Poker tracker stats onto boards....

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 1:11pm #1

Hi, just wondering what is the best way to get stats from my poker tracker onto this forum - want to get some views, not sure what to make of my stats......

mewso · 26-07-2007 2:03pm

Press the print screen button when you have the stats open. Then paste into a graphics application like Paint.Net, save as a .jpg and include in your post.

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 2:43pm

ok here goes, have been playing poker on and off for about 2 years. Play a good bit live 1/2 in my local casino and more often that not i walk away with a healthy profit. Ive never really given online poker a real go. I have played 1/2 before online but i went bust due to lack of bankroll management etc. Anyway i got an e-mail 2 weeks ago from paddy power offering my a free 5 dollar sng token - i finished second in that and have since played cash and have got up to 2500 dollars. I didnt really follow the bankroll managment theory on my way to 1/2 - i just dont have the patience to grind my way up.... Im not sure what to make of my poker tracker stats. I suppose there is every chance i am just on a hot streak. But i dont really think that is the case. I feel very confortable at 1/2 and i dont think ive been running that good - lost a few big pots to bad beats etc etc. Anyway im hoping someone with more online experience that me can make something of my stats:

5starpool · 26-07-2007 2:48pm

Seems like you are fairly loose, and like to limp a good bit preflop. If you post your positional stats as well it might help. It is still really not enough hands to jodge properly, although you do seem to be running hot.

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 2:51pm

thanks, more stats added......

Mr.Plough · 26-07-2007 2:53pm

your too loose passive pf.

looks like you complete with junk alot from the sb.

your not blind stealing enough

your not aggressive enough postflop. Your total AF should be at least 2

at a glance i think you were just running hot. you need to tighten up your game alot.

nice spin from 5 to 2500 btw

Macspower · 26-07-2007 2:55pm

Is your name also meathman on i-poker?? If so I've played a lot with you.... If you like I can let you know what I think of your play..... but only if you want it straight....

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 3:06pm

yea hit me with it:

From my point of view, the following are my big weaknesses:

1. i tend to limp in early position with suited connecters and small pairs - but when it is raised i generally call that raise to often - probobly a loosing play?

2. i am probobly not aggresive enough post flop when an overcard comes to my pair - i tend to shut down and always believe they have hit the over card

3. when i have a hand like a/10 or a/j, i can tend to go into a check calling mode when an ace high flop comes - worred about a/k or a/q - maybe i should be more aggresive...

4. yes, i do limp to often on the small blind - probobly a loosing play in the long run

5. i call to often in the big blind with fairly weak hands, if there was a small raise into me

any more advice......

Mr.Plough · 26-07-2007 3:15pm

remove open limping from your game. raise that sh1t.

cbet more.

checking the flop is fine when theres an overcard to your pair in most cases when your pair is jj qq kk to induce bluffs.

you need to determine pf with hands like AJ whether your ace will be good if it hits. i tend to 3bet these hands alot

play tighter then a nuns knickers from the small blind unless your stealing, ie folded around to you or maybe one limper.

what hands do you mean by fairly weak? pocket pairs are fine for set mining, as are scs and suited aces(small raises)

for me anyway

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 3:24pm

Mr.Plough wrote:

remove open limping from your game. raise that sh1t.

Yea thats something i am trying to introduce - however a lot of times i tend to find that limping encourages limping and i do think hands like small pocket pairs and suited connecters have a much higher chance of getting paid (if i hit) in multi-way pots....

Mr.Plough wrote:

cbet more.

Hmm, dont think im that bad at continuation betting, maybe my stats tell differently though....

Mr.Plough wrote:

checking the flop is fine when theres an overcard to your pair in most cases when your pair is jj qq kk to induce bluffs.

What is the best play here, if you have say kings and an ace drops, if the best move to check raise, or check call and lead out on the turn?

you need to determine pf with hands like AJ whether your ace will be good if it hits. i tend to 3bet these hands alot

play tighter then a nuns knickers from the small blind unless your stealing, ie folded around to you or maybe one limper.

Mr.Plough wrote:

what hands do you mean by fairly weak? pocket pairs are fine for set mining, as are scs and suited aces(small raises)
for me anyway

i would say hands like q/10 and connecting cards........ its hard to know how to play against the raiser - i would say hit a 10 high flop with q/10 and the original raiser would continuation bet - is it best to lead out, check raise , or just call and lead out on the turn.....

Macspower · 26-07-2007 3:26pm

ok l'll go look at some of your hands and make comments if you like....

this is really -EV for me as your on my buddy list

It may not be pretty.... be warned..... but it will be constructive criticism if you can handle it...

stop me before I post if you want .... I'll post it in about 45 mins or so.....

here I go hammering on the glass again :rolleyes:

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 3:34pm

fire ahead macspower - not going to take it personally! - i only play about 3 hours a day and have a job - so im only really looking at it as a way to make a bit of extra money every week...... any advice to improve my game will be appreciated......

1 thing though - dont put down my online alias in the hands you post - dont want all the pros on here coming looking for me! - cant be good for my profitability!...

valor · 26-07-2007 4:44pm

wow 31/9 are horrible stats

stop limping

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 5:09pm

valor wrote:

wow 31/9 are horrible stats

stop limping

yea something im going to work on in the next few sessions...... is there any hands, situations etc that i should try to limp in with - most of the pros on tv and articles say you should try and get in cheap with small pocket pairs for example......?

Macspower · 26-07-2007 5:12pm

ok here goes!!! My comments are based a relatively small sample.. about 200 hands or so and my memory of this mornings game... if you take the following on board it will definately help your game and you can increase your profit.... I really shouldn't be doing this but anything to help a fellow boardsie

I will say that you were running very well and there was a few times when you really shouldn't have had a stack left but did get incredibly lucky and double through a few times.... don't be fooled by positive variance..

First of all I had you buddied in about 20 mins and the following notes are attached to you....
"limp caller" " has folded to 3rd bullet a few times" "limps pocket pairs" "bad calling station dont bluff him"

One of the hands that you did well with was when you flopped set over set against a player and you ended up getting the lot.... you limped in midposition with 10 10 and ended up getting it all in across the line when you had middle set against bottom set. you should be raising here about 100% of the time and when you hit your set you'll hopefully win a big pot against a guy with TPTK

your VPIP is way too high.. you play too many hands oop and you call raises way too much... you should not be calling raises with trash unless you have a particular plan in mind... calling to hit is a loosing play...

example:

Button is in seat 8
Total number of players: 6

Seat 1: BB ($352,45)
Seat 3: UTG ($190,00)
Seat 5: UTG+1 ($156,45)
Seat 6: CO ($226,05)
Seat 8: BTN ($259,67)
Seat 10: SB ($435,18)

SB posts small blind of $1,00
BB posts big blind of $2,00

UTG folds
UTG+1 calls $2,00
CO folds
BTN raises to $9,00
SB calls $8,00
BB folds
UTG+1 folds

Dealing flop 7h,4s,Kc
Pot is: $22,00

SB bets $8,00
BTN calls $8,00

Dealing turn 4c
Pot is: $38,00

SB bets $9,00
BTN calls $9,00

Dealing river 8h
Pot is: $56,00

SB checks
BTN checks

BTN wins $53,20

Rake and uncalled bets: $2,80

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $2,00
Seat 3: UTG stays even
Seat 5: UTG+1 loses $2,00
Seat 6: CO stays even
Seat 8: BTN wins $27,20 with Js,Jc
Seat 10: SB loses $26,00 with 6c,8c

In this hand I was happy to call your flop bet knowing that you would put more money in on the turn with any pair... but when the board paired it scred me and hence the small pot.... but this is an example of spewing away chips..

another thing I noticed was that a few times you committed over half your stack between calling the flop and turn only to fold the river....... this is poor

example.... you couldn't have played this one worse if you tried... I have no idea what you have here... but lets take a look at it..

Button is in seat 8
Total number of players: 4

Seat 1: BB ($289,05)
Seat 6: CO ($129,37)
Seat 8: BTN ($219,25)
Seat 10: SB ($254,18)

SB posts small blind of $1,00
BB posts big blind of $2,00

CO folds
BTN raises to $7,00
SB raises to $16,00
BB folds
BTN calls $9,00

Dealing flop 9h,Td,Kc
Pot is: $35,00

SB checks
BTN bets $20,00
SB calls $20,00

Dealing turn Ac
Pot is: $75,00

SB checks
BTN bets $70,00
SB calls $70,00

Dealing river Ts
Pot is: $215,00

SB bets $35,00
BTN raises to $113,25
SB folds

BTN wins $360,25

Rake and uncalled bets: $3,00

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $2,00
Seat 6: CO stays even
Seat 8: BTN wins $141,00 with 9c,9s
Seat 10: SB loses $142,00

you min raise me preflop and then check/call the flop and call a pot sized bet on the turn....... and lead/fold the river asking me if i had a straight??

and then next hand you double up your few remaining chips with your AJ against my AK......

you really really should not have had any chips left at all....

to summarise....

stop limping... raise or fold preflop
stop calling ... raise or fold again
don't commit 2/3 of your stack to fold the river
play less hands
play them in position

you have a chance now with a free bankroll that you are guaranteed to leave at the tables unless you change immediately....

Move down to 50/1 immediately and impliment the above for starters..... if you can't do this then withdraw the moey and take a holiday with it.... and enjoy...

you have the potential and a free bankroll to play with if you decide to do so....

and best of luck....

Mac

cardshark202 · 26-07-2007 5:20pm

valor wrote:

wow 31/9 are horrible stats

stop limping

balls m8

Macspower · 26-07-2007 5:43pm

meathman 007 wrote:

yea something im going to work on in the next few sessions...... is there any hands, situations etc that i should try to limp in with - most of the pros on tv and articles say you should try and get in cheap with small pocket pairs for example......?

small pocket pairs in paricular in 6 max are for raising with. think about it this way... you have 3 chances to win the pot with a small pair..

1) you rais with them and win the pot preflop
2) you raise and get called... you C-bet and take down the pot
3) you raise and hit the flop for a set and win a big pot....

If you limp call you only have one chance to win the pot and that is if you hit it really...... if not your folding....

IMAO

Mac

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 6:10pm

Macspower wrote:

ok here goes!!! My comments are based a relatively small sample.. about 200 hands or so and my memory of this mornings game... if you take the following on board it will definately help your game and you can increase your profit.... I really shouldn't be doing this but anything to help a fellow boardsie

I appreciate the feedback and will try to implement some if your advice.....

Macspower wrote:

I will say that you were running very well and there was a few times when you really shouldn't have had a stack left but did get incredibly lucky and double through a few times.... don't be fooled by positive variance..

I agree with you here, i played very badly in my session today and got lucky in 1 or 2 important hands. That is the worst ive played in the last few weeks by a long shot, so im not going to let todays performance alone summarize my last 2 weeks play.....

Macspower wrote:

First of all I had you buddied in about 20 mins and the following notes are attached to you....
"limp caller" " has folded to 3rd bullet a few times" "limps pocket pairs" "bad calling station dont bluff him"

Yep, i pointed this out earlier as one of my leaks - i tend to limp with certain hands and nearly always call the raise if there is one.... can you elaborate on the '3rd bullet a few times'.....? - secondly, i agree i probobly call a bit to much and should reraise on the flop a lot more......

Macspower wrote:

One of the hands that you did well with was when you flopped set over set against a player and you ended up getting the lot.... you limped in midposition with 10 10 and ended up getting it all in across the line when you had middle set against bottom set. you should be raising here about 100% of the time and when you hit your set you'll hopefully win a big pot against a guy with TPTK

Id normally raise with 10's. But i just felt like playing this one differently and hopefully win a big pot. As it worked out i hit set over set and doubled through him........ i dont mind limping with big pairs from time to time......

Macspower wrote:

your VPIP is way too high.. you play too many hands oop and you call raises way too much... you should not be calling raises with trash unless you have a particular plan in mind... calling to hit is a loosing play...

Agreed, im gonna stop calling so many raises, definite leak in my game.....
example:

Macspower wrote:

Button is in seat 8
Total number of players: 6

Seat 1: BB ($352,45)
Seat 3: UTG ($190,00)
Seat 5: UTG+1 ($156,45)
Seat 6: CO ($226,05)
Seat 8: BTN ($259,67)
Seat 10: SB ($435,18)

SB posts small blind of $1,00
BB posts big blind of $2,00

UTG folds
UTG+1 calls $2,00
CO folds
BTN raises to $9,00
SB calls $8,00
BB folds
UTG+1 folds

Dealing flop 7h,4s,Kc
Pot is: $22,00

SB bets $8,00
BTN calls $8,00

Dealing turn 4c
Pot is: $38,00

SB bets $9,00
BTN calls $9,00

Dealing river 8h
Pot is: $56,00

SB checks
BTN checks

BTN wins $53,20

Rake and uncalled bets: $2,80

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $2,00
Seat 3: UTG stays even
Seat 5: UTG+1 loses $2,00
Seat 6: CO stays even
Seat 8: BTN wins $27,20 with Js,Jc
Seat 10: SB loses $26,00 with 6c,8c

In this hand I was happy to call your flop bet knowing that you would put more money in on the turn with any pair... but when the board paired it scred me and hence the small pot.... but this is an example of spewing away chips.

Ok, this hand just went through that hand on poker tracker. First off, my call with the 8/6 of clubs to a 9 dollar raise before the flop is questionable to say the least - out of position etc etc..... after that im ok with my play. I miss the flop, so i lead out with 8 (probly shoud have bet about 14/15) because the king could scare you off with a lot of hands - underpair to the king, a/q, a/j etc etc.... the turn then gives me a flush draw, so i continue betting (again i probly should have bet more - the river then comes a 8 - so i miss the flush, but i have made middle pair on the board, so i check it down........ my mistake was calling preflop, i dont hate my post flop play, apart from the bet size.......

Macspower wrote:

another thing I noticed was that a few times you committed over half your stack between calling the flop and turn only to fold the river....... this is poor

Once again, this is not something i normally do. I remember the 2 hands you are talking about. From what i remember, the preflop raiser put in a continuation bet on the flop - i half hit the flop with either bottom or middle pair - sometimes in these situations i like to flat call on the flop and if they slow down on the turn i bet - i think you get more info on opponents strength playing it this way...... on the 2 hands, i remember improving my hand on the turn, to either bottom 2 pair or pair and open ended str draw - so thats why i called on the turn - when they put in another big bet on the river, i couldnt call......

Macspower wrote:

example.... you couldn't have played this one worse if you tried... I have no idea what you have here... but lets take a look at it..

Button is in seat 8
Total number of players: 4

Seat 1: BB ($289,05)
Seat 6: CO ($129,37)
Seat 8: BTN ($219,25)
Seat 10: SB ($254,18)

SB posts small blind of $1,00
BB posts big blind of $2,00

CO folds
BTN raises to $7,00
SB raises to $16,00
BB folds
BTN calls $9,00

Dealing flop 9h,Td,Kc
Pot is: $35,00

SB checks
BTN bets $20,00
SB calls $20,00

Dealing turn Ac
Pot is: $75,00

SB checks
BTN bets $70,00
SB calls $70,00

Dealing river Ts
Pot is: $215,00

SB bets $35,00
BTN raises to $113,25
SB folds

BTN wins $360,25

Rake and uncalled bets: $3,00

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $2,00
Seat 6: CO stays even
Seat 8: BTN wins $141,00 with 9c,9s
Seat 10: SB loses $142,00

you min raise me preflop and then check/call the flop and call a pot sized bet on the turn....... and lead/fold the river asking me if i had a straight??

yea this is one of the hands i probly didnt play well - i had aj suited - made a lose call on the flop, hoping to take it away from you on the turn - i then hit the ace on the turn - giving me top pair and i also had broadway draw - so i call the pot sized bet - river then comes a 10, so i put a relatively small stopper bet out, thinking it would be cheaper to do this then say call a bet of 50 on the river - you then go all in and there is not much chance of me having the best hand so i fold......

Macspower wrote:

and then next hand you double up your few remaining chips with your AJ against my AK......

you really really should not have had any chips left at all....

Yea got lucky in that hand no doubt - but ive run pretty bad in that situation over the past few weeks - so them kind of outdraws have not made a postive difference to my bankroll....

Macspower wrote:

to summarise....

stop limping... raise or fold preflop

Yea thats something im going to work on, but i would also disagree to a certain extent - i dont think limping in with a small pocket pair is a bad play.....

Macspower wrote:

stop calling ... raise or fold again

Agreed, i call to many raises preflop....

Macspower wrote:

don't commit 2/3 of your stack to fold the river

I normally never do this, just happened twice is our session today! - ive explained above what happened...

Macspower wrote:

play less hands
play them in position

Agreed....

Thanks for the advice, definately going to make some changes to my game....

RedJoker · 26-07-2007 8:14pm

meathman,

stop disagreeing with people, they're right.

Limping in early position with PP and SC is bad. Your hand is face up on the table when you do this. Your opponent will take the pot away from you almost always and it will be extremely cheap for your opponent to get away from top pair when you do hit hard.

Raising with all hands you are going to play creates deception, they have no idea if you have 22, AA, 76s, etc., etc. By only raising good hands your range is now close to 1010+, AJ+. When you limp your range is 22 - 99, SCs and weak aces.

And all this is before the main reasons why raising is better than limping:

Macspower wrote:

1) you raise with them and win the pot preflop
2) you raise and get called... you C-bet and take down the pot
3) you raise and hit the flop for a set and win a big pot....

If you limp call you only have one chance to win the pot and that is if you hit it really...... if not your folding....

Looking at the stats:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/103049/43172.JPG

You're playing too many hands. You're not raising enough hands. Your VPIP should be lower and your PFR should be higher.

You don't steal enough, if everybody folds to you when you're in the CO or on the BTN, you should be raising all of your opening range. RAISING.

Stop defending your small blind so much, you're OOP and are going to lose money this way.

Your flop AF is way too low, you're calling too many cbets and not cbetting enough yourself.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/103049/43173.JPG

This is crazy, you have absolutely no concept of position. You're playing more hands UTG than you are from the CO. This is absolutely shocking.

Play only PPs, AK, AQ and maybe KQ from UTG and RAISE all of them. Fold everything else.

From MP you can add in AJ, A10 and most blackjack 20 hands. Raise them. Fold otherwise.

Your CO and BTN ranges are ok tbh. SCs, aces and suited kings can be added to the previous ranges. Raise them, even with limpers.

From your stats and your comments in this thread it's highly unlikely you have the ability to beat 50nl. Move down and get better or cash out.

meathman 007 wrote:

i dont hate my post flop play, apart from the bet size.......

Your play in the 86 hand is disgusting. Limping is horrible. Calling the raise OOP is horrible.

Your flop bet SCREAMS weakness. Any hand with showdown value will let you keep bluffing and any missed hand will raise and take the pot.

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 8:53pm

i posted on this thread to get advice and critique of my play.

Red Joker: If you had bothered to read the whole thead , you would notice that i have agreed with virtually all of the comments i have got on my play - so where the hell did this comment come from:

'stop disagreeing with people, they're right.'

Personally i dont hate limping with small pocket pairs, thats the only comment i made

I have basically agreed that i need some serious improvement in my game - no argument there.

But redjoker you have taken more of an abusive tone for some reason - not that i take it personally, just not sure why you decided to post in such a manner

'From your stats and your comments in this thread it's highly unlikely you have the ability to beat 50nl. Move down and get better or cash out'

Right ok, thats your opinion. As i said in my original post, i only play 3 hours a day, and grinding it out at the lower levels dosnt interest me. Getting better and using my accumulated bankroll to continue to make money at 1/2 is all im interested in ...... any other advice appreciated...
As i said, i deposited no money, so getting to 2500 is not bad, sure maybe it is just a hot streak..... but sure i may as well try and make as much as i can out of it!

digiman · 26-07-2007 9:06pm

Macspower wrote:

Button is in seat 8
Total number of players: 6

Seat 1: BB ($352,45)
Seat 3: UTG ($190,00)
Seat 5: UTG+1 ($156,45)
Seat 6: CO ($226,05)
Seat 8: BTN ($259,67)
Seat 10: SB ($435,18)

SB posts small blind of $1,00
BB posts big blind of $2,00

UTG folds
UTG+1 calls $2,00
CO folds
BTN raises to $9,00
SB calls $8,00
BB folds
UTG+1 folds

Dealing flop 7h,4s,Kc
Pot is: $22,00

SB bets $8,00
BTN calls $8,00

Dealing turn 4c
Pot is: $38,00

SB bets $9,00
BTN calls $9,00

Dealing river 8h
Pot is: $56,00

SB checks
BTN checks

BTN wins $53,20

Rake and uncalled bets: $2,80

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $2,00
Seat 3: UTG stays even
Seat 5: UTG+1 loses $2,00
Seat 6: CO stays even
Seat 8: BTN wins $27,20 with Js,Jc
Seat 10: SB loses $26,00 with 6c,8c

This hand is really bad, if you play suited gap connecters like this then you should just fold them preflop. I would play hands like that very aggressive on a board like this.
On the flop your OOP and your bet just cries of weakness, 8 into a 22 pot is just terrible, you should have bet at least 15 here. If I get called I bet 40 on the turn and if he calls then I re-evaluate on the river, but most players will most likely give you credit for some sort of a hand and fold there, mind you it would be hard to put you on a good hand with your PF play. The way you did play it, if you hit your straight or flush you will get paid very little and have no chance of taking the pot down, if you play this aggressively you have more chance of your main goal which is to take the pot down and secondly if you do hit you are more likely to get better paid.
You need to be putting your opponent to decisons at this level and you have made things far to easy for Mac here, In most cases Mac will be happy to get to a cheap showdown here and thats what you gave him.
The only good play in this hand I think is that you don't bet the river as I think you will nearly always get called here alot with hands you dont beat.

meathman 007 · 26-07-2007 9:14pm

digiman wrote:

This hand is really bad, if you play suited gap connecters like this then you should just fold them preflop. I would play hands like that very aggressive on a board like this.
On the flop your OOP and your bet just cries of weakness, 8 into a 22 pot is just terrible, you should have bet at least 15 here. If I get called I bet 40 on the turn and if he calls then I re-evaluate on the river, but most players will most likely give you credit for some sort of a hand and fold there, mind you it would be hard to put you on a good hand with your PF play. The way you did play it, if you hit your straight or flush you will get paid very little and have no chance of taking the pot down, if you play this aggressively you have more chance of your main goal which is to take the pot down and secondly if you do hit you are more likely to get better paid.
You need to be putting your opponent to decisons at this level and you have made things far to easy for Mac here, In most cases Mac will be happy to get to a cheap showdown here and thats what you gave him.
The only good play in this hand I think is that you don't bet the river as I think you will nearly always get called here alot with hands you dont beat.

yea completely agree - if you look at my critique of my play i posted eaelier, ive basically said exactly what you said, oop, small bet on flop etc etc

Now that i think about it, its probly the worst hand ive played in the last 2 weeks - pity its been highlighted! - but i dont think its fair to base my play on that hand alone. As i said, i have a lot of leaks, probly just needed them to be highlighted like they have been in this thread for me to act of them....... keep the advice coming....

Macspower · 26-07-2007 9:15pm

best of luck and I'll see you at the tables.......

RedJoker · 27-07-2007 6:36am

meathman 007 wrote:

Red Joker: If you had bothered to read the whole thead , you would notice that i have agreed with virtually all of the comments i have got on my play - so where the hell did this comment come from:

'stop disagreeing with people, they're right.'

Personally i dont hate limping with small pocket pairs, thats the only comment i made

meathman 007 wrote:

Ok, this hand just went through that hand on poker tracker. First off, my call with the 8/6 of clubs to a 9 dollar raise before the flop is questionable to say the least - out of position etc etc..... after that im ok with my play.
............
my mistake was calling preflop, i dont hate my post flop play, apart from the bet size.......

This quote and the limping pocket pairs thing was what I was referring to when I made that comment.

Unfortunately I feel that set the wrong tone for the rest of my post, my use of caps lock and some rather strong comments didn't help matters, sorry.

I did read the whole thread and I felt a lot of the time you weren't taking much of the advice onboard, things like 'I normally never do this, just happened twice in our session today!'. Continually arguing that limping PP and SCs isn't a bad play when everyone in this thread who has commented on you limping PPs has said that it is a bad play, and two people have elaborated and explained why raising is a better play. If you would like to present an argument for why you feel limping is a better play, or argue the points we made, than we'd be happy to discuss it in more depth. You seem to just be agreeing with what you've already worked out for yourself, limping too much etc., without paying attention to the other leaks people are pointing out:

meathman 007 wrote:

Macspower wrote:

First of all I had you buddied in about 20 mins and the following notes are attached to you....
"limp caller" " has folded to 3rd bullet a few times" "limps pocket pairs" "bad calling station dont bluff him"

Yep, i pointed this out earlier as one of my leaks - i tend to limp with certain hands and nearly always call the raise if there is one.... can you elaborate on the '3rd bullet a few times'.....? - secondly, i agree i probobly call a bit to much and should reraise on the flop a lot more......

Macs never mentioned anything about reraising on the flop. Why do you think you should be reraising on the flop?

A player who's actively searching for you and trying to play against you to make money just told you why he's doing that. I'd pay close attention to what he said if I were you.

meathman 007 wrote:

'From your stats and your comments in this thread it's highly unlikely you have the ability to beat 50nl. Move down and get better or cash out'

Right ok, thats your opinion. As i said in my original post, i only play 3 hours a day, and grinding it out at the lower levels dosnt interest me. Getting better and using my accumulated bankroll to continue to make money at 1/2 is all im interested in ...... any other advice appreciated...
As i said, i deposited no money, so getting to 2500 is not bad, sure maybe it is just a hot streak..... but sure i may as well try and make as much as i can out of it!

I didn't notice this before but you are underrolled for 1-2, you need at least 4000 (if you don't plan to deposit again).

'Getting better and using my accumulated bankroll to continue to make money at 1/2 is all im interested in '

You get better by listening to the advice you've been given and implementing it. Also post hand histories with your analysis for making certain plays so people can comment on them. Read other threads about hands that were played and make your own comments on them, see if people agree with you and, if they don't, what their reasons are. Read the 2+2 forums.

You make money playing at a level that 1) you're bankrolled for and 2) you have an edge in.

Can you honestly say you have both those things at 200nl?

I came to the opinion that you don't have the ability to beat 50nl based on your stats and your analysis of your 8-6 hand. Completely ignoring how you played the hand at the time, your analysis afterwards is very poor:

meathman 007 wrote:

Ok, this hand just went through that hand on poker tracker. First off, my call with the 8/6 of clubs to a 9 dollar raise before the flop is questionable to say the least - out of position etc etc..... after that im ok with my play. I miss the flop, so i lead out with 8 (probly shoud have bet about 14/15) because the king could scare you off with a lot of hands - underpair to the king, a/q, a/j etc etc.... the turn then gives me a flush draw, so i continue betting (again i probly should have bet more - the river then comes a 8 - so i miss the flush, but i have made middle pair on the board, so i check it down........ my mistake was calling preflop, i dont hate my post flop play, apart from the bet size.......

'I miss the flop, so i lead out with 8 because the king could scare you off with a lot of hands - underpair to the king, a/q, a/j etc etc....'

Do you have any idea what Macs' range is here? Try to come up with a range and give reasons for why you think this. What are you trying to represent by betting, how often do you limp-call preflop with Kx? Then tell me why betting is better than any other alternative and what hands the other alternatives represent.

'(probly shoud have bet about 14/15) '

You mentioned that your bet was too small, me and digiman already pointed out the reason for this. Could you elaborate on why your bet shows weakness, how would somebody or, more importantly, you play a monster here?

'the turn then gives me a flush draw, so i continue betting'

Why?

'so i miss the flush, but i have made middle pair on the board, so i check it down'

Why?

My point is that you aren't really thinking about why you're betting, what you're representing, what your opponent might have, why you think he might have that, how he'll respond to your bets with certain hands, etc., etc., etc.

Now obv it's very difficult to do all this in the middle of a hand (and you won't need to do it for most hands anyway) but you should be able to do it afterwards. By doing this a lot you will be better prepared when similar situations arise.

I hope my tone wasn't too harsh this time and that you got something out of this post.

meathman 007 · 27-07-2007 9:40am

RedJoker wrote:

This quote and the limping pocket pairs thing was what I was referring to when I made that comment.

Unfortunately I feel that set the wrong tone for the rest of my post, my use of caps lock and some rather strong comments didn't help matters, sorry.

I did read the whole thread and I felt a lot of the time you weren't taking much of the advice onboard, things like 'I normally never do this, just happened twice in our session today!'. Continually arguing that limping PP and SCs isn't a bad play when everyone in this thread who has commented on you limping PPs has said that it is a bad play, and two people have elaborated and explained why raising is a better play. If you would like to present an argument for why you feel limping is a better play, or argue the points we made, than we'd be happy to discuss it in more depth. You seem to just be agreeing with what you've already worked out for yourself, limping too much etc., without paying attention to the other leaks people are pointing out:

Macs never mentioned anything about reraising on the flop. Why do you think you should be reraising on the flop?

A player who's actively searching for you and trying to play against you to make money just told you why he's doing that. I'd pay close attention to what he said if I were you.

I didn't notice this before but you are underrolled for 1-2, you need at least 4000 (if you don't plan to deposit again).

'Getting better and using my accumulated bankroll to continue to make money at 1/2 is all im interested in '

You get better by listening to the advice you've been given and implementing it. Also post hand histories with your analysis for making certain plays so people can comment on them. Read other threads about hands that were played and make your own comments on them, see if people agree with you and, if they don't, what their reasons are. Read the 2+2 forums.

You make money playing at a level that 1) you're bankrolled for and 2) you have an edge in.

Can you honestly say you have both those things at 200nl?

I came to the opinion that you don't have the ability to beat 50nl based on your stats and your analysis of your 8-6 hand. Completely ignoring how you played the hand at the time, your analysis afterwards is very poor:

'I miss the flop, so i lead out with 8 because the king could scare you off with a lot of hands - underpair to the king, a/q, a/j etc etc....'

Do you have any idea what Macs' range is here? Try to come up with a range and give reasons for why you think this. What are you trying to represent by betting, how often do you limp-call preflop with Kx? Then tell me why betting is better than any other alternative and what hands the other alternatives represent.

'(probly shoud have bet about 14/15) '

You mentioned that your bet was too small, me and digiman already pointed out the reason for this. Could you elaborate on why your bet shows weakness, how would somebody or, more importantly, you play a monster here?

'the turn then gives me a flush draw, so i continue betting'

Why?

'so i miss the flush, but i have made middle pair on the board, so i check it down'

Why?

My point is that you aren't really thinking about why you're betting, what you're representing, what your opponent might have, why you think he might have that, how he'll respond to your bets with certain hands, etc., etc., etc.

Now obv it's very difficult to do all this in the middle of a hand (and you won't need to do it for most hands anyway) but you should be able to do it afterwards. By doing this a lot you will be better prepared when similar situations arise.

I hope my tone wasn't too harsh this time and that you got something out of this post.

ok thanks red joker, ok just a couple of points....

1. i never completely disagreed with any of the comments - i simply outlined my thaughts about small pocket pairs etc - i already said that i will take everything that has been said on board...
Ok, my argument for limping with small pocket pairs:
I think everyone agrees that getting in with small pocket pairs cheaply is a good play:
Personally i dont hate the play because, for example:
Im in early position with pocket threes - taken the advice on here i raise to 8 - i then get reraised to 24 by a player to act after me - so its now costing me a total of 24 to see the flop - my argument is that if i limp for 2, the same person who reraised to 24, would probly only make a standard raise to 8 - so its not only costing me 8 in total to see the flop. So lets say he has aces........i will flop a set of threes 1 in 7 - ok so its costing me about 56 dollars to see the flop seven times with the pocket threes by limping - if the guy has a full stack, i think i can probly take nearly all or all of his stack the one time i hit my small set - so it is a profitable play.......

2. ok the 86 hand - for a start i didnt limp call - i was in the small blind, so i called the buttons raise...... i put him on a wide range of hands for obvious reasons..... so when the king high flop comes, i decide to bet out trying to represent a relatively weak king like k/10 - my mistake was the size of my bet. On the turn i picked up a flush draw i decided to keep betting and keep representing the pair on the flop - so if the flush arrives on the river, its fairly hard to put me on. I then miss my flush and i make second pair of eights. At this stage its fairly hard to put my opponent on a hand, so i decide to check it down, to see if my pair of eights are good...... i dont see a problem with my thinking after the flop - ive already highlighted the 2 major mistakes - calling before the flop and the bet size.....

3. Ok in regards to the bankroll - i always buy into a game online with 75% of the max buy in - its a level i feel comfortable with..... so with my 2500 bankroll i have about 17 buy ins for a 1/2 game. Im fairly happy with that considering the rule that is generally accepted - only buy in for 5% of your bankroll at any one time - im only a couple of buy ins away from reaching that level - you could argue i should drop down until i reach that level - but i feel fairly comforable at 1/2 at the minute. If you ask anyone on here who plays on ipoker, there is a huge amount of complete idiots who basically hand there money to you at 1/2...... obviously there is also a good few quality players at the level......so far i dont really have a problem with the ratio of good to bad players at the 1/2 level....

In this thread a couple of hands have been highlighted which i played badly in - i dont think thats a reflection of how i have played over the past few weeks.
If i can use all the good things ive been doing and implement the great advice ive got on here i think i can handle 1/2 - of course i could be proven wrong, but sure its a challenge anyway....

Macspower · 27-07-2007 10:05am

the best thing you did all week was to come here and look for advice. RJ's advice is spot on as usual...

your thinking on pp's is flawed for previous reasons.....

from my previous post....

"you have a chance now with a free bankroll that you are guaranteed to leave at the tables unless you change immediately....

Move down to 50/1 immediately and impliment the above for starters..... if you can't do this then withdraw the moey and take a holiday with it.... and enjoy...

you have the potential and a free bankroll to play with if you decide to do so...."

also perhaps you should post some more hands for analaysis. the hands i posted were 2 we got involved in.

I'm not having a go at you here but you need a reality check.... better get it here than at the tables... do yourself a favour and move down the levels until you can consistantly beat 50/1 using full buy in's.. in the session we played you left the table with over 600 i think which is 1/4 of yout BR at the min.. you really should not have had anything if it was't for positive variance......

take the advice that is been given.. and that me and RJ and others have taken the time to post... I'm not posting more on the subject but it's up to you now.....

best of luck..... and if you insist on continuing....see you at the tables

Mac

meathman 007 · 27-07-2007 10:08am

thanks to everyone who has posted advice - gonna try and take all of it on board.... mods please close the thread....

Poker tracker stats onto boards....

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