.

Just throwing it into the mix... but I still prefer it to 4betting to 21 or whatever it was....

It was something I never would have done but recent post by Robin Lacey on the subject had me experimenting and I've had mixed success.....

valor

yeah that post where Robin said to call 3 bets with A10o was a good'un

Captain Tom

i kinda want to push but calling is best.

Macspower

you know and I know Valor that it was the principle not the hand..... calling in position as opposed to 4 betting.... anyway not getting into it....

I would prob fold to his 3 bet in reality just mixing it up a bit...

cardshark202

valor wrote:

yeah that post where Robin said to call 3 bets with A10o was a good'un

lol

cooker3

In relation to the size of the 4 bet. My 4 bets size are smaller raises purely because I don't think I need to make it that big, maybe making it 23 or 24 is tiny bit better but to as Mac suggested making it something like 35 is way too excessive imo.

He is going to be calling with a tight range. How tight, realistically before the hand I would have said JJ+ AJ+, so yeah I have turned my hand into a bluff by 4 betting but I do have some outs against an underpair when an ace hits and I felt this he could be squeezing a good bit here.
I also never call a 5 bet cause while I am getting good odds his range here is KK+, AK and I am crushed and not getting the odds to hit.