Dubious move by my Management company.

feckidyparp

I know that a lot of people out there are having a pretty crappy time with management companies so I'd like to ask for a bit of advice on a move my management company are about to make. I recently moved into an apartment that has 2 electronic gates to the entrance to our estate. One for vehicles and one for pedestrians. We were given the code to both by the management company and informed that we could buy a remote control for the vehicle access gate for 120 euros (meaning we didn't have to get out in the rain to type in the code). We went ahead and bought one and it works fine. However we received a mail from our management company last week explaining that the code for the vehicular access gate would be changed and the residents would under no circumstances receive this code. In essence we now have to buy one of their remotes to gain access to our apartment by car. I am absolutely fuming about this. In my opinion management companies have far too much control over the day to day lives of residents as it is but now the are locking our cars out/in and charging us 120 euros for a remote for the gate.
now if that wasn't bad enough I went and sourced a remote that can clone my original one and it cost a measly 27 euros, delivered from Italy!!!

I'm going to call them directly tomorrow or Thursday to confront them about this. Do you think I'd have any joy suing them in the small claims for the code if they refuse to disclose it?

The_Conductor

feckidyparp wrote:

I know that a lot of people out there are having a pretty crappy time with management companies so I'd like to ask for a bit of advice on a move my management company are about to make. I recently moved into an apartment that has 2 electronic gates to the entrance to our estate. One for vehicles and one for pedestrians. We were given the code to both by the management company and informed that we could buy a remote control for the vehicle access gate for 120 euros (meaning we didn't have to get out in the rain to type in the code). We went ahead and bought one and it works fine. However we received a mail from our management company last week explaining that the code for the vehicular access gate would be changed and the residents would under no circumstances receive this code. In essence we now have to buy one of their remotes to gain access to our apartment by car. I am absolutely fuming about this. In my opinion management companies have far too much control over the day to day lives of residents as it is but now the are locking our cars out/in and charging us 120 euros for a remote for the gate.
now if that wasn't bad enough I went and sourced a remote that can clone my original one and it cost a measly 27 euros, delivered from Italy!!!

I'm going to call them directly tomorrow or Thursday to confront them about this. Do you think I'd have any joy suing them in the small claims for the code if they refuse to disclose it?

To be quite honest- the Management Company most probably are not making money out of the zapper for vehicular access- that seems to be roughly the going price (100-130 depending on model). We source ours from National Automation and thats what we are charged. You can get them cheaper if you buy bulk amounts of them- but in small complexes buying more than 40 or 50 works out prohibitively expensive.

The reason the code for vehicular access is changed is most probably to combat unauthorised parking in the complex. From experience- every takeaway, taxi driver, cousin/aunt/uncle, friends/friends of friends probably were told the number and see it as a convenient dumping ground for their car from time to time- only allowing access to cars with a key fob is actually not a bad idea when you consider this......

One thing though- the default setting for these gates is for them to be "Fail Secure"- that is- if the power fails, they should remain locked. For the sake of residents, the Management Company should be petitioned to make them Fail Safe- that is, if the power fails, the gates open and you are not all locked inside wondering when the power comes back on. Power failures and brown outs are increasingly common here unfortunately.

Finally- the Management Company is composed of the owners of the complex- if they have decided not to disclose the keypad number of the vehicular gate- the person to contact is your landlord, who should know it, or know why its not being disclosed. Its actually not unreasonable what they are doing- they most probably have had an awful problem with illegal parking- we've been there and done that. As long as you have access to the complex by the pedestrian gate- I don't think that you have a case to sue the Management Company with.

Here- the landlords bought all of their tenants key fobs for vehicular access and we tore up the codes for the keypad. The landlords also charged a refundable deposit of 150 Euro specifically for the key fob- refundable when residents are leaving. Its probably the most sane course of action for you to propose to your landlord?

Paulw

We had similar problems in our development, not with the vehicle gate but with the pedestrian gates. Every kid for miles around knew the code, never mind postman, taxi drivers, take-away etc. So, the resident's association instructed the management agent to disable the code and make it a fob only access. We issued 2 fobs per unit, and this came out of the annual budget.

You really should take this issue up with the resident's association, directors of the management company, and the management agent.

It sounds like they are only acting in the best interest of security there, and I can't see that they are doing anything wrong.

markpb

We disabled the PIN code on the pedestrian and vehicular gates because every postman, delivery man, taxi driver, residents friends, etc knew the code and rendered it useless. If you want in at night, you have to have a buy a buzzer. Incidentally ours are 60 Euro each (estate is 321 units) but we don't supply them, owners have to buy them through us at cost.

BendiBus

I concur with the above replies.

Regarding "fail secure" vs "fail safe", we have opted for fail secure. However a number of apopointed owner/occupiers have an 'override' key and can unlock the gates in the event of a power failure when necessary. Works fine except for once when none of them were home during a power failure.

My concern would be about emergency access during a power failure. I presume a fire engine has enough power to force its way through locked gates!

antoinolachtnai

Don't worry, those guys wouldn't let a locked gate get in their way! If they decide their going in, they won't be stopped that easily.

Don't expect them to be pleased about it though.

antoinolachtnai

Why don't you offer to sell the door openers to them for eur 30?

a

feckidyparp

Thanks for all the replies. I do understand that the whole point of the key code and remote control is security. I'd be only too happy if changing the code and keeping it secret from the residents kept us that bit safer. however I'm not happy that one day soon, probably Monday since they didn't do it yesterday, the code will be changed and then anyone in the estate with a car and no remote is completely stuck. I think a fairer system is achievable. A number of the apartments were made available to low income families through the affordable housing scheme, I'm thinking another 120 euros on top of the their bills is the lasdt thing they want. Possibly issuing a remote to all apartments as standard? Maybe.
Oh, when I was talking about suing the management company I was simply talking about suing for the code.
Also I don't think selling the cloning remotes is a good idea either. You could end up with a situation where there are loads of them floating around. That's probably not for the best.

The_Conductor

feckidyparp wrote:

A number of the apartments were made available to low income families through the affordable housing scheme, I'm thinking another 120 euros on top of the their bills is the lasdt thing they want. Possibly issuing a remote to all apartments as standard? Maybe.

As long as you accept that 120 will be added onto the Managment Charge (or whatever it costs to source them)- as someone has to pay for them at the end of the day. With us- the landlord pays upfront for the zappers- but the tenants are obliged to provide a seperate security specifically for the zapper. If they loose or break the zapper and are unable to return it at the end of their tenancy- the deposit is forfeit.

They are very easy things to loose or break and cost a fortune for what they are

markpb

smccarrick wrote:

As long as you accept that 120 will be added onto the Managment Charge (or whatever it costs to source them)- as someone has to pay for them at the end of the day.

I think this is an important point that's missed by a lot of people living in managed estates. When we asked people to buy gate zappers they said the same thing (why aren't the free) without realising that exactly the same amount would be added onto their charge next year. Of course then they'd complain that the charge has gone up....

feckidyparp

markpb wrote:

When we asked people to buy gate zappers they said the same thing (why aren't the free) without realising that exactly the same amount would be added onto their charge next year. Of course then they'd complain that the charge has gone up....

Fair point. I think the thing that annoyed me most was the idea of the inconvenience a move like this would have on the motoring neighbours who didn't have a zapper. Taking away the code option was in effect forcing them to buy the zapper. And I don't believe for a second these things are as expensive as the management company make out.

The_Conductor

feckidyparp wrote:

And I don't believe for a second these things are as expensive as the management company make out.

Ring National Automation- or whoever the company is who installed the gate and get a quotation for 100 zappers off them. Unfortunately I think you will most probably be surprised to find that the Management Company probably is selling them at cost......

markpb

feckidyparp wrote:

And I don't believe for a second these things are as expensive as the management company make out.

Assuming for a moment that you're right and your management company are swines, stealing your money by over-charging you, where do you think the profit goes? Yup, right back into the estates bank account where it will be spent on the estate. There's no reason why they'd overcharge for them, no-one benefits. The management agents are (usually) paid a fixed fee and the board of directors (assuming the developers have handed over the estate) are usually volunteers.

antoinolachtnai

There is a possibility that the management agent might get some mark-up.

feckidyparp

Ok. I believe that people are focusing on the wrong part of my original complaint. I was annoyed that they are changing the code and leaving people either stuck in the estate or outside the estate. the fact that they are charging 120 quid for a remote to access the estate seems to me unfair when there was a perfectly easy and cheap option available, i.e. the code. Now I believe that there should have been a totally different solution to whatever problem they thought they were fixing by changing this code. A solution which does not rely on every car owner in the complex spending more money. See?

But just for the crack I'll respond to some of the newer comments about the remote.

smccarrick wrote:

Ring National Automation- or whoever the company is who installed the gate and get a quotation for 100 zappers off them. Unfortunately I think you will most probably be surprised to find that the Management Company probably is selling them at cost......

I would be surprised. In fact I'd be shocked. I could call Power city and get a quote for 100 DVD players or Car stereos for less than 120 a piece. The remotes are cheaper. Trust me.

markpb wrote:

Assuming for a moment that you're right and your management company are swines, stealing your money by over-charging you, where do you think the profit goes? Yup, right back into the estates bank account where it will be spent on the estate. There's no reason why they'd overcharge for them, no-one benefits. The management agents are (usually) paid a fixed fee and the board of directors (assuming the developers have handed over the estate) are usually volunteers.

You honestly believe that no-one could possibly benefit by overcharging people. Lets say hypothetically that management agents are paid a fixed fee. It would seem that charging a 200% mark up on remotes would be a nice and easy way of ..... brace yourself.... making more money. Management companies are COMPANIES. They are not not-for-profit organisations and certainly do keep their profits. They don't simply put their yearly profit into the estates bank account.

markpb

feckidyparp wrote:

Now I believe that there should have been a totally different solution to whatever problem they thought they were fixing by changing this code. A solution which does not rely on every car owner in the complex spending more money. See?

Several people have pointed out why using a code isn't a good idea. If you don't believe them, that's fine.

I would be surprised. In fact I'd be shocked. I could call Power city and get a quote for 100 DVD players or Car stereos for less than 120 a piece. The remotes are cheaper. Trust me.

I do find it hard to believe they are 120 when we're being charged 60 but the truth is that they are not mass-produced items, they have to be configured for each estate which pushes the price up.

You honestly believe that no-one could possibly benefit by overcharging people. Lets say hypothetically that management agents are paid a fixed fee. It would seem that charging a 200% mark up on remotes would be a nice and easy way of ..... brace yourself.... making more money. Management companies are COMPANIES. They are not not-for-profit organisations and certainly do keep their profits. They don't simply put their yearly profit into the estates bank account.

You're getting the management company mixed up with the managing agent. The management company is a company made up of all the owners in the estate including you. If it makes a profit, there's nowhere for the money to go except back into the estate. The money goes into a sinking fund for the estate to cover any future capital expenditure and unseen expenses. The managing agent is a separate company which is paid a (usually fixed) fee by the owners of the estate to look after the day to day running of the estate.

Expenses incurred by the estate should be paid out of the management company's accounts, not the agents so it would be obvious to anyone looking at the accounts if there's a discrepancy between the price being charged by the supplier and the price being charged to the owners. If they're overcharging you for the zappers, then the money *is* going back into your estate. If the management agent are taking a commission from the sale, they have a conflict of interest and you need to start questioning whether their contract should be renewed.