Raising/Softening the Suspension after it has been lowered? Unmodifying my Car:)

blobert

Hello,

I recently brought in a car from Japan (a Toyota Yaris dressed up as an RS) that has been modified far more than I expected or than was described. It's fine in most respects but there are two problems.

(1) The suspension has been lowered/stiffened significantly (using a TEIN system - I'm not even sure what this is). There is also a support bar across the chassis under the bonnet. The end result is the ride is far too harsh for bumpy Irish roads and so I'm hoping it can be raised/softened without too much trouble/expense. Any ideas on how this can be done, or what to tell a mechanic to do would be much appreciated. I don't even know where I should be looking.

(2) The car has a bodykit that seems to be a bit loose at the front (I tightened up the loose bolt). When the wheels are locked in to a full turn in either direction they seem to be rubbing against this body kit bumper causing a nasty sounding sound. I'm assuming that the problem is the wider tyres rubbing on the body kit, how do you think it could be resolved. I'm assuming that this was not always a problem with the car, whoever had it before me obviously put a lot of work into it so I don't think they would leave such a big problem. I'm hoping that raising the suspension may cure this problem as well.


Finally, the car also has tinted rear windows (a lot darker than I thought) a modified exhaust, lots of funny lights inside it (as I discovered tonight) and a foolish looking spoiler that I shall probably remove. This evening some idiots in another modified hatchback started driving right up behind me revving the engine and trying to get me to race them. I'm a bit concerned that by having a modified car I am now entering a world of unpleasant young men who think I am similar to them. Like I said I was unaware of a lot of the mods to the car when buying it (it looks very nice otherwise) but it seems I am probably going to wind up paying people to un"slam it to the ground" and de"pimp" it. Either that or I can embrace my new found boy racer image and take a trip to the jewellery section of Argos to complete my look

Any advice on the problems described above would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Henry Ford III

Sell it.

Gary ITR

On the tinted windows anyway, my friend has just bought a Toyota Vitz too and the back windows are really dark, reason being the car doesn't come with a parcel shelf in the boot

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote:

Sell it.

+1

Someone might just like it the way it is

daedalus2097

That's it - there are lots of people looking to do that kinda thing to their cars - selling it like that and advertising all these "features" could well even make you a little profit!

A scrappy on the other hand could have some perfectly good shocks/standard parts for you to fit back onto the car, and then you can sell the extra bits you have on eBay, where there are even more people looking for things like that

MercMad

Yeah I would sell it !

Springs controll the road height and to a certain degree the stiffness, but the uprated shocks will have made the car very hard !

You will need to replace shock and springs all round !

Atomic Pineapple

yeh I'd stick it up for sale, tein suspension in itself can be very expensive and could be a good selling point to some, it also might be adjustable if you want to heighten the ride, not much you can do about the stiffness though.

are the wheels not standard if not they may be just too wide for the bodykit, you could just sell them and get smaller wheels

blobert

Thanks for the advice guys,

I don't really want to sell it as I like the car a lot otherwise. Also it is an automatic which I think will reduce it's appeal.

How much would it cost to solve the problem? I like the idea of removing the shocks and selling them on eBay.

5500

Sounds heavily modified,from what you've described im suprised you didnt notice the mods before purchase even from auction pics.

TEIN suspension is quality stuff,you could have in excess of €1000 worth on there,they could be coilovers or just springs and shocks,If there coilovers you can adjust the height of them and there also dampen adjustable from the top of the shocks - any chance you can get a picture of them and i may be able to tell you?

Id say its them thats causing your wheel rubbing if the cars sitting on the deck,Can you spot any name on the exhaust?If the previous owners gone to the trouble of tein suspension you may have some expensive parts if you decide to sell them seperatly or the car altogether

MercMad

TEIN suspension is quality stuff,you could have in excess of €1000 worth on there,they could be coilovers or just springs and shocks,If there coilovers you can adjust the height of them and there also dampen adjustable from the top of the shocks - any chance you can get a picture of them and i may be able to tell you?

............good point. With expensive suspension you usually have plenty os adjustment but it will always be harder than standard, but could be acceptable. Check it out !

blobert

eireal wrote:

Sounds heavily modified,from what you've described im suprised you didnt notice the mods before purchase even from auction pics.

TEIN suspension is quality stuff,you could have in excess of €1000 worth on there,they could be coilovers or just springs and shocks,If there coilovers you can adjust the height of them and there also dampen adjustable from the top of the shocks - any chance you can get a picture of them and i may be able to tell you?

Id say its them thats causing your wheel rubbing if the cars sitting on the deck,Can you spot any name on the exhaust?If the previous owners gone to the trouble of tein suspension you may have some expensive parts if you decide to sell them seperatly or the car altogether

Thanks for the advice, the exhaust is TOMS. I've taken a few shots to show you the various parts.


Here's a shot of the TEIN system on the rear wheel:



The ride, while far too stiff is not that bad, if I could soften it up at all it would be nice though.

You can see the wheels in this pic and the front bodykit:



The wheels are 16 inch so they may just be too big, the rubbing occurs when the wheel is fully locked and is quite loud so I'd like to be able to stop it.


And here is the engine:



As you can see there is an extra bar, and also those red pipes which I assume are exhaust related.

Any further advice on how to solve the problems I'm having would be much appreciated.

Despite my initial comments I actually like the car a lot and intend to keep it. I'd just like to be able to solve the two problems I described above.

MAYPOP

The bar is a strut brace - it provides extra strength between the strut towers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strut_brace

Removing it will have no effect on ride at all.

The "red pipes" are Samco hoses, also top quality gear, don't remove/replace them. TOMs exhaust is also an expensive piece of kit.

You can adjust the height of your coilovers - this may prevent your wheels rubbing. Your wheels really suit the car, I would leave them on.

rebel.ranter

You could put slightly narrower tyres on the front the next time they are due a change. It might prevent the rubbing. Have a chat with the trye fitter to see what he thinks. Alterntively it looks like you have the ability to adjust the height of the suspension.
Whenyou say the ride is hard, what are you comparing it to? Other Yaris'?
Looks like you bought fairly modified car there with all those expensive add-ons. Now that they are there all there you may as well leave them there. They will probably make good selling points.

Atomic Pineapple

is that a pic of your actual car?

that is one sweet looking yaris and i cant see it as an attraction for boy racers, its a car modded properly so it is an has some seriously nice equipment on it too

5500

There coilovers for sure,looking at the picture theres plenty of space to higher it if you like,you just need a coilover adjustment key to do it.

If the car feels bumpy at all the dampening may be set too hard,on the Teins if you look at the top of the shock theres like a nib which you can turn,if it wont turn by finger an allen key slots into the top,turn it anti-clockwise to soften it,make sure to soften all four together aswell.

In saying that over standard shocks they'l still be stiffer,ive got Tein's on my car and on soft dampen setting there still very stiff but worth getting used to.

TOM's exhaust is by no means cheap either,can you see if its just a back box or does it look like bigger stainless piping running from the cat back?

Id be more inclined to keep the car knowing the previous owner went to the hassle of adding such good parts,doesnt looki anyway boy racerish from the pictures and probably handles sweetly.

Theres a grounding kit on there too (all the red wires coming from the battery) Id put money that if you take off the airfilter cover theres something aftermarket in there too.

Personally if i was after importing that car with all those bits on it id be delighted,as said its been modded with good parts i wouldnt be in a rush to sell it at all

Our man in Havana

Did the VRT inspector pass any comment on those mods?

maidhc

I hate "modified" (or in an Irish context "skangerised") cars with a passion, but it would be a sin to remove all that expensive kit... it is more than just halfords junk!

The spoiler I car see good reason for taking off, but the rest of the car looks very nice indeed.

Atomic Pineapple

Bond-007 wrote:

Did the VRT inspector pass any comment on those mods?

I seriously doubt it, when my brother brought his clio to get it vrt'd they just looked out the window at the car and then just charged him the price he had got on the internet as he had printed this out and brought it with him

Esel

draffodx wrote:

I seriously doubt it, when my brother brought his clio to get it vrt'd they just looked out the window at the car and then just charged him the price he had got on the internet as he had printed this out and brought it with him

They probably took pity on him!

Atomic Pineapple

esel wrote:

They probably took pity on him!

somebody had to

_Kaiser_

I'd keep it OP. looks like the last owner put a lot of money into it and it looks good (agree about losing the spoiler though). Doesn't look boy racer-ish to me at all. Seems like you got a bargain.

NicOda

Some quality bits on ur car. Keep it as is but remove the spoiler and if you want to remove the tints its quite easy with warm water with some car shampoo or fairy liquid in it and they will come off a treat.
Well ware shes a minter:) . The world would be a far nicer place if all Yaris's were like that.

blobert

eireal wrote:

There coilovers for sure,looking at the picture theres plenty of space to higher it if you like,you just need a coilover adjustment key to do it.

If the car feels bumpy at all the dampening may be set too hard,on the Teins if you look at the top of the shock theres like a nib which you can turn,if it wont turn by finger an allen key slots into the top,turn it anti-clockwise to soften it,make sure to soften all four together aswell.

In saying that over standard shocks they'l still be stiffer,ive got Tein's on my car and on soft dampen setting there still very stiff but worth getting used to.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I'm happy enough with the car the way it is, my main concern is sorting out the two problems I listed originally.

Will I be able to adjust the suspension myself if I get a "coilover adjustment key" or will the car need to be raised up/off its wheels? Where can I get this key? Is raising the height likely to stop the problem of the tires rubbing?

I will try adjusting the dampeners also, it's very very rough on anything but the smoothest roads, ie the whole car shakes loudly, cd player stops, parcel shelf rattles loudly. I've driven other Jap import Yaris's and the ride, while fairly stiff was nothing like this. Similar to adjusting the suspension height will I be able to adjust the dampening without raising the car. It looks like it could be very difficult to reach by hand, any suggestions on how to do it would be much appreciated.

In answer to other questions: Yes, that is my actual car in the pictures and no the VRT people did not inspect my car (or anyone elses as far as I could see). They just went on the figures I gave them.

BostonB

Nice car for a Yaris.

I doubt you'll get the ride quality you are looking for by adjustments only. A cheap first thing to try would be to make the adjustment and try a set of 15" (set of steel wheels should be easy to source cheaply, or borrow) with a thicker tyre. If that doesn't work you are looking at changing springs and/or struts.

We notice a big difference between our cars, one has a sports suspension which is great some of the time. But the other is a fairly soft suspension, and actually the shocks are past their best. But around town, with the bad surfaces, speed ramps the latter car is better all things considered.

5500

You wont need to jack the car or remove the wheels to change the dampening



Just turn the piece thats in the pink square in the picture anticlock wise.

You can adjust the height with the shocks still by jacking up and removing the wheel but Its better to remove them and either ways make sure each shock is at the correct measurement,ie dont have the front left at say 35mm and front right and 45mm,if your wary of this leave it be with a mechanic.The adjuster looks something like this



And attachs on to the bottom of the shock to ring nut

blobert

Thanks a million for that, I'll have a go at the damperners myself, will leave the shocks to the mechanic (I'm assuming they'll have this tool?). Wanted to bring the car in for a service anyway so I can add this to the list of things to be done...

Just went out and had a look at the car, could not find the bits in question to begin with, the shocks seemed to go right up into the car. Then had a look in the boot and found these on both sides under some custom made panels:



I assume these are what I'm looking for.

I then found the eqivalent ones under the bonnet which I'm sure are the right ones as they say TEIN on them:)



Before I go adjusting them, tell me how far should I turn them anticlockwise? Is it ok to turn them as far as they'll go (to make them as soft as possible) or should I just do one turn each, etc?

I also took a few shots of the wheel when it's fully locked and rubbing. It's hard to tell what's going on but this one seems to suggest the wheel is rubbing on the chassis:



Not sure if raising the suspension will do much if that is the case, perhaps the 16" wheels are just too big?

5500

Yep you found what your looking for,they'l only go so far anti clockwise which is when you'l know there at there softest,theres a chance there already soft as it is though!

Just go around and do them one at a time,what width are your tyres?

TychoCaine

In your case either the original owner fitted stupidly wide wheels that shouldn't ever be on a Yaris, or he didn't make sure the offset (the distance between the centreline of the wheel rim and the inside of the centre) was suitable for the car. You can use wheel spacers to fix offset problems. Spacers sit between the hub and the inside of the alloy and therefore move the inside of the rim further away from the inside of the wheel arch, which should sort your problem. Along with the issues you're seeing with wheel rub, an incorrect offset puts additional stress on the suspension joints and wear out the bushes early. It also messes up your suspension geometry.

Boy racers love them because they move the wheels out so wide arch kits don't look totally stupid. You should find them in Halfords or any car bits shop that caters to the "modified motor scene".

Rowley Birkin QC

Minus the spoiler thats a nice looking car.

blobert

Hello Again,

I softened all 4 dampeners, they all turned about 4-5 times and the ride is definately a bit softer now but still quite rough.

Will raising the suspension actually help in this regard? I'm going to bring in the car for a service in a few days so can get the mechanic to do this if you think it will make a difference? There's no chance it will make the problem with the tyre rubbing worse is there? Regarding the spacers I did a bit of reading on the internet and it all seems to suggest these are very bad for your car and may do quite a bit of damage over time so not sure if they are a wise idea?



The tyres are: 185/55R15 by the way, you can see them in this shot:



And here is a close up:



Thanks for all the continued help guys, I appreciate it

blobert

Any further adice re: last post would be appreciated.

BostonB

blobert wrote:

....
The wheels are 16 inch so they may just be too big,...

blobert wrote:

....
The tyres are: 185/55R15 by the way, you can see them in this shot:...

I thought they didn't look like 16's. Might be an idea to check out some of the Yaris forums, and see what tires and offsets other peoples are using without rubbing. Also they'll know what kind of drop you can have on the springs to avoid rubbing. My guess (and its just guess) is you are going to have to change springs and shocks to get the ride you are looking for.

colm_mcm

We had a Yaris with 185/55 R15's and TTE lowered suspension without any problems.

BostonB

colm_mcm wrote:

We had a Yaris with 185/55 R15's and TTE lowered suspension without any problems.

I guess it comes down to personal preference. I had a MrkII Golf GTI once and had a nightmare trying to get uprated shocks/springs and lowered that weren't teeth rattling.

blobert

So the wheels are 15"? I tried measuring the circumference and thought they were 16", my mistake.. Hopefully this will make it easier to sort out the problems.

Incidentally, will raising the suspension actually help prevent the tyres rubbing? I'm going to bring in the car for a service in a few days so can get the mechanic to do this if you think it will make a difference? There's no chance it will make the problem with the tyre rubbing worse is there? Regarding the spacers I did a bit of reading on the internet and it all seems to suggest these are very bad for your car and may do quite a bit of damage over time so not sure if they are a wise idea?

If like Colm says he had a lowered Yaris without problems, perhaps the problem is something else.

Incidentally with this car just arriving from Japan and me being unsure of its service history (though it seems to have been very well maintained) should I go for a full service to make sure all is OK?

Thanks for the continued help and advice.

TychoCaine

blobert wrote:

Regarding the spacers I did a bit of reading on the internet and it all seems to suggest these are very bad for your car and may do quite a bit of damage over time so not sure if they are a wise idea?

Using spacers in the boy racer way, to widen the track, is a bad idea as it alters the suspension geometry. It may also increase suspension, steering and tyre wear. What I was suggesting is to use them to bring the wheel offset back into manufacturer spec. The wheels fitted to the car are bringing the inside edge of the tyre too close to the inside of the wheel well. This is either because the wheel is too wide, or the offset of the wheel is wrong and the wheel is further in than it should be. The only thing you can do if the tyre is too wide is buy new narrower ones. If the offset is wrong then the car as it is today has incorrect suspension geometry (possibly causing your poor ride) which can be corrected by either changing to alloys with the correct offset for the Yaris, or using spacers to replicate the correct offset.

Google says the correct offset for a Yaris is somewhere between 35mm and 42mm. The offset of the wheel may be stamped either on the inside or outside surface of the alloy. Subtracting one number from the other will give you an idea of what spacer will bring your wheel back to manufacturer spec.

p.s. Buy my car!

AlanAhern

hi mate, normally with coilovers it doesnt matter how soft you make them they will always be hard if you know what i mean. If you want a softer ride you are better off getting standard shocks and springs or uprated gas shocks and springs. you might get a buyer for these coilovers if you advertise them. if you find out what other cars they fit i might be interested in them myself.
Regards the tinted windows, the best thing to use is a hairdryer, soap and water is too messy!! Also when the film is removed use a small amount of petrol to remove the sticky residue. hope this helps.

BostonB

TychoCaine wrote:

...If the offset is wrong then the car as it is today has incorrect suspension geometry (possibly causing your poor ride) which can be corrected by either changing to alloys with the correct offset for the Yaris, or using spacers to replicate the correct offset. ...

I can't imagine "incorrect suspension geometry" results in a bone rattling stiffness.

Henry Ford III

Increasing the ride height on hard dampers and low profile tyres won't increase ride comfort I'd have thought.

BostonB

AlanAhern wrote:

hi mate, normally with coilovers it doesnt matter how soft you make them they will always be hard if you know what i mean. If you want a softer ride you are better off getting standard shocks and springs or uprated gas shocks and springs. you might get a buyer for these coilovers if you advertise them. if you find out what other cars they fit i might be interested in them myself.
Regards the tinted windows, the best thing to use is a hairdryer, soap and water is too messy!! Also when the film is removed use a small amount of petrol to remove the sticky residue. hope this helps.

I can't but agree with AlanAhern on the suspension.