Tournament Raising

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 12:11am #1

Hey guys just wondering, been in this situation a couple of times in the last week. First instance, blinds were 25/25 startin stack 2500, im in BB 3 limpers and i have QQ - wat is the norm for raising??? i made it 175(all 3 limpers called)- good/bad?? -i rarely ever get big hands early on in tournaments so am unsure..

Second time, blinds were 25/50,starting stack 3500, i get KK on the button, 2 limpers, i raise to??
i made it 325- again good/bad??

I made a joke both times - about having no respect(i usually say that anyhow if 3 or more ppl call), but on the first occasion above i got the reply "ur not raisin it enough" by some smart ass kid... Also both tournaments are rebuy.

P.S i know i said i never raise in previous posts - but thats mainly in FO tournaments - whereby ppl aren't messin about....

Captain Tom · 31-07-2007 12:17am

just make a pot sized raise or slightly more if they're playing really loose. 3x the last bet plus whatever else is in the pot.

actually come to think of it i remember playing tournaments on irish eyes where people would call raises with a huge range of hands at the 25/25 level. i guess when the blinds are so low in relation to the stack just raise a lot more. maybe like 250 in hand 1. 2 looks fine.

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 12:20am

Captain Tom wrote:

just make a pot sized raise or slightly more if they're playing really loose. 3x the last bet plus whatever else is in the pot.

yea thats what i normally do - but this kid was saying no one is going to fold for only 175 or whatever i bet.... which got me thinking...

gerry87 · 31-07-2007 12:22am

3BB's + 1 per limper is what i usually do

Fremen · 31-07-2007 12:43am

It kind of depends on how much a rebuy costs. It's often the case that people will play far looser if they can rebuy, sometimes to the extent that they'll play any ace to a raise and shove with any pair.
An extreme example of this would be the jackpot 5 euro rebuy, where on any hand there could be four players all-in.

I would typically raise three to four BBs during the early stages in a freezeout, but up to a third or even half of my stack in a loose rebuy game

Blip · 31-07-2007 12:52am

If you've played this tourney before then you probably know its a little too low, however you have the third best starting hand and are looking for some action, if flop comes rags then a large bet should take it down anyway.

The same for the second hand, although limpers calling raises are a little scary more times than not its dead money (chips) after the flop

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 12:57am

yea i was thinkin after that the bet pre flop was a bit low - btw the flop did me no favours - AAK - yikes

Van Dice · 31-07-2007 1:16am

Ace2007 wrote:

i rarely ever get big hands early on in tournaments so am unsure..

Ace2007 wrote:

P.S i know i said i never raise in previous posts - but thats mainly in FO tournaments - whereby ppl aren't messin about....

I don't understand either of these

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 1:24am

wats there to understand - i rarely ever get QQ+ in early level of tournaments when blinds are so small, e.g if blinds are 100/200 and there are 2 limpers i have no problem making it 1K + cause only good hands will call you, but when the blinds are 25/25, a pot size bet with 2 limpers is 150, and some ppl will see this as insignificant in relation to stack sizes...

as for the secnd quote i was slated in previous posts as to how i play high PP's in FO's

ditpoker · 31-07-2007 1:30am

convention says stick out 3bb's or 3bb's plus 1 limper... give a about 6 month's and some upshot yank over on the 2+2 forums will make post some compelling rant about how bet sizing of 3bb's is toooo standard and you gotta start betting 5bb or 6bb. its like the way it started to be cool to lead with top set to disguise your strength (i.e. "well he cant have it if he bet in" logic) , then it became the norm and check raising died a death and it started to be read as "making a move"... i think lazare posted something about the evolution of the check-raise... cant find the post (didnt look)...

be that wizz kid... start smooth calling with your big hands early, start betting 450 at 25-50 with 4s5d... be predicatbly unpredictable...

ultimately.... if you always only bet QQ or KK this way you're doing something wrong. variety is the spice of life! try the flat call and hope one of the blinds opens the betting, then when the serial limpers flat call you pump it up!!!

ditpoker · 31-07-2007 1:31am

Ace2007 wrote:

wats there to understand - i rarely ever get QQ+ in early level of tournaments when blinds are so small, e.g if blinds are 100/200 and there are 2 limpers i have no problem making it 1K + cause only good hands will call you, but when the blinds are 25/25, a pot size bet with 2 limpers is 150, and some ppl will see this as insignificant in relation to stack sizes...

as for the secnd quote i was slated in previous posts as to how i play high PP's in FO's

you get them as often at this level and as often as everyone else.

Captain Tom · 31-07-2007 1:34am

Ace2007 wrote:

wats there to understand - i rarely ever get QQ+ in early level of tournaments when blinds are so small, e.g if blinds are 100/200 and there are 2 limpers i have no problem making it 1K + cause only good hands will call you, but when the blinds are 25/25, a pot size bet with 2 limpers is 150, and some ppl will see this as insignificant in relation to stack sizes...

is it just me or are you making 2 entirely separate points in this sentance?

Van Dice · 31-07-2007 1:38am

Ace2007 wrote:

wats there to understand - i rarely ever get QQ+ in early level of tournaments when blinds are so small, e.g if blinds are 100/200 and there are 2 limpers i have no problem making it 1K + cause only good hands will call you, but when the blinds are 25/25, a pot size bet with 2 limpers is 150, and some ppl will see this as insignificant in relation to stack sizes...

as for the secnd quote i was slated in previous posts as to how i play high PP's in FO's

lol there's a lot to understand.

this makes no sense ->

Ace2007 wrote:

i rarely ever get QQ+ in early level of tournaments when blinds are so small

this makes no sense ->

Ace2007 wrote:

if blinds are 100/200 and there are 2 limpers i have no problem making it 1K + cause only good hands will call you

Ace2007 wrote:

as for the secnd quote i was slated in previous posts as to how i play high PP's in FO's

i have no idea what you got slated for but the two hands you posted look fine, and I see nothing wrong with bet sizes

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 1:38am

My main point is, ppl will call with a higher range when a pot size bet is relatively small at 25/25 but are less likely to call a pot size bets wit the same range at 100/200... r is that just me?

therefore do ppl usually bet more than pot size when the blinds are so low?

ditpoker · 31-07-2007 1:47am

depends why you are betting... do you WANT action, or dont you? if you wanna play a big pot or not. AA, KK, QQ are good STARTING hands... they are not good hands.. they are GOOD STARTING HANDS... AA is good if you get it all in preflop (maybe on the flop) but if you find yourself getting involved in an action pot with 2 players on a JT4,9,7 with 3 hearts on it your AA is a bag of sh1te!! if you want action, play QQ for set value early doors... limp in, reassess the flop... or pump it to 700, you will either get involved with 1 player probably with all the action preflop, or you will win a small pot. better to win a small pot than to lose a big one.

Ace2007 · 31-07-2007 1:51am

ditpoker wrote:

better to win a small pot than to lose a big one.

unfortunely my theory is the same for all poker tournaments - double the startin stack before the break or go home early which means i want action:D

this is mainly the reason behind me going deep or going home early...

Van Dice · 31-07-2007 3:00am

ditpoker wrote:

if you want action, play QQ for set value early doors... limp in, reassess the flop... or pump it to 700, you will either get involved with 1 player probably with all the action preflop, or you will win a small pot.

I think you will frequently lose a big pot playing QQ like this

RoundTower · 31-07-2007 5:18am

If you play poorly postflop people will often call your raises with weak hands.

During the rebuy period if I pick up QQ or KK I might just go all in.

LuckyLloyd · 31-07-2007 7:00am

This post has been deleted.

cardshark202 · 31-07-2007 12:08pm

I usually make it 4xBB + 1bb per limper or something like that in the early stage. Whatever you do, don't play QQ for set value/raise half your stack. Thats a recipe for disaster. In the later stages, my raise sizing is usually slighly less, as I will be stealing a higher proportion of the time. The size will be something like 3xbb + 1bb per each limper.

In rebuys I often just go all in lots or raise inordinate amounts preflop.

Tournament Raising

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