Bord Pleanala - Notification of Appeal

Aeneas

I have successfully objected to a proposed development next to my home and the application has been refused permission by the Planning Authority, in this case a County Council. Grateful to know if the Council is obliged to notify me if the unsuccessful applicant lodges an appeal to Bord Pleanala?

muffler

To the best of my knowledge they dont have to notify you as any appeal made by the applicant is strictly between the council and the applicant being the first and second parties.

You are of course entitled to submit an observation as being a third party to the original application. If they dont contact you (Council or ABP) you can always check An Bord Pleanala website or phone them or indeed you can call your local planning office as they would obviously have details of any appeal.

Just for the record you could claim that you successfully appealed a decision for example but strictly speaking you cant claim that you successfully objected to a planning application.

muffler

muffler wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge they dont have to notify you as any appeal made by the applicant is strictly between the council and the applicant being the first and second parties.

You are of course entitled to submit an observation as being a third party to the original application. If they dont contact you (Council or ABP) you can always check An Bord Pleanala website or phone them or indeed you can call your local planning office as they would obviously have details of any appeal.

Just for the record you could claim that you successfully appealed a decision for example but strictly speaking you cant claim that you successfully objected to a planning application.

Sorry to drag an old thread up, but this is untrue information you are giving.

When an appeal is received by the Board, (ABP) they circulate a copy to the Local Authority (LA) and to the applicant (if it's a 3rd party appeal). When the LA receive this they are obliged to notify all the people who made a submission at the LA stage, whether they were pro or anti the development.

Anybody, i.e. not just those who made a submission at the LA stage can make an observation on an appeal provided a) it is received within 28 days from, and including the date on which the appeal is received by ABP and b) they pay the appropriate fee (at the moment it's €50).

It is only if you want to appeal a decision to ABP that you would have to have made a submission at LA stage, except (as you pointed out) in certain circumstances i.e. an application for Leave to Appeal.

smashey

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry to drag an old thread up, but this is untrue information you are giving.

When an appeal is received by the Board, (ABP) they circulate a copy to the Local Authority (LA) and to the applicant (if it's a 3rd party appeal). When the LA receive this they are obliged to notify all the people who made a submission at the LA stage, whether they were pro or anti the development.

Anybody, i.e. not just those who made a submission at the LA stage can make an observation on an appeal provided a) it is received within 28 days from, and including the date on which the appeal is received by ABP and b) they pay the appropriate fee (at the moment it's €50).

It is only if you want to appeal a decision to ABP that you would have to have made a submission at LA stage, except (as you pointed out) in certain circumstances i.e. an application for Leave to Appeal.

Dude, I think muffler answered the question correctly. Sure, anybody can make a submission, but that wasn't what was asked.

alinoee

smashey wrote: »

Dude, I think muffler answered the question correctly. Sure, anybody can make a submission, but that wasn't what was asked.

.
not quite. council makes a decision and if it is appealed - council's decision (and council most of the times) is out of equation. abp is a different body. short - council will not notify you bout appeal to abp.

Courts.ie

Sorry, again, for the bringing this up, but......

Article 69 of the 2001 planning and development regulations is what i'm referring to. Did a quick search and came up with:

14. Much has been made of the fact that it is now necessary to pay a fee (20 Euro) when making a submission or observation. As against this, the level of service provided to a person making a submission or observation in relation to an application is greatly enhanced. For example, such a person is entitled to an acknowledgement of the submission or observation; to notification in circumstances where an application is returned as invalid (Article 29); to notification of the decision on the application (Article 31); and to notification of the fact of an appeal (Article 69). Furthermore, where further information or revised plans are submitted which contain ‘sign~jkunt additional d&a’ then an observer is entitled to notification of the fact of the submission (Article 35)

I got this from:

http://www.iela.info/Planning&DevelopmentRegulations2001.pdf

I'm looking for the exact wording of the Article here.....give us a sec...

Courts.ie wrote:

A third party appeal was lodged with the Board it is required to inform the Town Council, who were in turn required by Article 69 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, to inform those who made submissions or observations.

Source: http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/bce24a8184816f1580256ef30048ca50/42744d71cb6380898025722e00635906?OpenDocument

Where an appeal is made to the Board, the Board notifies the relevant
planning authority and sends it a copy of the appeal. It is a mandatory
requirement that the planning authority notify a person who made a
submission or observation on the planning application that the decision on a
planning application has been appealed32. This enables a person who
participated in the decision making process at the planning authority stage to
make a further submission or observation to the Board. This notification must
be given as soon as possible and should in any case be given within 5
working days to enable an interested party to comply with the four-week
deadline.

source: http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,14467,en.pdf



Can't seem to find the exact text of Article 69 but you can see what i mean.

smashey

smashey wrote: »

Dude, I think muffler answered the question correctly. Sure, anybody can make a submission, but that wasn't what was asked.

I know that wasn't what was asked. But Muffler gave out incorrect info when he said:

muffler wrote: »

You are of course entitled to submit an observation as being a third party to the original application

This might lead somebody to believe that ONLY people who made a submission to the L.A. at application stage can subsequently make a submission/observation to the Board.

What was asked, was:

Aeneas wrote: »

Grateful to know if the Council is obliged to notify me if the unsuccessful applicant lodges an appeal to Bord Pleanala?

which I've answered twice now.

em, just re-read over this post and it looks like i'm giving out/admonishing you, which I can assure you, I'm not.

muffler

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that wasn't what was asked. But Muffler gave out incorrect info when he said:

muffler wrote: »

You are of course entitled to submit an observation as being a third party to the original application.

This might lead somebody to believe that ONLY people who made a submission to the L.A. at application stage can subsequently make a submission/observation to the Board.

The OP indicated that he had objected to a planning application and the reply given above is correct. He is entitled to make an observation. Now what part of that are you having difficulty with? He didnt say he was holding a watching brief and therefore the statement is correct. If other people want to ask what the position is in relation to a "non objector" making a submission to ABP then I am quite happy to answer that. But that wasn't what was asked.

Oh and using a term such as "might lead somebody to believe" is purely speculative based on the one word "might". Stick to facts.

Deleted User wrote: »

which I've answered twice now.

Keep it up and we can view it as flaming and spamming

Deleted User wrote: »

em, just re-read over this post and it looks like i'm giving out/admonishing you

And indeed it looks that way to me too.


To ensure impartiality I am leaving the moderating of this thread to smashey should there be a repeat of the above.

muffler

Apologies, 'incorrect' was a poor choice of words. I should have said "possibly misleading info". I don't know how you can't see that adding the proviso

as being a third party to the original application

could be construed as meaning that anybody who was not a 3rd party, is now unable to lodge an observation. I've no way of proving this as "fact" other than to say that I can see how somebody who knew little of the application/appeal process might get the wrong end of the stick.

muffler wrote:

But that wasn't what was asked.

I'm aware of that. You did give an answer to the question that was asked which was 'to the best of your knowledge'. That was in correct. I told you and the OP that they were in fact obliged to inform him/her if and when an appeal was lodged (which was the question asked in the first instance), backed my point up further when alinoee said that they weren't obliged to, and then I'm accused of flaming and spamming?

I thought you'd like to know yourself seeing as you were unsure when the OP originally asked. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but it's a bit rich asking me to stick to the facts when you yourself did not.

TBH, there's a very hostile tone to your post Muffler, and while I acknowledged that my last one may have seemed a little...haughty or superior, I assured Smashey (to whom the bulk of my post was addressed) that I wasn't. I get the impression that you are deliberately 'scolding' me, for want of a better word, and are making no bones about it.

Phrases such as

Stick to facts.....Keep it up.....and...a repeat of the above

are a lot more haughty than what i posted. The fact that you are 'disregarding rank' so to speak and leaving it to Smashey to mod the thread gives me the impression that you feel there is some kind of conflict between us when no such conflict exist.

I honestly don't know where the hostility has come from

smashey

Guys. Stop splitting hairs. We're getting nowhere.

muffler

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies, 'incorrect' was a poor choice of words.

I was going to reply in detail but since you have apologised I will accept that and move on.