omaha hand... right or wrong push??

dougee19

please dont put this in the bad beat thread, would love proper discussion about this hand because to me its very interesting as to what the right move is here


stacks here are
i've been on the table for only 3 hands but had been watching before hand, button, sb and utg are tight players whereas other two had been more outgoing and call a lot more on smaller draws.
had to write it by hand because internet cafe blocked where the hand histories are... no need to comment on that :P
basically copied an old hand history from a different site and changed names etc

Jotaele11 $5,427.50 ,
ChipsChipp $819.00 ,
michaeld18 $1,110.00 ,
sendmemore (D) $6,956.00 ,
Zaicick $2,664.50 ,
cashrichboy $1,330.44


Zaicick posts the small blind of $10
cashrichboy posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to omahahahi [5d 9h Qs Ah]
Jotaele11 folds
ChipsChipp folds
michaeld18 raises to $70
sendmemore folds
Zaicick calls $60
cashrichboy calls $50
*** FLOP *** [9c 2s Jc]
Zaicick checks
cashrichboy checks
michaeld18 checks
*** TURN *** [9c 2s Jc] [9d]
Zaicick checks
cashrichboy bets $210
michaeld18 raises to $840


i obviously lost the pot since i posted it...
im just wondering, what do the players think of the play here???
i still dont think its a bad move.. would prefer pushing than flat calling(just personal preference)
comments would really be appreciated in this hand. thanks

RoundTower

I think this is good, 9xxx is more likely than a boat especially if as you say he is a loose player.

mrflash

this is a crazy move, how can you make this move, you dont have a jack or a 2 in your hand to assume he doesn't have a pair of either and your kicker with the nine isn't great either. i think you call and hope to hit a boat on the river and even then i wouldn't go mad. the fact that he is a lag doesn't really change things. if i had a penny for every time i lost with hands like this one before i learned how to play, well ok a euro then, i would have a lot of money. i wouldn't even bet this on the river unless i the case nine came down.

Captain Tom

dave how do you play this with 100bb stacks?

if you call turn do u ever call blank river?

RoundTower

Not against cashrichboy but against someone else maybe.

Ace2007

Am i reading this wrong or something:

Dealt to omahahahi [5d 9h Qs Ah] - this is u??

and if so why does omahahahi's name disappear in the whole txt???

DeadParrot

Its marginal at best dougee
Its a standard if he calls you he's beating you hand imo, any nine with clubs will call, made boat obv call and you may even get a Q108x caller too.

5starpool

Ace2007 wrote:

Am i reading this wrong or something:

Dealt to omahahahi [5d 9h Qs Ah] - this is u??

and if so why does omahahahi's name disappear in the whole txt???

I believe because Dougie19 has taken to editing his user name to Omahahihi in his posts despite using his actual SN previously in HH's, but he didn't edit it enough in this post.

dougee19

5starpool wrote:

I believe because Dougee19 has taken to editing his user name to Omahahihi in his posts despite using his actual SN previously in HH's, but he didn't edit it enough in this post.

nope!!!

like i said on the first post i had to write this hand history by myself instead of using the written one i normally get, i looked at one of my old posts and got a hand i had posted before but it was from my full tilt account with that username, i copied and pasted it and changed what i thought was everything to what happened in this pot... just didnt notice the username cause i'm used to seeing that...
look at my original post!!!!
and i'd appreciate comments on the hand rather than mistakes in writing the history...
just saying...


in relation to this hand...
q-10-8-x will call me??
2 questions... why???!!!! and... if he does, dont i want that??



one question actually, should i ever take the sb still being in the hand into consideration here?

and appreciate your reply roundtower, glad to see someone is agreeing with me

5starpool

My post was replying to Ace2007 just dougee, it wasn't aimed at you. I will post my reply to the thread in a min for what it's worth.

DeadParrot

dougee19 wrote:

in relation to this hand...
q-10-8-x will call me??
2 questions... why???!!!! and... if he does, dont i want that??

May even get a call is what I said
and I obviously left out the little club thingys
Not saying this is a bad thing but it IS quite a heavy board

5starpool

I am a different type of player to you Dougee, but this hand is one i would find less fault with than normal. I wouldn't have raised preflop though with that hand. After the flop is checked round it is fair to assume one of two things:

1. Everyone missed pretty much, or
2. Someone is waiting for you to CB.

Chances are mostly it is 1. The fact that you did not bet the flop probably allows them to bet the turn lighter than they normally would, and your A9 here is looking good. I would probably reraise in this spot too, although there is merit in calling in postition as well in order to let him bet the river. If you shove turn you are mostly only getting called by a better hand since a draw should not be too keen on the price on a paired board. If you call turn bet he will bet again with a weaker 9 sometimes, as well as sometimes try to bet with nothing (unless he has a reason not to against you in particular), while also obv betting with hands you beat.

I think you win more when you are ahead by calling is my summary, but raising isn't terrible.

As I said though these are players I have no history with.

DeadParrot

5starpool wrote:

I am a different type of player to you Dougee, but this hand is one i would find less fault with than normal. I wouldn't have raised preflop though with that hand. After the flop is checked round it is fair to assume one of two things:

1. Everyone missed pretty much, or
2. Someone is waiting for you to CB.

Chances are mostly it is 1. The fact that you did not bet the flop probably allows them to bet the turn lighter than they normally would, and your A9 here is looking good. I would probably reraise in this spot too, although there is merit in calling in postition as well in order to let him bet the river. If you shove turn you are mostly only getting called by a better hand since a draw should not be too keen on the price on a paired board. If you call turn bet he will bet again with a weaker 9 sometimes, as well as sometimes try to bet with nothing (unless he has a reason not to against you in particular), while also obv betting with hands you beat.

I think you win more when you are ahead by calling is my summary, but raising isn't terrible.

As I said though these are players I have no history with.

put more eloquently than I ever could

Ace2007

so does omahahahi = michaeld18?

5starpool

yes

Ace2007

like 5starpool i wouldn't have raise with this hand preflop, as for raising on the turn- why are u doin that, this is shocking imo, if a player is calling $70 preflop, he must have a good hand, possible 910JQ or JJQK etc, and in which case is ahead of you. all you have is trip 9's, thats all and as Mrflash said,even if you "hit ur boat on the river" i wouldn't go mad as ur never going to have the nuts, unless the fourth 9 comes down on the river...

cardshark202

This seems ok, preflop is a little questionable though since your hand isn't very good.

kpnuts

Hi Dougee,
I watched this hand play out before I joined the action last night, but I won't spoil the surprise ending to the story.

I play the turn the same as you, given the action so far (though I wouldn't be raising that trash pre-flop, especially with chipped-up Sendmemore on the button).

You weren't raising pre-flop much last night, and when you were you were exercising plenty of pot control, i.e. not continue betting too much on missed flops. Therefore I would not have expected players to be waiting quietly in the long grass for you to pot the turn if they had a big flopped hand.

Cashrichboy likely to have QT8x type hand here so I will definitely raise turn, happy to take it down since I haven't boated but not too displeased if he calls either (though he is good enough to fold full wrap on paired board so you're probably going to need to hit between 1 and 6 outs if he calls!).

dougee19

5starpool wrote:

I am a different type of player to you Dougee, but this hand is one i would find less fault with than normal. I wouldn't have raised preflop though with that hand. After the flop is checked round it is fair to assume one of two things:

1. Everyone missed pretty much, or
2. Someone is waiting for you to CB.

Chances are mostly it is 1. The fact that you did not bet the flop probably allows them to bet the turn lighter than they normally would, and your A9 here is looking good. I would probably reraise in this spot too, although there is merit in calling in postition as well in order to let him bet the river. If you shove turn you are mostly only getting called by a better hand since a draw should not be too keen on the price on a paired board. If you call turn bet he will bet again with a weaker 9 sometimes, as well as sometimes try to bet with nothing (unless he has a reason not to against you in particular), while also obv betting with hands you beat.

I think you win more when you are ahead by calling is my summary, but raising isn't terrible.

As I said though these are players I have no history with.

as for the raise preflop, i raise in position when i have been card dead for a while, like to have a loose enough image on the table and get involved in pots and prefer raising pots than calling raises, and in that position with that hand i see nothing wrong with a raise there.
i actually had no history with these players either, this was my first night on pp omaha in over 4 months so wasnt used to them, just watching them before playing really helped.
thinking about what happened though, i still cant see how a call with those stacks is good, this is 100% personal opinion only really

if you are calling you're giving him a chance to hit the river and take down a pot that could have been yours on the turn if he has any kind of draw which doesnt include trips really... so you're giving him a free shot to take down 630 in my eyes, ever if he has 9-2 or j-9 which against this player i thought was very unlikely you still have a small few outs, only hand that has u really crushed is aqj9 or jj and in my eyes it was very unlikely that cashrichboy had that, so i think a push on the turn is the best move...
i'd like a good debate on this actually, normally dont like talking about hands in detail but would love a generalisation of what to do in this situation

dougee19

kpnuts wrote:

Hi Dougee,
I watched this hand play out before I joined the action last night, but I won't spoil the surprise ending to the story.

I play the turn the same as you, given the action so far (though I wouldn't be raising that trash pre-flop, especially with chipped-up Sendmemore on the button).

You weren't raising pre-flop much last night, and when you were you were exercising plenty of pot control, i.e. not continue betting too much on missed flops. Therefore I would not have expected players to be waiting quietly in the long grass for you to pot the turn if they had a big flopped hand.

Cashrichboy likely to have QT8x type hand here so I will definitely raise turn, happy to take it down since I haven't boated but not too displeased if he calls either (though he is good enough to fold full wrap on paired board so you're probably going to need to hit between 1 and 6 outs if he calls!).

thanks for not spoiling it, just cause then people would probably have commented it on a different manner and i like the way this hand played out to be honest... even though i did lose it

as for sendmemore, he was a very passive player and was very very unlikely to get involved in a pot with me, i think he played 3 pots with me all night, he was just guarding his stack and only got involved when he had to and never re-raised anyone with a big enough stack, (700+). he was happy with the money he had so i went stealing his button

i think i played well last night and focused on my game, really appreciate the kind words, and the flop betting, only bet when i thought i could take the pot or when i had the hand, so had control of most pots i was in

and i was thinking the same thing about the long grass.. but thinking back, the hand was played well by my opponent and credit is due there, i had written more but then people would read into it and try and guess what he had, i dont want that here


and i had cashrichboy on the same hand when i pushed but just ended up sour for me. still thinking about it though, im not sure if i consider it a bad play or not. for once i dont think i did anything bad there, :rolleyes: