Planning permission not required?

unkel

Sorry if it has been covered before!

Is there no planning permission required for social housing? I was browsing the nice sdcc site where one can see all applications for permission based on a google style map. I could see all applications, from individuals building extensions to their house to developers building whole new estates and industrial premises, etc.

But I saw no applications for any of the social housing developments or developments on traveller sites, etc.

I live in Lucan BTW

The_Conductor

unkel wrote:

Sorry if it has been covered before!

Is there no planning permission required for social housing? I was browsing the nice sdcc site where one can see all applications for permission based on a google style map. I could see all applications, from individuals building extensions to their house to developers building whole new estates and industrial premises, etc.

But I saw no applications for any of the social housing developments or developments on traveller sites, etc.

I live in Lucan BTW

Social housing etc. is subject to the exact same planning regulations as any other developments. Not all developers/builders/people building extensions adhere to the planning regulations- in a lot of cases thinking they can lob in a retention order after the fact, but their developments could well end up being condemned. It has been argued in this forum previously that the majority of social housing etc is actually of a far higher standard than the average developments going up- not that this excuses any planning or building requirements......

unkel

smccarrick wrote:

Social housing etc. is subject to the exact same planning regulations as any other developments

That's good to know, thanks. Now my question was because of the large social housing developments in Balgaddy (South-east Lucan). See attachment and please don't ridicule me for my atrocious drawing skills

I've drawn a purple border around the area involved. There must be many hundreds, if not a thousand apartments in that area all built in the last 5 or so years. There is not a planning permission anywhere to be found. The sites with a red border around them are marked by SDCC as having a planning permission (request)

Anybody know what the story is?

The_Conductor

I'll check- but I don't think that the shaded area is actually classified as Balgaddy (notwithstanding Balgaddy Church being very nearby). If I was terribly cynical I'd point out that your question regards developments smack in the middle of the constituency of the late Liam Lawlor......
I'll see if I can find out any info- I'm curious......

Ps- since when was Balgaddy known as "South-East Lucan"? I grew up in the area- its a seperate parish in its own right, and would always have been associated with Ronanstown, rather than Lucan (south-east or otherwise). They used share clerics etc. I know there was war when it was proposed to use the D24 postal code for the area.

unkel

smccarrick wrote:

I'll see if I can find out any info- I'm curious......

Cheers

smccarrick wrote:

Ps- since when was Balgaddy known as "South-East Lucan"?

I just made that up to indicate the geographical location compared to the rest of the build up area of Lucan

smccarrick wrote:

its a seperate parish in its own right, and would always have been associated with Ronanstown, rather than Lucan (south-east or otherwise). They used share clerics etc. I know there was war when it was proposed to use the D24 postal code for the area.

D22, wasn't it? Until Liam Lawlor offered to change that to Co. Dublin in return for a bribe from a developer iirc?

godtabh

smccarrick wrote:

I'll check- but I don't think that the shaded area is actually classified as Balgaddy (notwithstanding Balgaddy Church being very nearby). If I was terribly cynical I'd point out that your question regards developments smack in the middle of the constituency of the late Liam Lawlor......
I'll see if I can find out any info- I'm curious......

Ps- since when was Balgaddy known as "South-East Lucan"? I grew up in the area- its a seperate parish in its own right, and would always have been associated with Ronanstown, rather than Lucan (south-east or otherwise). They used share clerics etc. I know there was war when it was proposed to use the D24 postal code for the area.

Balgaddy is part of Lucan South parish isnt it?

I've never known Balgaddy as part of Lucan and I've been living there for 25 years

The_Conductor

kearnsr wrote:

Balgaddy is part of Lucan South parish isnt it?

I've never known Balgaddy as part of Lucan and I've been living there for 25 years

Balgaddy- traditionally was actually part of Clondalkin Parish, along with St. Mary's in Lucan- but they were seperated out in the early 1950s. From the seperation with Clondalkin- Balgaddy shared resources with Ronanstown and Lucan (St. Mary's). Balgaddy became independent when Esker was built around 1977/1978- and shared resources with Ronanstown/Esker thereafter.

Very curiously if you hop onto DAFT- you will find several examples of houses for sale in Balgaddy inferring that they are "part of St. Mary's Parish" (as one particular estate agent succintly puts it). Obviously this is quite incorrect- but undoubtedly helps with house sales

Addendum: It was only in 1995 that Balgaddy was made a Parish in its own right. The parish of "Divine Mercy- Lucan South" comprises Balgaddy and much of Ballyowen- and is the area to the far side of the dual carriageway between Lucan and Clondalkin. Esker, an entirely seperate parish, is known as "St. Patricks Parish of Esker, Dobsboro and Adamstown".

unkel

So does anybody know why there are no planning permission applications on the sdcc website for all those apartments?

jdivision

When did they last build social housing themselves? A lot of social housing is now being provided in private developments under Part V of the Planning & Development Act 2000 which also introduced affordable housing.

godtabh

smccarrick wrote:

Balgaddy- traditionally was actually part of Clondalkin Parish, along with St. Mary's in Lucan- but they were seperated out in the early 1950s. From the seperation with Clondalkin- Balgaddy shared resources with Ronanstown and Lucan (St. Mary's). Balgaddy became independent when Esker was built around 1977/1978- and shared resources with Ronanstown/Esker thereafter.

Very curiously if you hop onto DAFT- you will find several examples of houses for sale in Balgaddy inferring that they are "part of St. Mary's Parish" (as one particular estate agent succintly puts it). Obviously this is quite incorrect- but undoubtedly helps with house sales

Addendum: It was only in 1995 that Balgaddy was made a Parish in its own right. The parish of "Divine Mercy- Lucan South" comprises Balgaddy and much of Ballyowen- and is the area to the far side of the dual carriageway between Lucan and Clondalkin. Esker, an entirely seperate parish, is known as "St. Patricks Parish of Esker, Dobsboro and Adamstown".

Didnt know all of that.

Could never figure out where the St Mary's finished and Esker started. I used to live in Esker Park which was part of St Mary's parish while Esker Gleb was part of Esker Parish. (Suppose thats where the boundary is!)

unkel wrote:

So does anybody know why there are no planning permission applications on the sdcc website for all those apartments?

Have you tried the planning counter?

If the aparments had have been built with no planning application they would have been well found out at this stage.

Victor

unkel wrote:

So does anybody know why there are no planning permission applications on the sdcc website for all those apartments?

Its quite possible it is withing the Adamstown SDZ - once they comply with requirements, PP isn't needed. Alternatively, it is the council doing them under different legislation.

unkel

Victor wrote:

Its quite possible it is withing the Adamstown SDZ - once they comply with requirements, PP isn't needed

But this is about 3 miles from Adamstown (utter south west of the Lucan built up area). Surely that can't be the same SDZ (and all developments around the apartments, older and newer, have planning appliciations)

Victor wrote:

Alternatively, it is the council doing them under different legislation.

Now that's interesting. One rule for us all and then another wee rule for the council? Would you care explaining how that works? Sorry for n00b questions

Victor

unkel wrote:

But this is about 3 miles from Adamstown (utter south west of the Lucan built up area). Surely that can't be the same SDZ (and all developments around the apartments, older and newer, have planning appliciations)

Is there a second SDZ?

Now that's interesting. One rule for us all and then another wee rule for the council? Would you care explaining how that works?

I'm not sure how it works, but it goes through a slightly streamlined process similar to PP. I'm not sure what act though, whether its Planning Act, Housing Act or Local Government Act. A similar procedure is used for local roads.

sharpsuit

I am no expert in planning but I think that there is a separate procedure where the local authority is the developer. There would certainly be a conflict if the officials of the Council's planning department decided the housing/planning proposal of their colleagues in the Housing Department.

The separate procedure is called Part 8 (or maybe Part 10) where the application is decided by the Councillors, as opposed to the planning officials. There should be details of the application on the council's website, but probably separate to the run-of-the-mill planning applications.

godtabh

sharpsuit wrote:

I am no expert in planning but I think that there is a separate procedure where the local authority is the developer. There would certainly be a conflict if the officials of the Council's planning department decided the housing/planning proposal of their colleagues in the Housing Department.

The separate procedure is called Part 8 (or maybe Part 10) where the application is decided by the Councillors, as opposed to the planning officials. There should be details of the application on the council's website, but probably separate to the run-of-the-mill planning applications.

I've done works for county councils. One big one was a developer who as part of a deal with the county council would build the new HQ for the county council. The planning application went in with the county council.

I could poke holes in it left right and centre but it got full permission