How often do you min raise?

NickyOD

Conformity has always been the biggest cause of online betting patterns. If it's cool to slowplay.. slowplay.. overbet the river then everyone starts doing it but then people start doing it with air. Then someone decides it's better to lead out your monsters so then everyone starts donk betting.

Then there is the check min raise, probably the play that strikes the most fear into any player who doesn't know his opponent. At first people were cold calling flops with sets then check min raising the turn. This then branched out into check min raising top pair and on draws and even min raising the river with air on a stone cold bluff to represent the nuts.

What is always true of on-line ring games is change in the way people bluff and the way they play big hands. The same reads last year are different now because even complete idiots realise they need to adapt and change.

With that in mind how plausible is it to bring min raising into your own game?

I watched an episode of the EPT last night. The button limps, SB completes, BB checks. I think the flop was 268 with 2 spades. Norwegian guy in SB who does very well (I think his name is Yolander) has J-4o and checks. BB bets out with top pair 89, button folds and Yolander min riases with bottom pair and no draw. The BB just grumbles and instamacks his hand. Now any thinking player whould realise that on a draw heavy flop Yoland is playing a real hand this way but he probably thinks his oponent is just bad and weak.

Having spoken toa friend who recently returned form Vegas he told me about all the min raising going on in ring games and how everyone runs for the hills when they see it. So he started floating and min raising the turn with air and it worked well enough to be profitable.

So here's my question. Surely it's perfectly okay to play a hand badly against an unthinking opponent if it works?

I can't remember ever intentionally min raising until this hand I just played in a tourney on starts. He had hardly played hand up to this point and I'm pretty sure I got him to lay down a middle pair.

I checked the flop because that's what I'd do with a King, and I know he isn't leading the turn with a full house so I call and min raise the river for value with my supposed AK.

Dealt to NickyOD [Ah Th]
KaSsKaRa: folds
NickyOD: raises 300 to 450
mikef777: calls 375
*** FLOP *** [4c Ks 4h]
mikef777: checks
NickyOD: checks
*** TURN *** [4c Ks 4h] [Kd]
mikef777: bets 600
NickyOD: calls 600
*** RIVER *** [4c Ks 4h Kd] [9h]
mikef777: bets 1050
NickyOD: raises 1050 to 2100
mikef777: folds
NickyOD collected 4350 from pot
NickyOD: shows [Ah Th] (two pair, Kings and Fours)

That hand then lead to this......

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NickyOD [9h 9d]
mikef777: raises 400 to 600
MazeOrBowie: folds
KaSsKaRa: folds
NickyOD: calls 500
Deco8: folds
*** FLOP *** [6c 8c 6h]
NickyOD: checks
mikef777: bets 800
NickyOD: calls 800
*** TURN *** [6c 8c 6h] [7d]
NickyOD: bets 7830 and is all-in
mikef777: calls 3785 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [6c 8c 6h 7d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NickyOD: shows [9h 9d] (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
mikef777: shows [5d 5c] (two pair, Sixes and Fives)
NickyOD collected 10570 from pot

Hectorjelly

I dont see how the hands are connected, in the 2nd hand you played weirdly (not great) and got some guy to call with just about the only hand that will call that you are ahead of. Do you think he called because
A) he had a straight draw and a pair
or
he had been minraised by you recently

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

I dont see how the hands are connected, in the 2nd hand you played weirdly (not great) and got some guy to call with just about the only hand that will call that you are ahead of. Do you think he called because
A) he had a straight draw and a pair
or
he had been minraised by you recently

Maybe you're right. Whatever about the second hand (I still like my play BTW) what about the first one?

phantom_lord

you had the best hand in the first one i think.

cardshark202

Yeah I see no connection between the 2 hands.

In hand 1 why won't he be leading the turn with a king?

I almost never min-raise, and if I do its in very specific spots on the river. Its generally a bad idea.

NickyOD

phantom_lord wrote:

you had the best hand in the first one i think.

from the amount of time it took him to fold and how tight he'd been playing I don't think so. It may have been a split though.

NickyOD

cardshark202 wrote:

Yeah I see no connection between the 2 hands.

In hand 1 why won't he be leading the turn with a king?

I almost never min-raise, and if I do its in very specific spots on the river. Its generally a bad idea.

Who the hell leads the turn with top house ona double paired board after both players check the flop? No one does, never never ever.

phantom_lord

i do

NickyOD

phantom_lord wrote:

i do

lol. I don't believe you. show me the HH.

mrflash

if he is a donk, and i think he is, then the two hands are connected, but only if he is a complete donk. i think the fact you showed the ace previous hand would lead him to believe you had something like ak, and for some weird reason he was willing to put all his chips in with rubbish like that, but well played (realtime lolzzzz) for getting all his chips, lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, its just so funny.

phantom_lord

lol, I'm not going through my databases to find those kinda hands unless there's a filter. I don't see why you wouldn't bet it, you'll get monkeys calling you down with the lower house.

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Who the hell leads the turn with top house ona double paired board after both players check the flop? No one does, never never ever.

I did this exact thing earlier. Your reaction is the precise reason why. Thats said everyone folded

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Thats said everyone folded

It's not the same situation unless you're HU.

ianmc38

i do it more than most and always find it effective. mostly i do it on the river but occasionally do it on other streets to induce a shove from an ovely aggressive opponent. Gets alot of bad press imo.

White Knight

I min raise on the turn in position (HU) to get a cheaper showdown

El Stuntman

ianmc38 wrote:

i do it more than most and always find it effective. mostly i do it on the river but occasionally do it on other streets to induce a shove from an ovely aggressive opponent. Gets alot of bad press imo.

it's illegal in some countries I hear

hot?

dacman

I almost stoped playing on i poker because of all the min raisng pre flop. its soo gay:rolleyes:.. In a recent live tourney i played some guy raised the 25/50 blinds to 100 preflop... very gay indeed..min raising the flop turn or river is fine. it can serve many purposes

Rb

Whenever I think they'll call a min-raise but fold to something bigger, but it's not all that often cause $50 or $100NL is littered with people who'll happily call a repot, or another half pot bet.

valor

of course he leads the turn with a K in hand one, wtf else would he do

mrflash

i min reraise in sng's against rocks only, when i have jj, qq as you will quickly find out where you are. they will call with ak maybe aq suited, but will only go over the top with the two hands that are beating you.

HiCloy

I'm always tempted to reminraise someone, I try to fight it