Tips on recording piano?

MetalMaiden

I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist but I'm new to the whole recording/home-production thing and I was wondering is there any way to record piano properly without getting a midi keyboard (which in my opinion just don't sound as good). What kind of equipment do you need etc? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Doctor J

The best results I've heard have come from a pair of condenser mics, setup with one over the bass side, one over the treble side and slightly panned. An XY setup works well too.

cornbb

What the Doc said. Plus if you are recording classical music in a certain environment (i.e. big reflective space, high ceilings) you may want to put another condenser mic a few metres away pointing at the open lid of the piano. This can be used to add a bit of ambience to the recording.

eoin5

Is it an upright or grand piano?

MetalMaiden

Thanks for the tips I'll try that! It's an upright piano.

TelePaul

MetalMaiden wrote:

Thanks for the tips I'll try that! It's an upright piano.

Move the right hand side out from the wall.

eoin5

Any kind of ambient micing doesnt work as well with an upright as it doesnt throw out the sound in the same way as a grand piano.

The handiest way I know of is to open the top lid and put a mic over the top, or use two at either side like what Doc J said. Move the mics around a couple of times to see if you can find a sweet spot. If you want more ambience you can add some reverb later.

Frankiestylee

Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I'm helping a friend out and helping her put a demo together.

When you say xy do you mean, um, like you'd use when mic-ing a acoustic guitar? So, both at the same point and one pointing left, one point right, or should I just put a mic down the bass end and one up the treble end as suggested? I was thinking of using two sm57s and a beta57. It's an upright.

artvandulet

I suggest the 3:1 mic method. Similar to what was said before. One mic towards either end. Panned L and R. Whatever distance you have the mic from the piano, have the distance between mics 3 times this distance.
EG - mics are 1ft from piano and 3 ft appart.
This is the way I was taught to record piano anyway.

jtsuited

if you stick two good condensors in the middle and point them towards each side, you'll get a nice sound.
Be careful of comb-filtering. I used to get it a lot when i spread the mics out.

studiorat

You could try removing the front panel in front or the player and use a stereo pair of mics close in pointing towards the hammers as you would with a grand piano. Experiment with the 3:1 rule for spaced pair, ie. for every foot away from the source the mics should be 3 feet apart. I prefer the x/y technique as it's usally a little more mono compatable, if you were mixing it in with other instruments you might like to narrow the image a bit to create a bit more room.

If you want a fuller sound with less attack and some room ambience the mics can be moved out and set up in a similar way to overheads on a drum kit.

It's really a job of experimenting with micing on either the strings side or the soundboard side.

PS if you are using cheaper mics for this I'd initially go for small diaphgram ones, they are usually a little quiter.

Frankiestylee

For this I'll be using sm57s. I had some condensors on order from Naiant studios but they never delivered.... last time I take internet advice on an unknown brand.

studiorat

Frankiestylee wrote: »

For this I'll be using sm57s. I had some condensors on order from Naiant studios but they never delivered.... last time I take internet advice on an unknown brand.

Can't go wrong with a pair of '57s! I'd be tempted to use them from the front so...

These are nice...
http://oktava.com/inc/sdetail/489
Not cheap, but like any tool, Ya by cheap, Ya buy twice!!

jtsuited

studiorat wrote: »

Can't go wrong with a pair of '57s! I'd be tempted to use them from the front so...

These are nice...
http://oktava.com/inc/sdetail/489
Not cheap, but like any tool, Ya by cheap, Ya buy twice!!

57's on a piano? seems a bit strange to me. you'll lose a lot of the nice part of the piano sound.

Frankiestylee

I'm only set up for home recording for myself, just said I'd help a friend out making a demo... so I don't exactly have the mics. I did order some condensors from Naint Studios as I think I said above, but the gits just never sent them out (must chase that up).

I've two sm57s, a beta 57, a sm58 and a sm7. I've some other ****tier t.bone mics, haven't actually used them before but I they're dynamic yokes, probably like an sm58.
I was going to use the sm57s for the stereo recording of the piano and then use the SM7 for the vocals.

studiorat

jtsuited wrote: »

57's on a piano? seems a bit strange to me. you'll lose a lot of the nice part of the piano sound.

For an upright they'd be grand! Arrrf!!
We are talking about taking off the front panel of the piano here, the above the keys bit. And getting them mics right up close.

Don't underestimate the '57, don't forget in the US there is a much bigger tradition of using dynamics than over here, on all sorts of things. They are business for acoustic gtr, and tuned percussion too.

It also depends on what you consider to be the nice part of the piano sound, the '57 rolls off at about 90Hz and is flat up to a lift at around 6Khz and roll off again at 15K. You usually end up cutting at the low to low mids on a piano anyway.
They won't have the transient response on a good pair of small condensers, but they are not that bad either, experimenting with distance from the hammers will give you the attack you need.

Taking an educated guess, I'd reckon a €100 dynamic is gonna sound at least as good as a €40 condenser. (the ones in the link)
On an upright in a home gig, a little less detail might be no bad thing, especially taking room acoustics and the pianos mechanical noise into account. Not to mention the mic amps.

Then, if you really want to get funky try snipping out the transformers in them.:cool:

Ardent

Jaysis lads, seems like a lot of bother. What's wrong with a good midi keyboard with weighted keys running though Steinberg's The Grand (2)??