I'm a calling station (400NL iPoker)

cardshark202

Villain has just sat down, first hand in. He just joined one of my other tables though and was pretty active, especially postflop but I hadn't seen him show down anything yet. No reads or stats.


iPoker Itumeleng (No DP) 2/4, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop

Button cardshark202 ($406)
SB ($446.80)
BB ($350.60)
UTG ($421.20)
UTG+1 ($1198.70)
CO CO ($400) posts

Preflop: cardshark202 is on the Button with T Q
2 folds, CO checks, cardshark202 raises to 20, 2 folds, CO calls 16.

Flop (46) T 3 8
CO checks, cardshark202 bets 36, CO raises to 144, cardshark202 calls 108.

Turn (334) J
CO bets 236, cardshark202 calls 236.

River (806) K

Hectorjelly

Id fold because

A) you dont beat KT or AT
there are more streets to go and you you arent entirely sure you know what you want to dodge, ie if he has overcard/s and a flush draw you dont know what card to fold to
C) you have no read and no idea if he is capable of doing this with a worse hand

mrflash

88,33,9jhearts,akhearts,aqhearts a10,k10,aa,kk,qq,jj thats a lot of possibilities, no way, no call

phantom_lord

you can rule out a lot of those hands since he checked his posted blind.

mrflash

phantom_lord wrote:

you can rule out a lot of those hands since he checked his posted blind.

having no history on the guy, i dont know how he plays so you cannot rule out anything, i also added them at the end as more unlikely, thats the high pockets i presume you are talking about.

ocallagh

without stats on the guy he could be raising the flop with absolutely anything. AT or flush draw with overs, set, two pair etc. I don't like it. QT doesn't hold up well against that range.

pumpkinpints

i wouldnt be worried about AT/KT anyway as he can surely not expect to get three streets of value with it. He may have JT though and then tried to vlaue bet the turn. Other hands you beat are agressive flush draws, but again they could have backed into the King or Jack, but surely they check those hands as they have showdown value.
His line doesnt make sense, you beat a bluff, call.
He might have some sort of T8s type hand actually.

bohsman

I fold on the flop.

Hectorjelly

pumpkinpints wrote:

i wouldnt be worried about AT/KT anyway as he can surely not expect to get three streets of value with it. He may have JT though and then tried to vlaue bet the turn. Other hands you beat are agressive flush draws, but again they could have backed into the King or Jack, but surely they check those hands as they have showdown value.
His line doesnt make sense, you beat a bluff, call.
He might have some sort of T8s type hand actually.

His line makes perfect sense for a flopped set, two pair or overpair he was slowplaying preflop. Also for someone overplaying AT or KT. What do you think a player at 24 normally does when they check raise the flop? They bet the turn again with their entire range

BigCityBanker

your line is perfect if you are an individual who does not like money. otherwise fold.

insafehands

You were AI on the turn roysh?

cardshark202

Ok well my instinct said to call that mofo down so I did and held vs 86hearts which is pretty much what I figured he would have. Anyway shortly after that this hand comes up. Since then hes been playing super aggro postflop and seems like he may be on tilt. He doesn't seem too bad, just a little overaggro imo.


GAME #609566079: Texas Hold'em NL $2.00/$4.00 2007-07-25 23:45:26
Table Itumeleng (No DP)
Seat 1: tajtnisse ($1,196.70 in chips) DEALER
Seat 3: MANG0 ($409.60 in chips)
Seat 5: cardshark202 ($809.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Mattmys ($444.80 in chips)
Seat 8: MrPiiNii ($398.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Preussenhusar ($415.20 in chips)
MANG0: Post SB $2.00
cardshark202: Post BB $4.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cardshark202 [HJ DA]
Mattmys: Fold
MrPiiNii: Fold
Preussenhusar: Fold
tajtnisse: Fold
MANG0: Raise $12.00
cardshark202: Call $10.00
*** FLOP *** [H10 CJ C10]
MANG0: Bet $24.00
cardshark202: Call $24.00
*** TURN *** [H7]
MANG0: Bet $76.00
cardshark202: Call $76.00
*** RIVER *** [SK]
MANG0: Bet $295.60




PS: Can't seem to find a converter for raw HH's, Brian's one only works when I have the HH files, but once pt processes them I have no hope of finding the file.

cardshark202

HJ, come on what are the chances he plays a big pair like that after posting, or even AT or KT, especially with the cr size? These are usually combo draws and stuff. I figured the only hand I might be behind there was T8 really.

El Stuntman

I'd like to know your reasoning for each street, I don't think 'instinct' is a good enough reason in an online game with no reads/stats...

I think you played it poorly all round and got lucky

cardshark202

Well I had a smidgeon of a read as I mentioned in my first post. Since I had nothing else to go on, I just went with it. I've logged quite a few hands online over the past year or two, and have recently just moved to ipoker, and I think its important to try and get a feel for each player at the table, even from the moment they sit down. I think my play was quite high variance but I'm not gonna play scared and I am a station after all. I posted this hand because I thought it was a little strange as I don't usually have these confrontations with players before I have a more solid read.

As nickyod once said: "Every player has a story and I'm very good at reading people's stories"

phantom_lord

http://www.kjpoker.com/

valor

#1 is fine imo

#2 is a river fold

cardshark202

Yeah knew about that converter was just to lazy to sign up. I just did though so will use it from now on.

Hectorjelly

lol you put him on a pair and flush draw which is a favourite to your hand and called anyway. If his range is just good draws like this one and better hands then it was an awful call down.

Ive seen people check with AA having posted. I agree its unlikely but I wouldn't totally rule it out, and his post flop line could definitely be AA or KK

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

lol you put him on a pair and flush draw which is a favourite to your hand and called anyway. If his range is just good draws like this one and better hands then it was an awful call down.

Ive seen people check with AA having posted. I agree its unlikely but I wouldn't totally rule it out, and his post flop line could definitely be AA or KK

No im pnly a tiny dog vs a pair plus fd

EDIT: I think I'm a slight dog to his range if it includes all types of possible combo draws and maybe top two.

mdwexford

what??


---
990 games 0.016 secs 61,875 games/sec

Board: Th 3h 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.384% 48.38% 00.00% 479 0.00 { QcTc }
Hand 1: 51.616% 51.62% 00.00% 511 0.00 { 9h8h }

cardshark202

Sorry wasnt thinking straight post edited

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

No im pnly a tiny dog vs a pair plus fd

EDIT: I think I'm a slight dog to his range if it includes all types of possible combo draws and maybe top two.

you arent a slight dog, if he only turns up with hands that are 50 50 or have you crushed you are obviously in bad shape

cardshark202

Well I'm about 45-55 I think vs that range. Obv I could include all the overpair and set hands that I'm kinda ruling out and I'll be crushed badly. But I think he's as likely to have an overpair or a big set as he is to have total air. I could start including oesd's too then. Basically if I had a way to weight these hands within the range I could get a more accurate idea of how I fare vs him. I think I do well enough vs his range to make this good, albeit marginal and high variance, especially with the level of aggression in the games today. I might do the math later if I'm not too lazy.

I posted this hand because I thought it was a little frisky or whatever and will defend my actions to a point. If it turns out they're indefensible then obv I will agree. I haven't been convinced yet though.

Hectorjelly

you have to include sets or its meaningless. I think a set is quite likely relatively.

I'm not going to bother trying to convince you, its obvious that unless your opponent will can show up with Air or a worse made hand its hugely -ev. Its quite telling that you ended up getting all in against a hand that is a slight favourite to you.

valor

the three most important facts in my thinking that this play is fine are

a) he didnt raise preflop, making pocket pairs [10's and 8's more so than bottom set, but w/e] less likely and making better 10's less likely too
b) he posted. people often take on a mindset here that the button is attacking their post and then try to c/r the flop with any two cards they called with preflop
c) the size of the check raise - its just too big imo to represent a legitimately strong hand. I think we see a draw with this sized check raise ALOT more than an OP, 2pair or a set.

Van Dice

I fold to CR on flop, you know you have to call an all-in on the turn and I don't think your hand holds up well against a likely range, what HJ said really