Beginner to photography

lalalalinda

Hi, I'm a newbie to photography so excuse my innocence!

The only camera I have had experience with are digital ones and even then it's pretty simple stuff. I have an old Canon Powershot - it's not much use but it does the job. I'm looking to buy an SLR camera but to be honest, I wouldn't even know how to use it.

Although I'm a beginner, I've been interested in photography for a while. I have a good idea on what makes a good picture and what doesn't but I don't know much about HOW to get that good picture with a SLR. For example, I am totally confused by exposure, apeture, shutter speed, ISO, fast/slow film etc. so it's gonna take a while to understand that but everyone is welcome to try and enlighten me on that!

Wow..I've wandered on a bit...anyway, can anyone recommend a good SLR camera that isn't too beginnerish (I want this one to last me)

EDIT: By the way, which is more common these days, DSLR or SLR and what would you recommend? There's not much advantage over a DSLR except that you can see the photo you've taken on the screen. Is that right?

magicbastarder

'SLR' would still be fairly exclusively used for film SLRs.

Fajitas!

Well, it really depends on what angle your coming from, and how much you want to spend.

You can really spend anything from 100 quid to 1000 quid on a beginners set up, depending on whether you want digital or film, new or second hand.

There's plenty of second hand DSLRs on eBay at the moment.

Do you have any interest in doing a class or course in it?

Glowing

"Understanding Exposure", Bryan Peterson

You can't go wrong with this book - and I know he has many fans here ......

JMcL

Glowing wrote:

"Understanding Exposure", Bryan Peterson

You can't go wrong with this book - and I know he has many fans here ......

Second that. He explains in very clear and unintimidating language everything you need to know about exposure and gives a good platform to build on.

Regarding a camera, all the entry level models at the moment are pretty capable. They all come with options for a kit lens ranging in or around 18mm to 50mm. The lenses generally are ok, if not brilliant, but will give you a feel for the whole thing. Don't rush out day one and buy a sack full of expensive lenses, stick with one until you get a handle on the basics.

Most of all, enjoy!!

mikeanywhere

Fajitas! wrote:

Do you have any interest in doing a class or course in it?

I think this would help give you a good kick start. I used and would recommend this lot

lalalalinda

Thanks for the recommendations. I might be interested in a course, and I'll definitely try and get that book but I forget to mention my budget. I'm looking at around 300-400euro, hopefully less if I get a second hand one. What about this one?

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=9746&cat=32

I don't think I'll go for a DSLR , they're probably more expensive. And, although I don't understand this yet, you won't be able to use fast/slow film techniques or stuff to do with ISO.

Fajitas!

You'll still be able to use high and low ISO with a digital camera, in fact, it's easier than film - you just have to change some settings, rather than use a roll of film, before changing ISO.

RCNPhotos

I'd reccomend a portfolio course, a city and guids. Really helped me out and you also get a qualification at the end which is handy. Their a full year though so a fair comitment. Sallynoggin was great

Paulw

RCNPhotos wrote:

I'd reccomend a portfolio course, a city and guids.

Aside from Sallynoggin, do you know any other places that do such courses?

nilhg

lalalalinda wrote:

Thanks for the recommendations. I might be interested in a course, and I'll definitely try and get that book but I forget to mention my budget. I'm looking at around 300-400euro, hopefully less if I get a second hand one. What about this one?

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=9746&cat=32

I don't think I'll go for a DSLR , they're probably more expensive. And, although I don't understand this yet, you won't be able to use fast/slow film techniques or stuff to do with ISO.

Have you considered the ongoing costs if you buy a film camera, unless you are going to do the developing yourself the cost of getting non standard consumer film done seems to be quite high and it can be hard to get them done properly. Thonda can probably comment more on this.

Of course if you buy digital you need a reasonably decent PC/MAC and software which you may or may not already have.

DaireQuinlan

nilhg wrote:

Have you considered the ongoing costs if you buy a film camera, unless you are going to do the developing yourself the cost of getting non standard consumer film done seems to be quite high and it can be hard to get them done properly. Thonda can probably comment more on this.

Of course if you buy digital you need a reasonably decent PC/MAC and software which you may or may not already have.

Thats pretty expensive for a 2nd hand f55 aswell !, I'd check out conns cameras in town or Bermingham for 2nd hand gear

http://www.connscameras.ie/flat_areaEQLproductsAMPCategoryIDEQL163_entry.html
or
http://www.berminghamcameras.ie/store/index.php?target=categories&category_id=209

They can be pricey, but you get a 6 month warranty on all their 2nd hand bodies (in conns at least) and a years warranty on the lenses IIRC. I picked up a 2nd hand F4 in conns for 200 euros a few months back. Hasn't let me down once yet :-)

And as nilhg points out, depending on how much you shoot, film can be a huge expense. If you shoot slide then bank on 8/9 euros a roll for the film and then another 6.50 development only. Though there are cheaper consumer films. But 8/9 euros for development with prints of 36 exp film is the norm. Alternatively you can shoot B&W and develop it yourself for next to nothing once you've got your initial setup.

-edit- LOL I notice both my URLs above point firmly toward the Nikon only section of the two shops. :-) -edit-

magicbastarder

DaireQuinlan wrote:

And as nilhg points out, depending on how much you shoot, film can be a huge expense. If you shoot slide then bank on 8/9 euros a roll for the film and then another 6.50 development only. Though there are cheaper consumer films. But 8/9 euros for development with prints of 36 exp film is the norm. Alternatively you can shoot B&W and develop it yourself for next to nothing once you've got your initial setup.

i may be wrong, but i think velvia is €6.50 a roll; €6.50 processing. so €13, and you still need to scan.
you could pick up a secondhand film camera for about €200 with a standard zoom; so you'd have €300 to burn on film before you caught up with a DSLR. that'd be about 1000 shots, based on shooting slide as above. probably double that for b&w, dev only.

DaireQuinlan

magicbastarder wrote:

i may be wrong, but i think velvia is €6.50 a roll; €6.50 processing. so €13, and you still need to scan.
you could pick up a secondhand film camera for about €200 with a standard zoom; so you'd have €300 to burn on film before you caught up with a DSLR. that'd be about 1000 shots, based on shooting slide as above. probably double that for b&w, dev only.

Hey ! Where are you getting your Velvia for 6.50 a roll ?!? Last bunch of rolls of rvp100 I bought in the fuji place on abbey street and I think they were 8.50 a roll. Of course as you point out there's always the scanning. I blew 600 euros on a coolscan V. Thats a d40 right there :-)

lalalalinda

Hmm..so with DSLR's it's the same concept as digital cameras, you have a memory card and you can get photos developed from them, or else put them on your computer? this might be easier. Damn, I thought I'd be able to get set for photography before I go on holidays which is where I wanna shoot.

I'll have to have a think about it...I suppose there will be other photo oppurtunities!

magicbastarder

DaireQuinlan wrote:

Hey ! Where are you getting your Velvia for 6.50 a roll ?!? Last bunch of rolls of rvp100 I bought in the fuji place on abbey street and I think they were 8.50 a roll. Of course as you point out there's always the scanning. I blew 600 euros on a coolscan V. Thats a d40 right there :-)

the fuji place on abbey street is the most expensive place i know to buy prepaid sensia; €14 there, €13 in the camera exchange and gunns.
i never buy film in the fuji place, usually in the other two places.

Biro

lalalalinda wrote:

Hmm..so with DSLR's it's the same concept as digital cameras, you have a memory card and you can get photos developed from them, or else put them on your computer? this might be easier. Damn, I thought I'd be able to get set for photography before I go on holidays which is where I wanna shoot.

I'll have to have a think about it...I suppose there will be other photo oppurtunities!

Why don't you get a digital bridge camera like one of the fuji ones? You'll get most of the manual features of a DSLR for half the price. Granted you're stuck with the one lens, but by the sounds of it, you're new to photography and it'll be more than enough to teach you practically everything.

lalalalinda

Biro wrote:

Why don't you get a digital bridge camera like one of the fuji ones? You'll get most of the manual features of a DSLR for half the price. Granted you're stuck with the one lens, but by the sounds of it, you're new to photography and it'll be more than enough to teach you practically everything.

Would that be pretty similar to an ordinary digital camera though?

Although I'm new, I'll be taking a lot of shots and as soon as i learn how, I'll be using different lens. Alright, i'll only need a couple (and money will be a problem!) but I'd like the variety that comes with DSLR's, and without the hassle of SLR's.

Does anyone know if cameras in America are cheaper?

Fajitas!

Indeed they are. Where are you going in the states?

lalalalinda

Boston, New York, New Jersey...dunno really! The first two definitely!

Fajitas!

B&H Camera's in NY is your best bet.


Probably in the world.

dirtydress

Paulw wrote:

Aside from Sallynoggin, do you know any other places that do such courses?

I'm thinking of doing the BA in Photography at Griffith College Dublin, it looks really comprehensive and I think would be really interesting, here's the link:
http://www.gcd.ie/index.jsp?1nID=108&2nID=124&nID=221&aID=943 Griffith also do a one year photography certificate which is basically the first year of the B.A so check the above link for info! Hope that helps

lalalalinda

Fajitas! wrote:

B&H Camera's in NY is your best bet.


Probably in the world.

This looks good:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/494364-REG/Nikon__D40_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

nilhg

lalalalinda wrote:

This looks good:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/494364-REG/Nikon__D40_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

Oh God, you've gone and done it now!!! Just wait for the canonites to jump out of the bushes;)

magicbastarder

d40 is €590 in dublin, with €90 cash back if you register it. not sure if that offer is available for cameras bought in the states.
will the chargers for cameras bought in the states work off 230V?

lalalalinda

What? Why is it so cheap here?..

Don't get me wrong 590euro doesn't come easy to me but I thought it would be more expensive.

Fajitas!

Lol, nothing wrong with it, it's just a rivaling brand to what the majority of people here use!

Look up reviews online,

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/index.php?cat=14

That link will give you reviews on various different bodies from Canon and Nikon.

Why don't you pop into a camera shop over here in Ireland, and play around with some of them, and then decide?

lalalalinda

Yeah, I will do. Which camera shops do you recommend in town? I need somewhere thats not gonna scare me off...i.e helpful people!!! haha

Fajitas!

Gunns on Wexford st.

magicbastarder

i shop in gunns or the camera exchange.

JMcL

lalalalinda wrote:

Although I'm new, I'll be taking a lot of shots and as soon as i learn how, I'll be using different lens. Alright, i'll only need a couple (and money will be a problem!) but I'd like the variety that comes with DSLR's, and without the hassle of SLR's.

In that case I'd definitely recommend a DSLR over a film camera for learning. Aside from the ongoing film/development cost, with digital you get to see your results much more quickly, the aperture and exposure information are stored in the image files, so if something doesn't work, you can use these to work out why, and compare the effects of one against the other. You can also adjust the ISO on a shot by shot basis. This is much harder with film, unless you're willing to keep a notebook with entries for every shot.

DaireQuinlan wrote:

Hey ! Where are you getting your Velvia for 6.50 a roll ?!? Last bunch of rolls of rvp100 I bought in the fuji place on abbey street and I think they were 8.50 a roll. Of course as you point out there's always the scanning. I blew 600 euros on a coolscan V. Thats a d40 right there :-)

7dayshop are selling it for £3.60 a roll (about €5.50) - £68.99 if you get a 20 pack. They're flogging stock of the original Velvia 50 for £1.99

magicbastarder

JMcL wrote:

In that case I'd definitely recommend a DSLR over a film camera for learning.

i'm still a bit old school, in that i think having manual everything helps you learn things far quicker.

DaireQuinlan

magicbastarder wrote:

i'm still a bit old school, in that i think having manual everything helps you learn things far quicker.

Most DSLRs allow you to set manual everything right ? No doubt a bit awkwardly though, fiddling around with buttons and command dials and so on and so forth. These crazy kids with their new fangled electroniclal whizz bangs. Pshwah !

I'd agree with the above, for someone who wants to get into photography and has used digital P&Ss before, I'd probably grit my teeth and suggest an entry level DSLR for starters. Probably less expensive in the medium to long term, and I think if I were starting off again the ability to chimp all my shots would be an invaluable learning experience. The danger being that we may have lost another potential film convert to the growing ranks of the digitali :-) But they'll learn ! Oh yes, They'll learn !! muhahahahahaha !

lalalalinda

I went into Gunn's today. It was a small shop so I couldn't really look around which is what I wanted. I asked the woman about DSLR's and she gave me prices etc. and was nice but the conversation was a little limited and I couldn't come up with any other questions so I just left. I was hoping I could try a camera but they were kinda busy so I didn't ask! She should have offered...:o Ah, it was a bit stupid of me. But I did have a look around a couple of camera shops.

I don't think the D40 was quite as cheap as 590euro. Maybe I'm mistaken but it was something like 700euro with 90euro cash back...or maybe even more than that.

And as for DSLR vs SLR - there's no need for me to buy an SLR just to learn the ropes. Everything will just get more digital in the future so I might as well have the ease of a DSLR!!!

Hmm...to buy a camera now or not...

What is the next model 'up', so to speak, from a D40? And what is the Canon equivilant (I've got to give both Canon and Nikon a chance at this stage!!). I'm gonna read more reviews....

Benster

Next one up is the D80, a fine camera (my bro-in-law has one/had one til it was nicked...) and at 10 megapixels will give great pics you can print quite large.
I'm not sure what the Canon equivalent is, 300D, 400D? Anyone?
I myself use the next one up from the D80, a D200, more of a semi-pro body and it can, of course, take all the Nikon-compatible lenses. But I wouldn't recommend the D200 as a starter camera for one so new to the hobby, best to learn the ropes on something a bit cheaper.

Seriously though, any of those cameras can take a great pics if you use it properly. The brand doesn't matter so much as what you do with it. The reason most folk get caught up with a particular brand is usually cos the lenses only fit the one brand of camera, so once you start down that road, it's hard/expensive to change. And then you find, after a bit of use and experience, that the differences between the brands aren't that much after all. This is the path to enlightenment, glasshoppah. :-D

B.

lalalalinda

Yeah, you're right. I think as long as I get a decent DSLR it'll do.

Next thing to think about is where to buy it, seeing as I am going to America and it might be cheaper over there. But then there's the cashback that you can get here....but prices seem to vary a lot between shop to shop.

Fajitas!

The Canon 400D would be the equiv. of the d40x

Gunn's can be a bit frantic when it's busy, but Cathy is usually pretty good.

Try Conn's if you're just looking, larger shop, with more gear and staff. I would prefer the staff in Gunns tbh though.

lalalalinda

This looks like a good deal.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/494364-REG/Nikon__D40_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

Does this mean you get 2 lenses with it? If you go into 'Item includes' it says it includes D40 18-55mm lens, and then also says it comes with a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens...whatever that is. So basically I'm getting the camera body, as well as two 18-55mm lenses? Also comes with a memory card so good deal!

I think it was mentioned somewhere else that you have to pay 8% tax buying from the shop in New York. BUT I'm also staying in Boston so if I order it online maybe I can get it delivered there and avoid the tax

Oh, but there's also the chargers to think about...they'll be different over there.

Fajitas!

No, it's just the one lens unfortunatly.

I would advise you to look at either a 50mm 1.8 or a 70-300 to go along with it, if you're going to try and get 2 lenses - both are fairly cheap. And not the worst either!

Spyral

or an 18-200 vr if you have the cash will sort you pretty much all the time lol !

edit that said if you are a newb get a fuji s5600 or something. they are dirt cheap now and you can learn, then once if becomes limiting get a dslr.

lalalalinda

The lenses are almost as expensive as the body...:(

nilhg

lalalalinda wrote:

The lenses are almost as expensive as the body...:(

And thats only the cheap ones
Now you know why the companies want people to buy DSLR's, the opportunities to sell addons are almost endless.

jubi lee

you should try the following link out. it's an interactive page to show you the impact of aperture, f-stops etc.

http://dryreading.com/camera/index.html

jubi lee

yeah go check out b&h in the states, just remember you'll have sales tax on top and customs when bringing it back... i got my D80 for 800 euro from a shop on ebay.

excellent camera and i'm only starting out but have made great strides with it already. i wouldn't bother going for the D40 if it cost 600 quid approx, you might as well go for the D80 in that case. though it is approx 1200 euro here.

magicbastarder

lalalalinda wrote:

I don't think the D40 was quite as cheap as 590euro. Maybe I'm mistaken but it was something like 700euro with 90euro cash back...or maybe even more than that.

that's probably the D40x; a friend bought a D40 for €590 less than two weeks ago, in the camera exchange.

JMcL

magicbastarder wrote:

that's probably the D40x; a friend bought a D40 for €590 less than two weeks ago, in the camera exchange.

To quote yourself from another thread here, Jessops have the D40 kit for €540