DTT Trial HD channel FTA - fire up your USB sticks!

Zaphod

As confirmed by pbirney and dgently, the HD channel on the DTT trial is currently free-to-air (unencrypted). So anyone with a DVB-T PCI card or USB stick with the correct software should be able to view this channel.

You'll probably need a fairly high spec PC/laptop and suitable software with an MPEG4/H264/AVC codec. The PCI/USB device should also have a BDA driver.

Progdvb would be one choice for a software package and it has a link to the Elecard H264 codec (21 day licence).
http://www.progdvb.com/download_progdvb4x.html

AltDVB also supports BDA drivers and is optimised for MPEG4. But needs codecs to be properly setup.

Other possibilites are DVBviewer and MyTheatre (not freeware).
Alt. codecs include CoreAVC.

For the experts, TSReader Lite will give full readouts of bitrates etc. If someone manages to get it going, could they please report back the bitrate for the HD channel?

L1011

Can't get decent signal on that channel here, depsite having a proper PCI card and all...

ro2

What's the best PCI card for DVB-T?

togota

Just checked and the HD channel has only sound!
Didn't try yesterday...

watty

That means you have not got a working MPEG4 decoder for video.

togota

thx watty,

strange! I am able to view another HD test channel on sat!?

Mossy Monk

How many HD tst channels are there on this trial? One I thought.

togota

yes. only one test channel! I have a satellite dish picking up a different HD test channel. - maybe I'll try to install a different encoder...

Zaphod

ro2 wrote:

What's the best PCI card for DVB-T?

I don't think anyone here knows which is the best as there hasn't be much opportunity to test them out due to limited DVB-T availability. The Hauppauge ones have the advantage of being the most common. The bundled software is garbage though so you'd be better of with 3rd party packages. In general, however, it's fair to say that PCI cards are usually better than USB sticks in terms of performance.

togota wrote:

yes. only one test channel! I have a satellite dish picking up a different HD test channel. - maybe I'll try to install a different encoder...

Which HD test channel on satellite?

togota

ASTRA HD test channel on ASTRA 19.2.

here a forum thread on all HD test channels available:
http://dvbportal.dyn1.de/forum/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=433

Zaphod

The MPEG2 HD promo is on 12610, V, 22000 and 12168, V, 27500 both DVB-S. All the others are MPEG4 DVB-S2 - 12722, H, 22000; 11914, H, 27500

roverdublin

Will the Pinnacle PCTV Hybrid Pro Stick 330e work?

Zaphod

MYOB wrote:

Can't get decent signal on that channel here, depsite having a proper PCI card and all...

Probably a case of teaching grandmother to suck eggs, but have you tried a straight cable run direct from the aerial to the PCI card?

roverdublin wrote:

Will the Pinnacle PCTV Hybrid Pro Stick 330e work?

Once it has BDA drivers and is USB2 compatible, it should be fine. How CPU intensive depends on what sort of HD stream they're outputting. If it's anything like the BBC HD trial, it'll be pretty CPU heavy.

L1011

Zaphod wrote:

Probably a case of teaching grandmother to suck eggs, but have you tried a straight cable run direct from the aerial to the PCI card?

That requires putting my PC in the top of my wardrobe

And I have done so

macronot

Hi togota - did you get the video feed yet for the HD test channel. I'm also just receiving sound and a black picture. - Like you I can get the DVB-S2 signal no problem.

Does anyone know what variant of mpeg4 they are using?

Ice_Box

My TV has a built in DVB-T digital decoder. Its a 1080p Sharp LC42XD1E. Will this decoder work? I need to know before I spend a few quid on an ariel/booster. Im in Maynooth. Thanks friends.

L1011

Where in Maynooth? I'm south of the canal and you'll need a non-negligable aerial to pull signal on the HD channel in here - I've got a Colour King grid in the attic that gets Mux1 but not Mux2 or 3. It can definately be done and will probably be better north of the canal.

Ice_Box

MYOB wrote:

Where in Maynooth? I'm south of the canal and you'll need a non-negligable aerial to pull signal on the HD channel in here - I've got a Colour King grid in the attic that gets Mux1 but not Mux2 or 3. It can definately be done and will probably be better north of the canal.

Im in Parsons Hall which is probably as far south as you can get.

A friend of mine has one of those plug in ariels that looks like a small satellite dish. Ill borrow it and see what I get. ( Tried and failed using coat hangers :rolleyes: )

togota

Hi macronot,

No. I still receive only a black 'picture' with sound. Can anybody confirm that it is still FTA?
It could be that our dtt-receivers can handle only MPEG2 as it seems the HDTV broadcast on this channel is in MPEG4?!

togota

JDxtra

Yes, it's MPEG4 - you'll only get sound if your reciever can't handle it.

L1011

Ice_Box wrote:

Im in Parsons Hall which is probably as far south as you can get.

A friend of mine has one of those plug in ariels that looks like a small satellite dish. Ill borrow it and see what I get. ( Tried and failed using coat hangers :rolleyes: )

I couldn't pull above the noise floor on my PC using one of them (which I normally use for analogue off Kippure), never tried with my STB. I'm in Kingsbry.

Slicklink

macronot wrote:

Hi togota - did you get the video feed yet for the HD test channel. I'm also just receiving sound and a black picture. - Like you I can get the DVB-S2 signal no problem.

Does anyone know what variant of mpeg4 they are using?

MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

Zaphod

I had a bit of time spare yesterday before the match to try out the HD channel with a USB stick and a laptop, but didn't fair very well. Using a setup which works OK with the BBC HD channel on Astra with CoreAVC codec, AltDVB kept throwing up error messages. Almost looked as though some part of the stream is marked as mpeg2 instead of mpeg4. Pity I didn't have an internet connection to test out other codecs.

I did manage to get some info with TSReader, including the bitrate - will post a few pics in the days to come.

lucernarian

If sound counts as part of the stream, then that would be the problem. It's being broadcast in Mpeg2.

watty

Erem that is'nt a meaningfull statement. various kinds of sound are part of MPEG2 and MPEG4 specs. You can even have MPEG4 encoded video in an MPEG2 TS.

MPEG4 video can have MP2 sound, same as MPEG2, ACC. MPEG2 system can have sound that is not MP2.

Unless it is 5.1 Audio, MP2 is common for Stereo on MPEG4 video transmission. In the future when there is no MPEG2 with MP2 Audio, ACC stereo may be the norm.

Zaphod

Not a complete failure after all. I recorded the transport stream using TSReader and playback using media player classic. The VHF signal from Mullaghanish doesn't seem quite the same any more

Click on thumbnail in each case for larger pic.


HD Snapshot 1


HD Snapshot 2


MPEG4 bitrate of 16.62Mbps for HD.


MPEG2 bitrate of 3.4-4.5 Mbps for SD.


I've uploaded the 80MB .ts file shortly as the jpeg compression doesn't do the output justice.
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3195475761/RTE-DTT_HD.ts

Zaphod

The file also works with the Cyberlink H264 codec that comes with the trial version of PowerDVD 7.3, but seems to be more CPU intensive than CoreAVC.

Zaphod

Mainconcept H264 codec judders along.

weehamster

Any word if the Football final would be on HD Ireland today?

Zaphod

I hauled the laptop up to Dublin again on Sunday with the intention of setting it up to record the stream for the match. Never got round to it, unfortunately, and it was the wee small hours of Monday morning before I had another go.

The program being shown looked like something from Discovery?

Anyway I managed to get CoreAVC going in realtime with AltDVB, but had to turn off deblocking and interlacing and the colour was crap. AltDVB doesn't like CoreAVC for DVB-T HD it seems eventhough Core works fine for TSReader streams and for BBC HD on satellite.



Surprisingly, it was the Cyberlink PowerDVD codec that worked best with AltDVB, although it ran a little slowly.



AltDVB filter graph settings.

Ghost Train

Tried this today with alt-dvb, but the video stream seemed to be encrypted, unless it was a filter problem, but the encrypted icon was there
Will try again later

Zaphod

eolhc wrote:

Tried this today with alt-dvb, but the video stream seemed to be encrypted, unless it was a filter problem, but the encrypted icon was there
Will try again later

Everything shows up as encrypted, even RTÉ1, 2 etc.

The filters are probably wrong by default in AltDVB. If you are using CoreAVC, you need to go into the filter menu above and delete the 'CoreAVC Video Decoder' and then re-add it manually using the 'Add Filter' button in the top left.

Similarly, if you are using PowerDVD, make sure that the 'Cyberlink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD 7.x)' is added. The 'Cyberlink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD 7)' filter will not work.

As a side note, I'm not sure but I think that while CoreAVC is designed to work with Dual/Duo-Core processors, Cyberlink isn't optimised.

Ghost Train

Zaphod wrote:

Everything shows up as encrypted, even RTÉ1, 2 etc.

The filters are probably wrong by default in AltDVB. If you are using CoreAVC, you need to go into the filter menu above and delete the 'CoreAVC Video Decoder' and then re-add it manually using the 'Add Filter' button in the top left.

Similarly, if you are using PowerDVD, make sure that the 'Cyberlink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD 7.x)' is added. The 'Cyberlink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD 7)' filter will not work.

As a side note, I'm not sure but I think that while CoreAVC is designed to work with Dual/Duo-Core processors, Cyberlink isn't optimised.

Yes, I think you're right about it being a codec issue. Couldn't get the irish hd channel to work with the coreavc codec, but the coreavc codec works with bbc hd on satillite(although i think it doesn't show full frame).

Anyway tried the power dvd avc codec, and that works perfectly, just watched the highlights of the 2007 lenster hurling final.

Anyway hardware wise, capture card is hauppauge hvr-3000, cpu e6600, gfx 7900gs at 1280x1024, cpu usage about 30% for powerdvd codec

Playing back transport stream on my laptop (dual core 1.66ghz, ati x1300) with powerdvd 7 at 1680x1050 worked fine (looked sharp) although cpu usage was close to 100% (over the 2 cores which might suggest powerdvd is optimised for dual core but might have been settings i was using)

will upload a few screen captures later

edit: heres screen caps
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remlap

Fantastic screen-shots eolhc.

Downloading the .ts file now at a whooping speed of 2kb/s

Zaphod

It showed up as 52% CPU usage running in realtime on AltDVB on an Intel T2130 1.86GHz Duo thingy and crappy onboard Intel gfx chipset.



xs.to seems to have chewed up the earlier pics, so the TSReader HD bitrates again:


SD rates:


I see that eolhc's grabs of the match have no scores in the top left. The stuff from the satellite trucks usually does.

BTW I've tried various software packages to convert the .ts file to .mpg or DVD .vob but no good. HDTVtoMPEG2, HDTV2DVD and ConvertXtoDVD, which works with BBCHD, all fail or give garbage for output.

Zaphod

Another .ts grab of some scenes from around Dublin. Nice shots of the Luas bridge in Dundrum at sunrise.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=9cgsbztn49d

Unlike the earlier file, this one will only play back with PowerDVD 7.x codec - CoreAVC will not work.

Ghost Train

Zaphod wrote:

It showed up as 52% CPU usage running in realtime on AltDVB on an Intel T2130 1.86GHz Duo thingy and crappy onboard Intel gfx chipset.

was that with power dvd codec? strange if theres that differance (it a t2300 btw so roughly the same architecture), did try an up to date version of coreAVC and it seems to work perfectly, cpu usage about 60-80% depending on deinterlacing settings

bit disappointing that there's not more content on the channel seems to be six or several hd programs on a loop:
hurling highlights, wimbledon highlights, episode of monster garage, highlights of a lost episode, planet earth cave episode, HD promos from sony(& i think panasonic), scenery of dublin. I guess it very early days and its great it not encrypted, hopefully it won't take too long before they start showing some scheduled stuff. I really hope they can keep it free and develope it into a proper channel

Decided I'd give it a lash.

Tried CoreAVC and AltDVB first, it didn't show the full frame. So I tried PowerDVD 7.3 and the software supplied with my card (TerraTec Home Cinema) and all works perfectly. ~65% CPU usage though, it's a Core 2 Duo E6420.

Rick_

One thing that's weird is why on HD the DOG still is in the 16:9 position, when anyone watching is going to have a widescreen TV by default because of the HD capability, so why don't they just put it in the bottom left corner rather than stupidly in a bit where it's just instrusive if anything.

The information screen though shoing the RTÉ, TV 3 and TG 4 logos was very nice. The colourful backgrounds could be used perfectly for idents and holding captions.

remlap

Paddy I have SKY HD, and I personally prefer DOG's to be in 16:9 safe area if in HD or not, it just looks better.

Zaphod

Has anyone looked at the SD channel they are supposed to be transmitting in MPEG4? AltDVB has a 'Bitrate Viewer' in the 'Tools' menu - interesting to see how it would compare to the HD channel above.

watty

remlap wrote: »

Paddy I have SKY HD, and I personally prefer DOG's to be in 16:9 safe area if in HD or not, it just looks better.

I prefer many other animals above Dogs and wish they would Scrap Dogs.

If you have HD, then you have digital tuner and loads of station ID info at press of button.

DOGs are for multichannel Analogue Cable or Satellite. An insult on Digital platforms.

Zaphod

Remuxing the .ts files with 'remuxts' allows them to be downconverted to MPEG2 SD with 'ConvertXtoDVD'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_nNloiyFM

I haven't come across a program that will easily convert to HD .avi yet.