Scenarios, Game Types and...bloody Snipers.

odonnell

Hey guys...

I just thought id start a general "tell noobs what to expect" thread. I have been indulging in the excitement generated here for a week or two now, just thinking about getting into airsoft has been great fun for me and to read more about it from you guys, like minded as we all are - would be great.

Now... what i wanted was for everyone to weigh in with what goes on at hrta. What sort of scenarios can take place? [obviously, im not trying to do free advertising for hrta perse]

Has anyone ever done a night excercise? [theres nothing like a good night excercise to get you firing on all cylinders] And for snipers - is there a lot of room for snipers to manouver down there and safely creep their way out of trouble without being cornered too easily? (hes in THAT corner of the field...get him!???)

Cheers all...feel free to warp this thread into ideas and what-not .... its all good reading for the prospective noob.

ED E

Well paul plans to put elephant grass like below in the large field (27 acre) I think. That would be great. Oh, and he mentioned something about a sniper den on the side of the silo.

Dr_Pepper

Tbh scenario's are definitely a huge problem at HRTA.
Ill explain why in a bit.. but here are the scenarios that we have used.
If i have left any out lemme know.

1. Tanker Defense vs Attackers
2. Capture the Flag
3. VIP
4. Hunt the Sniper
5. Tanker Defense vs Snipers
6. Hostage
7. Run to Midpoint?

1. Tanker Defense (half of total numbers) vs Attackers

This is simple.
Say there are 16 players, 8 defend the objective and 8 attack.
We play both attack and defense.

This is a lot of fun if played quickly.
Sadly however there tend to be campers on the attacking team which ends in a drawn out stalemate. This is completely stupid and wastes time.

2. Capture the Flag

Same as above with the need to capture the flag and return it home.
We play both attack and defense.

3. VIP

Since Dar collided with a rock we have not played this scenario.
But its obvious. Defenders prevent the VIP from making it to Evac Point.
Attackers clear a path for VIP to move safely.

4. Hunt the Sniper

Awesome.
4, maybe more snipers hide in the defense area and pick off the attackers.
Good fun once the Snipers are on the defensive.

5. Tanker Defense vs Snipers

As above but reversed. Not a good game.

6. Hostage

Simple idea but terrible in implimentation.
Basically once you get within 10 feet you say "Hostage" instead of Bang kill.
This way you take the opponent back to your base as a hostage.

However getting to within 10 feet without tagging the opponent is next to impossible.

7. Run to Midpoint?

2 Teams, 2 Start points, 1 Mid point.
Both teams run on the whistle and have to get to the mid point.
The objective is to capture territory in the oppositions land.
i.e. get past the half way point by as much as possible before getting tagged.



Overall Issue

Some games run on too long due to attackers camping. I have 2 remedies to this,

1. I recommend a time limit be imposed on all games.
And if you do not complete your objective by this time then you are dead.

If you want a real life reason for this then say that the defenders have artillery fire arriving in x amount of time,
e.g 20 mins so the attackers have to move.
Or that a Bomb will go off after 20 mins and its game over.

2. If the attackers fail to advance/capture the target within this time then the defenders can divide their forces and flank the attackers.
Naturally they must still defend the tanker.

odonnell

Or to solve the time issue you can take a leaf out of Counter Strikes book and call it a Defuse game. In 20 minutes...BOOM, hostages dead, awful dirty radioactive material everywhere, not pretty.

Another idea could be BASE. Do you guys use a ref as such? Ref could plant a flag somewhere in a random zone prior to game start, your mission - FIND flag, set up perimeter and hold it as long as possible. Best of 5 - team with most amount of base time wins.

I know theres a newb thread on this by the way but its not really for discussion, i thought this might be nice.

What about night games - you guys ever done that?

Dr_Pepper

No not that i know of.
But i have only been playing during the summer and as HRTA closes at 5:30 i have never been there when it is dark.

gandalf

The one reason I think games can get stalemated is the terrian isn't great, its quite hard to flank the defenders at a decent pace. Hopefully site 2 (jaysus that sounds a bit Jurassic Park eh) will allow for more fluid games. I agree totally on the defend and have snipers attack, that game pretty much sucks. Haven't had a chance to play hunt the sniper yet but that does sound like fun.

Also would love to skirmish in a forest. I believe Predator has some form of Woods as well.

Fallschirmjager

well there is a couple of issues I think we need to understand IMHO...

firstly we have a choice of 1 location and ala counterstrike, the people who play a lot know where you can hide and where you cant. also airsoft is new here, so the vast vast bulk of people are only experiencing it now. i am not knocking the ideas, i too agree that it can get predictable but i think we need to change the format of the course. i was actually going to ask paul on this very issue the next time i was going, which was to be last weekend but got held up. i think the laneway needs to be changed to allow more attacking positions other then the first corner. that bunches attackers up. one of the reasons i was looking for claymores and airsoft nades...so my secret is out! so i think there should be a few attacking positions that are short and intermediate objectives to taking the tanker pushing attackers outside the corner.. from the laneway its all or nothing at the moment.. the good news is the more people play the more we can try this.

we also need to be aware that tactics are by and large not used at the moment and that will come. so coordinated attacks and coordinated defends are difficult. basically we need cheap comms. i bought one and a headset and you can get them cheap. i saw smiths toy store selling them for 30 euro!!

i also think there needs to be a 10-15 minute planning session before each assault and defend takes place. this is nothing to do with hrta, its just we need to mature enough as a sport to go this way. a plan of attack, comms links, then aeg's...currently its just aeg's and that suits a lot of people (inc me) because they have just bought them. all of this applies to any game site, i am just using hrta as a sample, because its the only one we have.

i think the defenders should be allowed greater areas to roam and more cover, we need cover points on the laneway to allow the attackers move forward, as they are too juicy a target at the moment. i think there should be a number of positions the defenders can defend. then and only then can you take a time limit off IMHO.

once mg'er appear and they will as a&k are about to release in september a 300 dollar m249 aeg, we need to really change how we play because one person could stall the game completely...

this is all good stuff..i also think as the winter approaches (yes we have that to look forward to) the darker evenings will allow for night fighting...one of the reasons i bought my tracer mag!!! but i suspect there is insurance and safety issues here...

good thread...

odonnell

Heres a game type idea - as ive not seen the site, you guys can judge whether it would work for yourselves.

Its base on a base assault but will involve loads more movement, and ill use generic numbers for this, nothing specific - requires a ref, and say 10 coloured flags, 5 blue, 5 red.

Ok so you map out 5 bases and leave a blue and red flag at each. All bases start as Neutral.

Two teams of say... 5..or..however many guys are there that day.

Both teams start off on opposing sides of the site.

Objective: Control all the bases (plant your teams flag) - the teams have to assault AND defend their own bases, making the game fluidic. When a member of a team is tagged, instead of being out completely, he/she serves a time penalty of around 5 minutes or so (obviously this can be tweaked), and then reenters the game from any of his teams controlled bases [respawn]. The reason for this is the game would continue to flow and encourage some real hard action...time penalties on tagged players would allow a push and pull from both teams, and encourage surges in attack or defensive play.... it may be important to defend your 1 base, knock out the other team and then surge into two more bases before they respawn. First team to have all bases flags raised...... wins.

This would be a great game imo. You could even vary the makeup of a base to make it harder or easier to control - a ditch in the field, a pill-box made up of pallets, .....anything to encourage strategy.

Fallschirmjager

do i smell a faint hint of Day of Defeat about that...me likes..LOL!!

marco murphy

Wonder what are the odds of a gang of airsoft enthusiasts going into a Coilte Forest at night time? It would best suit as we (I say we when I get my AEG) would not know the terrain beforehand which would make it exciting.

Also, that site in Drogheda looks interesting to say the least.

Edit again :

Coillte recognises that forests provide an excellent landscape for a wide range of recreational activities and as the country’s largest land owner, has a special place in the provision of access to recreation. As such Coillte seeks to provide low-impact non-motorised recreation to the general public and other specialist activities under special permit.

www.Coillte.ie

Obviously I'd recommend someone contacting Coillte if thinking about this. It probably would'nt be allowed but it's worth an ask.

Fallschirmjager

Poblachtach wrote:

Wonder what are the odds of a gang of airsoft enthusiasts going into a Coilte Forest at night time? It would best suit as we (I say we when I get my AEG) would not know the terrain beforehand which would make it exciting.

Also, that site in Drogheda looks interesting to say the least.

Edit again :


www.Coillte.ie

What do yee think? There are some nice forests parks around especially up Cavan.

none actually..maybe you like prison cells...cant say i like the prospect..thanks but i will give that amiss

major missile inbounde again, from the direction of bray...

dude you better reread the stickies...

marco murphy

Sorry, perhaps I should have said. But I don't mean just invading a forest, you'd have to seek permission first, Iam looking for opinions on it. I know Summerhill Woods has a paintball course in the middle of it.

Dr_Pepper

Poblachtach wrote:

Sorry, perhaps I should have said. But I don't mean just invading a forest, you'd have to seek permission first, Iam looking for opinions on it. I know Summerhill Woods has a paintball course in the middle of it.

Sounds more like a business venture.
Not something for a bunch of guys.

marco murphy

Just trying to voice ideas. Suit yourselves really.

odonnell

Fallschirmjager wrote:

do i smell a faint hint of Day of Defeat about that...me likes..LOL!!

day of defeat was never something i played a lot of - that mantle is held by Call of Duty and Counter Strike

but yeah i got the idea from your basic base-assault map, mixed with a touch of base. a rolling base assault would be an amazing game i reckon, the more i think on it. depending on how clever you were with forming the bases and what sort of layout they were (are they concealed? is one of the bases a building? is one a pill box on top of a hill with better positioning than the rest? are they far apart? how many men would you need to hold that base? etc), you could have a game which would NOT favour the camper, and would more or less encourage several battles going on at once in different situations. say 4 people are off assaulting the pill box, you happen to leave your sniper pinning down a solitary base defender until the squad returns to deal with him - if they return....
the sniper could find his ass in the wind and need to beat a hastey retreat and defend his own base until his team mates have respawned to mount a counter.... and so on.

i think ill write a novel on this idea and urge EA to incorporate it into their games from now on, its...simply...genius!!!

CrazyRabbit

Poblachtach wrote:

Wonder what are the odds of a gang of airsoft enthusiasts going into a Coilte Forest at night time? It would best suit as we (I say we when I get my AEG) would not know the terrain beforehand which would make it exciting.

Also, that site in Drogheda looks interesting to say the least.

Edit again :


www.Coillte.ie

Obviously I'd recommend someone contacting Coillte if thinking about this. It probably would'nt be allowed but it's worth an ask.

Is this public land? Will members of the public have access to the land? If the answer to any of the above is 'yes', then Coilte Forest is out of the question.

If they allowed us on the land for airsoft games (using bio bb's no doubt), they would have to guarantee that no members of the public would stroll into the play zone.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

If they allowed us on the land for airsoft games (using bio bb's no doubt), they would have to guarantee that no members of the public would stroll into the play zone.

That's it summed up really. The whole area would have to be fenced off so no unauthorized people could get in. Something which Coilte are not going to do.

Bio bbs don't really degrade at the speed Coilte would like either. It's not like paintball in which they go away more or less instantly.

Someone mentioned they were in the process of contacting Coilte at the moment in Cork or somewhere. Which I would really think may be too much too soon.

Our only option is really just people who own private land making contact. I still have my fingers crossed that someone with woodland type terrain will at some point.

marco murphy

Thanks for clearing that up lads. What about the paintball wood in summer hill woods I wonder. That is a public forest park. Iam going to probe and see if there is some private wooded land that would be in my locality.

N.O.I.P.

odonnell wrote:

day of defeat was never something i played a lot of - that mantle is held by Call of Duty and Counter Strike

but yeah i got the idea from your basic base-assault map, mixed with a touch of base. a rolling base assault would be an amazing game i reckon, the more i think on it. depending on how clever you were with forming the bases and what sort of layout they were (are they concealed? is one of the bases a building? is one a pill box on top of a hill with better positioning than the rest? are they far apart? how many men would you need to hold that base? etc), you could have a game which would NOT favour the camper, and would more or less encourage several battles going on at once in different situations. say 4 people are off assaulting the pill box, you happen to leave your sniper pinning down a solitary base defender until the squad returns to deal with him - if they return....
the sniper could find his ass in the wind and need to beat a hastey retreat and defend his own base until his team mates have respawned to mount a counter.... and so on.

i think ill write a novel on this idea and urge EA to incorporate it into their games from now on, its...simply...genius!!!

That was pretty much the format of the ASI birthday shoot held up in Predator a while back. 140 people, 2 teams, multiple squads and a day long firefight covering around 30 acres damn that was a hell of a lot of fun

Voodoomelon

The problem with HRTA is that it gets extremely repetitive very quickly. There are only a certain number of entry points, the site is far to small and in the defend/attack games there are just defenders sitting at every entry point making the games pointless.

Also the 4 snipers against 20 odd other players is a laughable scenario with everyone sitting out in the open like fools just waiting to be shot.

And like mentioned above, the hostage games are utterly pointless in execution as its impossible to get near anyone to capture them, which I put down to the site. Same goes for the VIP game.

I just found myself getting incredibly frustrated at most of the games played during the day, which obviously takes all the fun out of it. And I know a lot of others were thinking the same thing...

odonnell

is it about being more inventive?

Shiva

odonnell wrote:

is it about being more inventive?

Its a limitation of the site, I think.
I brought someone there for their first skirmish a few months back, and while he loved the whole idea of airsoft and skirmishing, he was a bit frustrated by the size and layout.

But tbh, I think thats to be expected...Paul is limited in what he can do at the moment, but he is improving it week by week. I'm in it for the long haul, so I dont mind if there's limitations on the types of games we can play. In fact, if I spend a whole day at HRTA, I'd spend as much time BSing in the safe zone and playing with other guys equipment (Down, Gandalf !) as I do skirmishing. For me the social aspect is as much of a draw as the skirmishing.

I'm sure when airsoft was new in Northern Ireland 10 or so years ago, Predator and the other sites were pretty basic to start with. In a few years our facilities will be as good as those up north hopefully.

odonnell

obviously im speaking as a prospective noob like, and ive not been to the site, but it will probably be just like anything else in that once it has amassed a following it will expand on its own steam.

im sure we could knock around some different ideas for gametype aswell, and lets be honest - theres nothing to be lost by trying things out at least once.... all it might take is a cunning mind!

nonex

Voodoomelon wrote:

The problem with HRTA is that it gets extremely repetitive very quickly. There are only a certain number of entry points, the site is far to small and in the defend/attack games there are just defenders sitting at every entry point making the games pointless.

Also the 4 snipers against 20 odd other players is a laughable scenario with everyone sitting out in the open like fools just waiting to be shot.

And like mentioned above, the hostage games are utterly pointless in execution as its impossible to get near anyone to capture them, which I put down to the site. Same goes for the VIP game.

I just found myself getting incredibly frustrated at most of the games played during the day, which obviously takes all the fun out of it. And I know a lot of others were thinking the same thing...

Thats why we call it a CQB site,it's only frustrating when you cant do it,
4 snipers against 22 players is a laughable scenario,thats what 22 of them said.
i gave the snipers a plan and it worked for them.
The snipers won and only lost 1 player and them with a bolt rifles only,and 22 with full auto's, now thats laughable.
As for hostage games, i'll let some of the players tell you that one,
when they have played with me on there team.

Voodoomelon

Ok, let me rephrase, perhaps laughable wasn't the best word to have picked.
The sniper scenario is totally geared towards the 4 snipers enjoying themselves, whilst the other 22 get to sit around in a confined space with virtually no cover and simply "wait" to be shot.

The snipers know "exactly" where the 22 are, down to the nearest metre, unlike a realistic scenario where the snipers have to recon the entire area and determine where the enemy is based and what routes they use etc.

And if 22 lads are simply kneeling in long grass and the snipers know exactly where they are, then surely its luaghable that even one sniper got taken out.

All i'm saying is that a game like that is very little fun for the majority of the players.
No doubt your new site will lend itself to a game like this a lot better.

Jelly 292

its luaghable that even one sniper got taken out

Yes, that was very satisfying:D


But yes, agree with Voodoo in the main.
One thing I noticed -outside- HRTA is physically changing (bushs,trees,paths,etc) every time Im up with the amount of people scrambling around which keep things a little fresh anyway.

Considering the small space available I think everyone makes very good use out of it.

Fallschirmjager

well i think the addition of the flags is a better idea, we need movement and action of which snipers play an integral part...snipers are great in a team but they get boring as f*k very quickly when the vast bulk of people are stuck. in fact its a really good way to turn people off imho, especially when we are trying to do the opposite. i think voodoo has a point, 22 bored people does not make sense to keep 4 estatic. i dont think anyone going to hrta as a sample of the fun airsoft is will be too pleased either and thats not good for anyone. i think 4 snipers is too many if you are going to do this, the proof is in the fact that only 1 was tagged. yes you could argue the assault teams were crap of course, but since the vast bulk of people are playing this for less then a year, i am not sure this arguement holds water as we are all equally crap.

i am going to hrta for a laugh and a day out, for boredom and frustration i can always tune into pat kenny on RTE.

odonnell

obviously the first time i lay eyes on the site will be this weekend but from what you guys say - a hangar and 2 fields ought to be more than enough room to have like at least a 3-base rolling base assault on the go with two teams of whatever....or even 3 teams. Could the Hangar even be incorporated into it making it one large map?

try the game out, see if it has potential, and amend the spawn times to keep the game alive but not make it impossible to win.

Why not come up with a couple more ideas like this one? Nothing to say we cant try everything out.

Another thought would be to mimic the game types in counterstrike, call of duty etc?

- base assault
- TDM (possibly over a time limit, everyone respawns and keeps count of tags)
- defuse
- CTF?
- Base (as above, but maybe one base, held for as long as possible, random base positions, first team there holds until eliminated, best of 3, 5.... total times tallied)

Anyway.... just chucking about ideas to inspire people.

O'D

marco murphy

Can someone explain how the respawn works? Does one walk back to base and start again?
Has an assault on the hangar been tried yet?

Voodoomelon

Hey Poblachtach, respawn typically works by a player being hit, walking off and returning to the "safe" zone (the non fire/relax area) and then returning to the play area after a designated amount of time, typically 2 minutes. However, as you would expect, issues arise as to who has been hit and who hasn't on returning to the field. Nothing to do with HRTA, jusy the way the technique works...

Also, an assault hasn't been tried on the hanger area, there is only one small 1 metre-ish wide entry point which is also the point for paying, signing in, charging, relaxing etc, so I can't see it being it used in such a way...

Voodoomelon

Fallschirmjager wrote:

well i think the addition of the flags is a better idea, we need movement and action of which snipers play an integral part...snipers are great in a team but they get boring as f*k very quickly when the vast bulk of people are stuck. in fact its a really good way to turn people off imho, especially when we are trying to do the opposite. i think voodoo has a point, 22 bored people does not make sense to keep 4 estatic. i dont think anyone going to hrta as a sample of the fun airsoft is will be too pleased either and thats not good for anyone. i think 4 snipers is too many if you are going to do this, the proof is in the fact that only 1 was tagged. yes you could argue the assault teams were crap of course, but since the vast bulk of people are playing this for less then a year, i am not sure this arguement holds water as we are all equally crap.

i am going to hrta for a laugh and a day out, for boredom and frustration i can always tune into pat kenny on RTE.

Well put.
I by no means mean to bash HRTA, but certain scenrarios just don't work at that particular site.
In terms of enjoyment and having fun, whatever about having realistic assualts, we simpy need better cover, more physical structures and more of a site to work with.