Ban on cheap beer?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Off licences want below-cost selling ban
watch listen Monday, 30 July 2007 14:36

The National Off-Licence Association has said if the Government wants to reduce alcohol abuse, it should bring back the ban on below cost selling.

It says below cost selling allows larger stores to sell alcohol at greatly reduced prices.

NOffLA was reacting to reports that the Minister for Justice is considering restricting the opening hours of off-licences in an effort to curb violence, suicide and drink driving.
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It said it would support any initiative aimed at curbing alcohol abuse in Ireland if the minister could prove it would have an effect.

A spokesman said that if the Government wanted to take action straight away, it should introduce mandatory ID cards.

The association has also suggested that it was changes in licensing laws, brought in by the previous Fianna Fáil-led Government that have led to the current situation.

Since 2001 there has been free movement in licences, which has meant non-specialist shops like petrol stations and convenience stores are now allowed sell alcohol.

The association has said if there are to be changes to the licensing system, they have to be applied to all retailers, in order that there be a level playing pitch.

What do you think of this lads?

I know some of ye work in off licences but I hope the NOffLA don't get their way, I like my Tesco, Dunnes and Supervalu offers!

dudara

Well, they did ban "Happy Hours" and "Beat the Clocks" and the like from pubs. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, once again, the vintners win out over the punters

FlutterinBantam

Seems the Min for Justice is keen to restrict Offies opening hours.

So just because the skangers abuse the system the whole industry suffers...Thats the way it seem to me.

Enforce the frikken law on alc. sale and bang up these whankers who abuse.


Why have a law if its not enforced???

um7y1h83ge06nx

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Enforce the frikken law on alc. sale and bang up these whankers who abuse.

Yeah you see this so often in this country, introduce more laws instead of strictly enforcing the existing ones.

I really hate the crap the vitners and off licence associations spout, disguising their contempt and fear of the large supermarket chains and cheap beer with a fake concern for our health.

I would have more respect for them if they admitted they mainly want to protect their profits and not Joe Soap's health.

darkskol

:mad:

FlutterinBantam

yeah ..like charging 4.30 for a bottle of beer you could buy in an offie for under a Euro.
Can never figure that one out.

happy_acid_face

Working in the industry I’d have to say I don't think it’s all that bad. NOffla doesn't want people to stop drinking; being the National Off Licence Association it would be total stupid to restrict drinking.

The reason they want this imposed is because since the law was changed a couple of years ago to ALLOW drink to be sold below cost it has seriously damaged smaller Off Licences. Basically large companies like Tesco's sell their beer below cost and make a loss on it. They make up this loss on their better margined groceries. The small off licence can't compete with these prices.

Secondly, Off Licenses run business under the laws of the RTC, Responsible Trading in the Community. This is quite self explanatory. Unfortunately, Supermarket Chains etc, don't adhere to this... I have seen kids no older than 14 getting served alcohol

JIZZLORD

*the jizzlord better stock up*

Frankiestylee

I work in an Off-License that is about 3 minutes away from a tesco.

I've had many arguements about tesco charging rediculous prices for their beer and why we can't compete. As Acid Happy says, what you don't pay for your beer you pay for with your bread, milk etc.

We've started doing rotating offers on stuff like cases of stella etc, but really we can't compete when Tesco go and charge stupid amounts for cans of Budweiser. Personally, if you want to drink Bud then you're welcome to your tesco beer, but well, screw tesco, when they're not doing these special offers all their beers are more expensive.

noby

I think having a go at off-licences for pushing a 'Ban on cheap beer' is a bit misleading. From what I gathered the govt. proposed restricting opening hours, to try and solve our country's drinking problem.
The NOffLA just responded by suggesting it might have more to do with the fact that you can buy booze fo rless than cost price than the fact that the offys are open late at night.

guildofevil

Sounds like predatory pricing to me.

Give the stuff away at below cost, then when the smaller businesses, have gone bust, you can charge what you like. I mean, where else are you going to go?

Cheap beer in the supermarket today; expensive beer in the supermarket tomorrow and no local offie to compete with them.

Civilian_Target

Yeah, to be fair, I was served at Tesco when I was 15... and I certainly didn't look a day older than it!

That said, I don't think its going to help reduce the amount of drinking. In Sweeden, offlicenses are all owned by the government and are only open Monday-Friday, 10-5 and they have an even more unhealthy attitude to drinking than we do!

Tazz T

It's the same arguement that exists between Supermarkets and convenience stores. Off licences are convenient stores, most are at the end of the street. If you want a loaf of bread or a beer at 9pm you aren't going to go to Tescos, you pay more to go to the end of the street.

Off licences and convenience stores are a completely different marketing animal.

The only reason anyone wants to change the law is because they'll make more money out of it. They don't give a hoot about social betterment.

Leave the law the way it is. Convenience stores and off licences should concentrate on offering better custome service rather than moaning about the supermarkets all the time.

guildofevil

To be fair, this did start when someone suggested making offies close earlier, which would remove their convenience store angle, effectively making them unable to compete with the supermarket. The suggestion that below cost selling be banned was their return fire.

The real problem is that it is more important to the government that they be seen to be doing something to address the problem of binge drinking, than actually achieving the cultural change necessary to actually deal with it. As a matter of fact, the current binge drinking culture gains the government a lot of revenue and there are quite a few publicans in the Dáil. The last thing they want to do is something that is actually effective in curbing alcohol consumption.

There is an unhealthy attitude to alcohol in this country and it has been caused by generations of us growing up with it being treated as a semi forbidden substance. The laws which restrict the numbers of pubs and pub opening times are the main cause of this attitude. In this way, the current repressive alcohol laws only benefit the government and the publican, at the expense of the public.

The government gets a lot of revenue from the excessive taxation of alcohol products and then they tell us that it's for our own good, because if it costs more, we have to drink less, right? The fact that that is complete rubbish and we drink more than most of the rest of Europe, despite having to pay through the nose for it, doesn't seem to matter.

Pubs\offies having to close at a certain time restricts drinking, right? I mean, of you have less time to drink, you have to drink less right? Wrong again. Restrictive times means people tend to panic buy and end up buying more than they actually want, “just in case”.

In the case of an offie it means that people buy more drink than they need, because they know they can't go back later and buy more if they decided they want it. Once they have the booze they can drink as late as they like, so how this supposed to curb binge drinking, I do not know.

Ever been in pub at last orders and seen people add a double vodka, or something to their order? “Actually, make that two pints and a double vodka and the same for my friend here”. That's panic buying and that is the publican's golden time. Everyone rushes to the bar, buys more drink than they actually want and then proceeds to drink it faster than they want, because the law says they have to get out. Imagine how sweet a deal this is for the publican. He gets to sell all of his customers a bunch of booze and then kick them out into the street before it hits them. Then all he has to do is sweep up and count the cash, while outside the Gardaí have to deal with the mess.

The restricted number of pubs means less competition, so they don't have to sell food or do anything else to attract custom. Supply and demand ensures that they will have custom.

When the prices of alcoholic drinks are artificially inflated, people do not drink significantly less. What happens is that they become more focused on the alcohol, rather than the quality of the beverage, or indeed any other element of a night out. The important thing becomes maximum effect for minimum outlay. This actually encourages binge drinking as people see drinking two drinks as a waste. They would rather not drink at all tonight, then go out on Saturday night and get pissed. It also means that the “value” end of the alcohol market thrives at the expense of quality products. People are more likely to get a load of cheap cans of beer, than a couple of expensive bottles, of quality beer, for instance.

When people start looking for value, in this way, it changes the whole dynamic of a night out. Alcohol is no longer just an element of a night out, it is the entire purpose of going out and the results of this attitude are on display for inspection, any weekend night, outside the chipper, twnty minutes after the pubs kick out.

That is our binge drinking culture and hand wringing and restrictive laws will not change it.

Frankiestylee

Tazz T wrote:

It's the same arguement that exists between Supermarkets and convenience stores. Off licences are convenient stores, most are at the end of the street. If you want a loaf of bread or a beer at 9pm you aren't going to go to Tescos, you pay more to go to the end of the street.

Off licences and convenience stores are a completely different marketing animal.

The only reason anyone wants to change the law is because they'll make more money out of it. They don't give a hoot about social betterment.

Leave the law the way it is. Convenience stores and off licences should concentrate on offering better custome service rather than moaning about the supermarkets all the time.

It's not at all though... Off-licenses normally have a better selection then supermarkets and, well with us anyway, we're priced lower on most things, it's just the "special offer" below cost product that the supermarkets make a killing on.

As guildofevil pointed out, restricted hours make people buy like crazy... prime example being Good Friday, the Thursday before is one of the busiest days of the year and people buy way too much drink compared to usual.

In the offie I work in we open til 12.30 Friday&Saturday and that last hour is pretty much dead, but at least people have the option so there's no mad rush.

happy_acid_face

guildofevil wrote:

To be fair, this did start when someone suggested making offies close earlier, which would remove their convenience store angle, effectively making them unable to compete with the supermarket. The suggestion that below cost selling be banned was their return fire......................................That is our binge drinking culture and hand wringing and restrictive laws will not change it.

Bravo Sir! Well said!

happy_acid_face

Frankiestylee wrote:

prime example being Good Friday, the Thursday before is one of the busiest days of the year and people buy way too much drink compared to usual

Perfect Example!

Also Christmas Eve, most offies busiest day of the year, is followed by a very very slow January. The least busiest time of the year...

um7y1h83ge06nx

Class post guildofevil.

Can't find anything to disagree with.

Greater availability of alcohol could mean people will just get sick of it. The Holy Thursday/Good Friday thing is a great example. Restricting alcohol sales Friday pushes up sales just before that.

I'm guilty of the whole get loads of alcohol "just in case", particularly when I was in college. We would have nights out that would start with getting stuff in the offie, maybe head to a house party, then out in town, and maybe back to the house party again. We would nearly always buy too much.

Things would be worse if we were heading to town from a party and knew we wouldn't be coming back. Then we would try and drink our remaining alcohol as fast as possible, maybe sneaking some on the bus and drinking on the bus, just so we didn't leave it behind.

There was also the whole "drink a heap" before we headed out so we wouldn't drink as much expensive alcohol in the pubs. Dunno if that worked at all as we still drank steadily in the pubs and club, just making us drink even more.

Thankfully I'm getting more sensible!

rubadub

Easton Eager Sandblaster wrote:

The National Off-Licence Association has said if the Government wants to reduce alcohol abuse, it should bring back the ban on below cost selling.

That is a pathetic attempt of blackmail, as though that is the reason they really want it. If cheap booze is the real reason for excess drinking they should be asking for vastly increased tax on drink, if they truely do have the nations health foremost on their minds, and think expensive alcohol will result in less abuse.

No drug dealer wants another guy moving in on his turf offering cheaper drugs to his usual clients. It makes perfect sense that a shop only offering a specific drug would prefer it that drug could only be sold for say 2 hours a week, say on a saturday. People would come in and stockpile, like holy thursday, the offie has far lower overheads & wages if only open that time, they have all their weeks turnover in 2 hours flat. While a supermarket is going to be open all day for public convenience.

"Drinking hours" were introduced for the war effort, to stop people involved in military industries from slacking off, arriving to work hungover. Well the war is over!, if anything there should be a ban on any closing time. 15 years ago drink in a pub was twice the price of that in an offie, now it can be 6 times the price. Offies are probably selling more than any other time in history, yet are still moaning.

Supermarkets are not going to wipe them out and then charge stupid amounts, many shops like centra or spar are selling booze and have it at low cost. If the supermarkets did start charging more then other shops would get a licence and sell it too.

You can get bread in supermarkets for 35 cent, yet I see queues outside little bakeries charging 10 times that.

JPA

Well said guildofevil. It's the attitudes of the entire nation that need to need change not something petty like opening times.
Look at the rest of europe where pubs and clubs can stay open for the night and small cafes, restaurants, fast food places, cinemas etc are allowed to serve alcohol.
And I'm not saying there's no problems associated with alcohol in these countries but alcohol is never the focus of a night out, merely a part of it. In this country for example, people will go out with the sole intention of getting drunk and probably ending up forgetting the rest of the night.

I was drinking with some friends recently in Europe and when I finished my beer I was instinctively thinking of going for the next one. But they never moved and were fine just sitting there relaxing letting their first beer settle. It just shows how our attitude is a strange one with getting as much alcohol into us as possible.

So will the further restrictions of a sales of alcohol help or hinder the current problems in this country? It's almost impossible to tell but a look at Europe says more availability causes less problems.