But its not my car!!

6th

Be prepared for a rant:

Ok so over a year ago we traded in our car to a ford centre in Tallaght, all went well. A few months later we got a fine in the post because the car had been parked in a no parking zone on Parnell street. I got straight onto the dealer and they assured me it was ok to ignore because shannon were just slow to process the change over. A couple of months later another letter. Again the dealer said the same but I asked a garda and they said not to worry.

This morning a summons was delivered to appear in court in December! My wife tells me that a month or so ago she got a letter say the tax was over due. She photocopied all the paper work and wrote to the motor tax office explaining and we presume thats ok because we've heard nothing else.

Anyway I am furious at the dealer because we essentially sold it to them so as far as I am concerned they are the owners.

Any suggestion about a course of action? Obviously we will be contacting the officer named on the summons after the weekend.

Gary ITR

Did you send the change of ownership forms to Shannon yourself?

bennyx_o

Surely if you trade a car in it's upto the dealer to send the relevent paperwork off? Thats the way it's been with the cars I've bought off dealers, anyway.

Have you been in touch with the dealership to let them know about the summons? What did they have to say?

6th

No the dealer was doing that. We signed the stuff in the showroom and they took it from there. However has it now is driving around without reg'ing it and no tax.

eth0_

Onkle wrote:

Did you send the change of ownership forms to Shannon yourself?

That's what I want to know. OP it is your responsibility to fill in the transfer of ownership form on the certificate of ownership, and to post it to Shannon!

It is extremely reckless of you to ignore your responsibilities - be glad the car wasn't involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you could be held responsible.

6th

Just got the summons this morning and Tallaght Ford are closed til Tuesday morning.

6th

eth0_ wrote:

That's what I want to know. OP it is your responsibility to fill in the transfer of ownership form on the certificate of ownership, and to post it to Shannon!

No, of course we havw to fill in the paper work but I have sold a few cars and the dealer always send of the forms. My sister in law worked in the motor tax office and she says the same.

eth0_ wrote:

It is extremely reckless of you to ignore your responsibilities - be glad the car wasn't involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you could be held responsible.

Actually its not my resonsibility, are you saying if someone was driving your car and knocked someone down that you would go to prison? This would be even more clear cut than that. I have copies of all the forms from when we sold it.

eth0_

6th wrote:

No the dealer was doing that. We signed the stuff in the showroom and they took it from there. However has it now is driving around without reg'ing it and no tax.

.....!

No idea if the dealer was stupid or dodgy, but it is not for the dealer to send off your ownership certificate to transfer ownership.

You do realise you are totally liable for the road tax on this car atm? You need to act on this NOW, contact the authorities and ask for a replacement ownership certificate and get it sorted out before you get any more summons and fines.

Gary ITR

eth0_ wrote:

That's what I want to know. OP it is your responsibility to fill in the transfer of ownership form on the certificate of ownership, and to post it to Shannon!

It is extremely reckless of you to ignore your responsibilities - be glad the car wasn't involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you could be held responsible.

The man is right here. Tallaght ford should have signed off the form (AFAIK there is a box or something that you tick to say the car has been sold to a dealer) and then YOU send the form to Shannon yourself

cold_filter

Onkle wrote:

The man is right here. Tallaght ford should have signed off the form (AFAIK there is a box or something that you tick to say the car has been sold to a dealer) and then YOU send the form to Shannon yourself

If your selling privately then it is your responsibility to send off the paper work, however if you trade it into a garage they must send off the reg form once its sold.

ArseBurger

eth0_ wrote:

.....!

No idea if the dealer was stupid or dodgy, but it is not for the dealer to send off your ownership certificate to transfer ownership.

You do realise you are totally liable for the road tax on this car atm? You need to act on this NOW, contact the authorities and ask for a replacement ownership certificate and get it sorted out before you get any more summons and fines.

No. If you sell the car privately it is. If you trade it to a dealer, either as a trade in or as a sale, the dealer is responsible for the paperwork. They use their dealer code on the registration document when passing it to Shannon.

Just because one has an opinion, doesn't mean it is fact.

Wishbone Ash

eth0_ wrote:

be glad the car wasn't involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you could be held responsible.

How in God's name could the former owner be responsible for an accident involving a car that he/she wasn't driving? :rolleyes:

6th

ArseBurger wrote:

No. If you sell the car privately it is. If you trade it to a dealer, either as a trade in or as a sale, the dealer is responsible for the paperwork. They use their dealer code on the registration document when passing it to Shannon.

Just because one has an opinion, doesn't mean it is fact.

Its ok guys I know eth0_ is wrong. Seller privately and trading in a completely different. Now all we need is eth0_ to realise that :rolleyes:

samo

I received a form from the tax office afetr trading in a car asking me to explain why I hadnt re-taxed it and one of the options was that it had been traded into a garage and no longer in my possession.

If your wife sent off the same declaration, I really cannot see how there could possibly be any onus on you to be held responsible or accountable for it...as everyone else has said, thats part and parcel of trading it into a garage.

oleras

eth0_ wrote:

.....!

No idea if the dealer was stupid or dodgy, but it is not for the dealer to send off your ownership certificate to transfer ownership.

You do realise you are totally liable for the road tax on this car atm? You need to act on this NOW, contact the authorities and ask for a replacement ownership certificate and get it sorted out before you get any more summons and fines.

yet another reason to take what you read on the internet with a pinch of salt............ worst misinformed post ever !! :rolleyes:

oleras

6th wrote:

Be prepared for a rant:

Ok so over a year ago we traded in our car to a ford centre in Tallaght, all went well. A few months later we got a fine in the post because the car had been parked in a no parking zone on Parnell street. I got straight onto the dealer and they assured me it was ok to ignore because shannon were just slow to process the change over. A couple of months later another letter. Again the dealer said the same but I asked a garda and they said not to worry.

This morning a summons was delivered to appear in court in December! My wife tells me that a month or so ago she got a letter say the tax was over due. She photocopied all the paper work and wrote to the motor tax office explaining and we presume thats ok because we've heard nothing else.

Anyway I am furious at the dealer because we essentially sold it to them so as far as I am concerned they are the owners.

Any suggestion about a course of action? Obviously we will be contacting the officer named on the summons after the weekend.

6th, if you still have the pink simi form it will show what date you traded your motor against the new one. Would not worry too much about it, if it did go to court it would be thrown out, get onto the guard and explain it to him, im sure you are not the first person that this has happened to.

parsi

eth0_ wrote:

It is extremely reckless of you to ignore your responsibilities - be glad the car wasn't involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you could be held responsible.

Tosh. Pure unadulterated tosh.

As a matter of interest why would it only matter if teh car was in an accident with a pedestrian and not a cyclist or animal or inanimate object ?

bazz26

Afaik the dealer holds onto the VLC of a trade-in until they sell the car again. I think they do inform Shannon that they have temperarily taken ownership of the trade-in (not sure what process they have to do this, phone call?). Afaik this is so they do not go on the VLC as another owner. When the car is sold on, the dealer gets the new owner to sign the change of ownership section and they send it off to Shannon who then send out a new VLC to the new owner.

I have traded many cars into dealers over the years and not once have I ever had to send off the change of ownership form to Shannon. The dealer has always done this.

6th

Ok so we can all see that Etho is very VERY wrong here but I'm pissed at Tallaght Ford so should I go shout at them?

TheBazman

Just had the same problem - traded in a Nissan to a BMW garage in Jul 06. Got a parking fine it the post in Dec saying that the offence was committed in Drogheda (where I've never been) in Nov. I rang the garage who said they would sort it out. I forgot about it until two weeks ago when I got a summons to appear in court in Oct for non payment. I have tried explaining everything to the office that issued the fine but they dont want to know.

In the end I have gotten the BMW garage to send me out a cheque for the fine and I am paying it myself

crosstownk

The dealer is an idiot. Fair enough, it's possible that the form went missing the first time, but they obviously did nothing about it after you told them of the fine initially. You are most certainly the registered owner of that vehicle and will remain so until the correct forms are processed at the Vehicle Registrations Office in Shannon. While they may be slow sometimes, a year is unheard of. Three months is heading for slow.

Ultimately, the best way is to send off the form yourself. That said, most dealers will do this for you. The reason they prefer to do it is that if you send it, and forget to tick the "I sold it to a dealer" box, then the car will have a new, recorded owner. The dealer sends it himself to ensure that no owner is recorded. But it's a good idea to take copies of the signed VLC before you hand over the keys.

I reckon that once you contact the relevant Garda and certainly once he sees the documentation, the whole thing will be dropped. Contact with the Garda is crucial. Contact the dealer too and let him have it - he's the one who dropped the ball. DO NOT rely on the dealer to sort it out.

mad m

TheBazman wrote:

In the end I have gotten the BMW garage to send me out a cheque for the fine and I am paying it myself

Can't believe my eyes when I read that!! What happens if you get another fine! I'd let the bloody garage to sort it out.

crosstownk

mad m wrote:

Can't believe my eyes when I read that!! What happens if you get another fine! I'd let the bloody garage to sort it out.

Fine (sorry!) but the the offence is in your name. Paying the fine and getting reimbursed is a good idea - but if there are penalty points involved it's another matter....................

parsi

Whatever about trading-in to a dealer (where you will get loads of paper-work) this does show that when selling privately _you_ should complete the forms and send them off. When I sold herself's car the new buyers husband and myself signed the forms (pretending to be out spouses) so that I could make sure that _I_ was the one sending off the form and not having to rely on someone else to do it.

Of course when trading-in I leave it all to the dealer. Let's face it with a trade-in you have fair proof that you no-longer have the car..

Seth Brundle

Not to someone sitting in an office in Shannon or in a garda station. Then the hassles of resolving it start and you go on the internet to try and sort it out!

Owen

What should have happened in this situation is that 6th should have signed off on the logbook, and on an RF105 form - 'Transfer of ownership to a Motor Dealer'. This transferrs ownership of the car to the Dealer, without adding another owner to the logbook's record.

If neither happened, and the Dealer has lost the logbook, they will need to sign another RF105, and also include an RF134, stamped by the Gardaí to request a replacement book. The Dept of the Environment and Local Government will then issue a new logbook in the Garage's name.

Mr.Diagnostic

What should be done when selling a car is governed by the finiance act. This is law, ie statutory obligations no just guidelines.

It is the seller who is responsible for sending in the form (RF105 in this case). In reality the dealer usually looks after this and as long as it gets done there is no problem.
In this case the outcome would depend on which side of the bed the judge got out of. He could decide it is all the OP's fault for not fulfilling the statuatory obligation.
The best option would be to stop the case but as far as I am aware the OP will have to go to court since the summons has been issued. If this is the case then the OP can admit the offence or fight it. Talk to the Guard, talk to a solicitor to find out for sure where you stand.

Taken from - http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,494,en.pdf

C. How to complete this form
Part A of this form must be completed by the owner DISPOSING OF the vehicle and Part B completed by the
MOTOR DEALER ACQUIRING the vehicle. Both parties complete the Declaration at Part C.
D. What to do next
When the Owner disposing of the vehicle and the Motor Dealer acquiring the vehicle have completed the form:
• The OWNER DISPOSING OF THE VEHICLE should IMMEDIATELY forward this form to the
Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Shannon Town Centre, Co. Clare.
• THE OWNER DISPOSING OF THE VEHICLE where already licensed (taxed) will have been issued
with a Certificate RF101 and in such cases the Certificate (with change of ownership section not
completed) should be surrendered to the Motor Dealer.

TheBazman

mad m wrote:

Can't believe my eyes when I read that!! What happens if you get another fine! I'd let the bloody garage to sort it out.

If there were points it would be a completely different matter - they did offer to turn up on the day of the court for me but I figured there was a fair chance they would "forget"

deegs

I sold my car last December and i just got a fine in the post there as it was seen with no insurance 2 weeks ago....

I did not transfer the ownership as the OP said they wanted the cert, i didnt think twice as i brought a car back from uk and refused to leave without the cert.

how fecked am I? Do i have any ground with the OP?

cjt156

Proper fecked.
This is madness; you let someone walk away with a car and an official document that says that you are still responsible for it? At the very least you should have filled the change of ownership out in full and put it in the post - the buyer could have been there with you to verify.

I'd say you've got some serious phone calls to make and form-filling to do.

prospect

That crowd in shannon...

A couple of years ago I assumed ownership of a Pug 106, that I had never seen in my life, form a dealer I never did business with. I had not even bought/sold or traded a car at the time.
Quite simply, out of the blue I received ownership documents????


Maybe it is time for a strong worded letter.
A couple of years ago I kept getting correspondance from the TV licence crowd telling me I had no licence. I tried unsucessfully a few times to call & sent a few letters. They continued to send me warnings.
So, I sat down and wrote a very strong worded letter, and included copies of all evidence that I had a licence. I pointed out that I was being harrased as a result of their incompetence. I finished by saying that this was my final word on the matter, and any further correspondance from them would be destroyed.

Never received any more letters.

deegs

deegs wrote: »

I sold my car last December and i just got a fine in the post there as it was seen with no insurance 2 weeks ago....

I did not transfer the ownership as the OP said they wanted the cert, i didnt think twice as i brought a car back from uk and refused to leave without the cert.

how fecked am I? Do i have any ground with the OP?

As it happens, the fine is due to the person in control of the vechicle, not the owner. There is a piece on the back of the fine where you can say who that person was. I did that with the details of the new person and sent it back to the gaurds. I got a letter from the gaurds 2 days later saying I am absolved of any responsibility and will chase up the other person.

Supplementary to this i rang the other dude, and he STILL didnt send of the cert so i explain to the gaurds, they signed the form for replacement docs, i went to the tax office and ordered a new reg cert. I got that two days later and sent it yesterday to Shannon for change of ownership.

Hopefully done and dusted.... but i have learned from this. Trust NO-ONE!