BZP to be banned?

Tha Gopher

http://www.rte.ie/news/

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2007/07/18/story37569.asp

RTE suggests a total EU- wide ban, the Examiner seems to be reporting its more that the EU is strongly advising members to ban it.

Anyway, all for it myself, that filth is more dangerous than any illegal drug Ive experienced. re the arguement that prohibition leads to organised crime, tbh it would take one thick kunt of a drugs lord to buy a large consignment of this crap and try and sell it. Only wish theyd go and ban that Spice Gold rubbish while they are at it, nothing but over priced smokeable sleeping tablets (Id imagine it sells like mad during smoke droughts with people needing something. Utter bollix)

So, anyone really of the opinion this time that banning this stuff (along with Spice) isnt a good idea?

Mossy Monk

Looks pretty nasty reading some of the side effects listed there. Never heard of it though, good thing I suppose.

lezizi

What is this spice gold, id like to try it

tuxy

Tha Gopher wrote:

it sells like mad during smoke droughts with people needing something.

This can only mean cannabis is highly addictive and habit forming!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Terry

tuxy wrote:

This can only mean cannabis is highly addictive and habit forming!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Surely not.

Tha Gopher

lezizi wrote:

What is this spice gold, id like to try it

Its a legal herbal smoking mix that some boardies last year touted as being better than soapbar hash. Its an inhalable sleeping drug, nothing more. Spent a few quid on a small bag, got nothing off it. Bought a pre rolled spliff of it a few days later, smoked it, got very lethargic and headed for bed, it completely whacks you like a sleeping tab but tbh its hardly relaxing, only sleep inducing.

Tuxy- the very people touting the "addiction is bollix" thing are the same ones who were climbing the walls during a 5 week odd period last summer (when was it anyone recall, late July into most of August I think) when something happened that could well have reduced the amount of people country-wide toking in the summer sunshine to three figures. It was variously blamed on Europe wide seizures, a crop failure in Morocco, the new X Ray scanner at Dublin port and the Lebanese-Israeli conflict (even though only a small fraction of Irelands hash is Leb). During the drought there was a massive upsurge in violence in Mountjoy.

*waits for someone to cite it as proof that hash keeps violent people calm, rather than the truth that hash merely creates a situation where unstable people will get violent when they cant get any*

J.S. Pill

Oh no - looks like I'm going to have to smoke crack for the electric picnic!

eoinf

whats the point . its a sh*t high

Tha Gopher

Exactly. Mind you these head shop lads made a bomb while it lasted. Id say by now a majority of people who would be into the rave scene have popped at least one of the 8 euro tabs. Considering they come in packs of 3 minimum and only 4 odd places in town stock them afaik, thats hundreds of thousands of people paying 24 quid a pack. They know full well they cant survive selling crap herb and dodgy pills, so they got in, got their cash and theyll soon be off (Id imagine the pills, apart from their growlights and supplies like that, were their only source of profit. By now everyone must have smoked the legal grass and said never again). Bunch of dodgy scumbags tbh

Having said all that, the blonde E Euro bird who worked in the one on Capel Street, sweet fook The body on her as she leaned up high to grab the crap from behind the counter press, it was worth the money in some ways

Terry

Tha Gopher wrote:

Bunch of dodgy scumbags tbh

As opposed to the fine upstanding members of society who peddle the illegal stuff.

Giblet

He didn't say that now Terry. I know some people who enjoy BZP, and deal with the side effects. I think it's pretty nasty and while it does have some effect, staying up to 12pm the next day isn't nice... Not worth it.

Tha Gopher

Terry wrote:

As opposed to the fine upstanding members of society who peddle the illegal stuff.

Even with heroin people know what it is. When BZP is sold to you by an outwardly bang on lad whos safety advice extends no further than "dont drink too much alcohol when your on these" tbh id rate them as being near as bad as the hash dealers who introduced heroin to people who didnt know better in the early 80s (nowadays of course its for idiots, back then folk didnt know better).

I think if the prick had mentioned at the time the stuff was made by accident during research to make a de-worming agent for cattle we would have passed and all.

Giblet- I know a good few people who have taken it, most wouldnt try it again, the least they experienced was sleep pattern distortion, the worst required a hospital visit after his leg muscle seized up for hours and he became paranoid he would get a blood clot. Know two lads though who said they had a grand time, tbh i think some individual tabs must have a higher/lower dosage than others.

the_syco

Terry wrote:

As opposed to the fine upstanding members of society who peddle the illegal stuff.

You get what you pay for. The shops sell overpriced crap, whereas for half the price you'd crap that actually works, but off some dodgy geezer at some corner.

My point: any fool who tries the "legal" route will get ripped off, and never try it again, sticking with the "illegal" stuff.

Oh, and for the record, drugs effect people in different ways. Some people get aggressive, angry, and pick fights. This sort of people will eventually end up in prison, who, when there's a drought, will go ape.

Those who don't get aggressive, usually won't get into fights, and thus avoid jail time due to a public disturbance. Thus, you'll get a lot of angry drug addicts in prison if there's no drugs getting to them.

eoinf

spent 3 days at glastonbury on this stuff didnt sleep one minute not trying to sound hard just physically couldnt sleep .
done some f*cked up sh*t in my days but who wants to stay awake for 3 days. give me some proper clean pills anyday at least you can sleep on those. granted the opposite was true often wantred to spend days in bed after a heavy weekend

still each to there own.

not sure what effect it will have on the normal "drug culture" i cant imagine many people were regular purchasers of this sh*t

slipss

Tha Gopher wrote:

So, anyone really of the opinion this time that banning this stuff (along with Spice) isnt a good idea?

I'm usually against prohibition because I don't think it does any good but there isn't the demand for BZP that would make it profitable to import and sell illegally so I have no problem with them wanting to ban BZP, crap stuff, terrible side effects, **** high, waste of money, and that seems to be the general consensus of most people that have used it once the novelty of it wore off. Besides far safer more effective legal ecstacy alternatives are already available globally if you know what you're looking for.

But as for Spice Gold, if you didn't like it thats fine, don't use it. But plenty of people do like it, google "forums spice gold" or something similar and you'll see that there are lots of fans of the stuff. I of course, never take psychoactive substances, drugs are bad. But SWIM uses the stuff and loves it, it's as close to a legal alternative to cannabis as there is out there they inform me. SWIM thought the effects were very pleasant and was deffinately stoned in the cannabis sense of the word rather than just sedated or lethargic and actually prefered some of its effects over that of cannabis. Plus it means they don't have to break the law so can sit in full view of the gardai and smoke away to thier hearts content and will also pass any court or employer ordered drugs tests they are required to take. Besides you can't just ban an incense product made up of various ingredients, 14 in this case, including marshmallow, vanilla and honey unless you go through each ingredient one by one and show that they each meet the demands of placing them on the controlled substances list.

slipss

Tha Gopher wrote:

Even with heroin people know what it is.

ehhhh, no.

philstar

must stock up on the stuff before they ban it:D

lezizi

Tha Gopher wrote:

Its a legal herbal smoking mix that some boardies last year touted as being better than soapbar hash. Its an inhalable sleeping drug, nothing more. Spent a few quid on a small bag, got nothing off it. Bought a pre rolled spliff of it a few days later, smoked it, got very lethargic and headed for bed, it completely whacks you like a sleeping tab but tbh its hardly relaxing, only sleep inducing.

Tuxy- the very people touting the "addiction is bollix" thing are the same ones who were climbing the walls during a 5 week odd period last summer (when was it anyone recall, late July into most of August I think) when something happened that could well have reduced the amount of people country-wide toking in the summer sunshine to three figures. It was variously blamed on Europe wide seizures, a crop failure in Morocco, the new X Ray scanner at Dublin port and the Lebanese-Israeli conflict (even though only a small fraction of Irelands hash is Leb). During the drought there was a massive upsurge in violence in Mountjoy.

*waits for someone to cite it as proof that hash keeps violent people calm, rather than the truth that hash merely creates a situation where unstable people will get violent when they cant get any*

Thank you i have never heard of it before. I hate droughts there has been alot in the last year, i dont think i got violent when i couldnt have any though.

Zapp Brannigan

On a related note; Is Salvia still legal?

DarkJager

Yep Salvia can still be bought in most head shops, although I don't know why you'd bother as its the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever smoked in my life. There is no point to it.

BZP ain't that bad. I've had the experience of staying awake for 12 hours after taking them, and that isn't nice, especially when it doesn't say on the pack that you won't be able to sleep. But last weekend I had a very good time on them. No jaw biting, no insomnia, just a straight loved up buzz with a few close friends.

To be honest I'm 50/50 on whether they should be banned or not. I still prefer the real thing but prefer BZP for the fact there is no need to be hiding it.

As a question of interest, does anyone know what the law is on bringing BZP into nightclubs and festivals/concerts?

bushy...

Would it not be a better plan to insist its sold with a small leaflet explaining what it is / isn't /what it does/doesn't do/will do to you , would solve a few of the issues.
Some form of (anonymous) substance/pill/etc testing service would go a bit further in reducing problems than pretending nobody takes them.

Tha Gopher

DarkJager wrote:

Yep Salvia can still be bought in most head shops, although I don't know why you'd bother as its the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever smoked in my life. There is no point to it.

BZP ain't that bad. I've had the experience of staying awake for 12 hours after taking them, and that isn't nice, especially when it doesn't say on the pack that you won't be able to sleep. But last weekend I had a very good time on them. No jaw biting, no insomnia, just a straight loved up buzz with a few close friends.

To be honest I'm 50/50 on whether they should be banned or not. I still prefer the real thing but prefer BZP for the fact there is no need to be hiding it.

As a question of interest, does anyone know what the law is on bringing BZP into nightclubs and festivals/concerts?

The law itselfcurrenly has no problem with it. However bouncers are there to enforce the clubs ability to make money and reduce trouble. A drug which kills your tastefor alcohol and could mean the bouncers walking you out because your own legs are too fcuked and you dont know where you are, it would be a matter of self regulation, i somehw think if you approached a doorman and said "Hi, just in case you get mad if you see me poppin a pill, these are 100% legal" you wouldnt be getting in.

rubadub

DarkJager wrote:

Yep Salvia can still be bought in most head shops, although I don't know why you'd bother as its the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever smoked in my life. There is no point to it.

Did you get anything off it? most people do not smoke it properly, or expect to break through the first time. It has its place, but is not a party drug.

I think BZP should still be legal, as should every drug, but restricted sale should be enforced, I do not know how- that should be up to medical professionals who unfortunately have little or no influence in which drugs are made illegal, it is more likely economic reasons.

It is ironic that one of the reasons BZP was legal is that the side effects are so bad. If a drug is safe and has few side effects yet gives a nice high then it likely to be banned. Such drugs are determined to have a "high potential for abuse". e.g. if alcohol didnt give you a hangover people would drink more regularly. Amphetamine is a better alternative stimulant than caffeine, it has relatively less side effects in high doses than caffeine. For this reason the potential for abuse is more, so keep the caffeine legal- nobody will get that high off it since the side effects are terrible.

Somebody not liking the high from a drug is not reason enough to want it prohibited, many people do not like the effects of alcohol but do not want it banned for that reason.

As for BZP in clubs, it is legal, so is sniffing glue- but neither will be tolerated much if taken to extremes