Is my thinking bad here ( calling cash players )

nicnicnic

I never play cash but have decided to give it a try as from reading posts from boards cash players Cash is the way I should be spending my online time.

So playing last night the following hand occurred, I should add I would not play a hand in the manner I did in a tournament or stt. I'd like to hear from cash players re my logic I>E is it OK flawed or very bad.

I've been playing tight on the table for about an hour


Game #5174144464: Hold'em NL ($2/$5) - 2007/07/24 - 22:07:46 (DST)
Table "Keizan" Seat 1 is the button.
Seat 1: sidsnot ($522.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Anonpg1 ($1290.80 in chips)
Seat 3: Trans4m ($547.75 in chips)
Seat 4: breiflabb ($541 in chips)
Seat 5: upquark ($321.90 in chips)
Seat 6: PCbert ($1075 in chips)
Anonpg1: posts small blind $2
Trans4m: posts big blind $5

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HOLE CARDS

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dealt to sidsnot [Th Jh]
breiflabb: folds
upquark: folds
PCbert: raises to $20
sidsnot: calls $20
Anonpg1: raises to $85 he is playing about 6 tables and my thinking is this is a standard spot for a multi tabler to squeeze so consider a wide range. Am I right or wrong about this thinkingTrans4m: folds
PCbert: folds
sidsnot: calls $65 I'm knida floating here in my mind

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FLOP

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[2c Jc 8d]
Anonpg1: bets $175
sidsnot: raises to $437.35 and is all-in


terrible OK, or standard ?

bops

nicnicnic wrote:

Anonpg1 raises to $85 he is playing about 6 tables and my thinking is this is a standard spot for a multi tabler to squeeze so consider a wide range. Am I right or wrong about this thinking

i dissagree with the above - imo a 2/5 6 tabler is generally doing this with JJ+ AK - good players who 6 table 2/5 are generally reraiseing with premium hands, they haven't got time to fk about

your call of the origional 20 is fine imo, the call of the reraise is iffy - oop etc, the reraise all in is only beating a cbet AK imo and is very dangerous

nicnicnic

bops wrote:

i dissagree with the above - imo a 2/5 6 tabler is generally doing this with JJ+ AK - good players who 6 table 2/5 are generally reraiseing with premium hands, they haven't got time to fk about

your call of the origional 20 is fine imo, the call of the reraise is iffy - oop etc, the reraise all in is only beating a cbet AK imo and is very dangerous

cheers bops my thinking re the squeeze is that an ATC raise here is +EV so if I assume the guy is good then he should raise with ATC........ this is flawed ?

bohsman

Agree with bops, I call the 20 but not the reraise, also you really shouldnt be going broke with JT on a T high flop.

cardshark202

Did you have any other reads on the re-raiser Nicky? I think postflop is fine but to make preflop good I think you have to shove almost any flop, so I'm not sure I like the situation as a whole. I think you're better just folding preflop and moving on.

k101

i wouldnt call the 65 either. it represents too high percentage of your stack and you will bee oop on flop

ozpoker

nicnicnic wrote:

cheers bops my thinking re the squeeze is that an ATC raise here is +EV so if I assume the guy is good then he should raise with ATC........ this is flawed ?

I don't feel particularly qualified to have an opinion about these games, but I would think that this idea could be a pretty huge leak.

-Oz-

nicnicnic

cardshark202 wrote:

Did you have any other reads on the re-raiser Nicky? I think postflop is fine but to make preflop good I think you have to shove almost any flop, so I'm not sure I like the situation as a whole. I think you're better just folding preflop and moving on.

no reads as such but he has been trying to get at the initial raiser who is very bad

CaptainNemo

I think the fact that the guy is 6-tabling makes the play that you're describing much less likely. I wouldn't put him on a random hand here, I would think he has something decent. However having seen the flop you may well be tied to the hand as his range may include hands like 99, TT, AK, AQ.

I think you're more likely to be going broke on this hand than not, it's a very risky play. I think the initial call is OK but flopping top pair is not really what you're after when you call with JTs so maybe it wouldn't be bad to fold when he leads out.

bops

nicnicnic wrote:

cheers bops my thinking re the squeeze is that an ATC raise here is +EV so if I assume the guy is good then he should raise with ATC........ this is flawed ?

your thinking isn't flawed, it is very possible that it's a squeeze - but I just think there is a higher chance that he has a premium hand here. Good players will squeeze, but not that often imo especially when 6 tabling

call me crazy, but if you think the chances of a squeeze with maybe a semi-decent hand (eg 99 AJs etc) outweigh the chance of a "real" hand, i would push preflop - this would lead him to tightening his range down to QQ+ and maybe AK - seeing that you are oop with a nice drawing hand i'd rather this line


...the fact that the initial raiser is bad, and you are seen as tight - it would be a good time to squeeze though!

Van Dice

I've played a bit with Anonpg1 and I think that's ok, his 3-betting range is definitely a lot wider than most on Crypto. Wouldn't make a habit of it though

mdwexford

Nicky is not oop, hes on the button!!!!

i think 6 tabling makes it more likely hes playing abc poker than squeezing randomly with atc. hes getting 3/1 so you dont have a lot of fold equity, hes pretty much commited himself with a near pot sized flop bet and hes played the hand strongly, i think i fold the flop here as well

Hectorjelly

pre-flop is bad, flop is also bad. When you push he cant really call with a worse hand and he will never fold better. Just calling the flop + turn would be much better as you may of induced a bluff. You played the hand exactly how tournament players normally play cash games, ie badly!

BigCityBanker

Hectorjelly wrote:

You played the hand exactly how tournament players normally play cash games, ie badly!

Captain Tom

Hectorjelly wrote:

flop is also bad. When you push he cant really call with a worse hand and he will never fold better. Just calling the flop + turn would be much better as you may of induced a bluff.

i was going to say this but changed my mind. if nicky flat calls the flop there's ~$500 in the pot and he has ~$260 behind. if villian pushes turn he's getting around 3-1 and is basically never folding.

considering the villian is playing 6 tables i think we can assume he's decent and wont try and bluff in such a terrible spot. i think he's only ever putting more money in the pot if he turns/rivers the best hand. so isn't calling the flop basically giving him a chance to improve to the best hand with no real benefit?

Hectorjelly

I didn't realize how little was yet to go in, which makes preflop all the worse. I still think calling is probably slightly better.

nicnicnic

I said at the start of the post that I wouldn’t play a hand in this manner normally and I’m well aware that stand alone my play is pretty bad. What I was interested in are people’s views of my thoughts on the guy squeezing here being a standard enough

nicnicnic wrote:

raises to $85 he is playing about 6 tables and my thinking is this is a standard spot for a multi tabler to squeeze so consider a wide range. Am I right or wrong about this thinking

. This dictated how I played out the hand

nicnicnic wrote:

I'm knida floating here in my mind-

and I had decided I was shoving any flop.

It’s fairly irrelevant but here’s how it played out

Anonpg1: calls $262.35

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TURN

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[2c Jc 8d][8s]

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RIVER

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[2c Jc 8d 8s][7h]

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SHOW DOWN

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sidsnot: shows [Th Jh] (Two Pairs, Jacks and Eights, Ten high)
Anonpg1: shows [9s 9d] (Two Pairs, Nines and Eights, Jack high)
sidsnot collected $1066.70 from Main pot

so basically I was asking is there any justification for playing the hand the way I did based on my assumption that the SB should be squeezing here often if he any good

mrflash

nice one nicky, i dont play that much cash, but like the other guys, i would be wary of a multi tabler, their range is usually not that wide.

Hectorjelly

well its good for your image anyway

nicnicnic

Hectorjelly wrote:

well its good for your image anyway

interesting

Van Dice

Just bear in mind that there is a lot less light 3-betting on Crypto compared to say Full Tilt, as I said earlier Anonpg1 is an exception more than the rule. This play has more success on FT imo
Also I wouldn't shove any flop cos he in particular c-bets very close to full pot, and he won't fold if he's got anything.
nh though

RoundTower

raises to $85 he is playing about 6 tables and my thinking is this is a standard spot for a multi tabler to squeeze so consider a wide range.

I don't think you can know he is squeezing a lot based only on this. If you had stats that said he was particularly aggro or some read on how he views the original raiser then maybe, I would tend to assume he has some kind of a hand here though.

robinlacey

if you think he is squeezing you should 4bet some of the time and just fold and give up some of the time,i don't think calling is an option really,his 3bet is fairly substantial,there's just too much money gone in.once you call you probably do have to stack off when you hit top pair.

crypto isn't nearly as agressive as some other networks but people do still three bet a lot so this could easily be a squeeze,but the main factor in deciding how likely this is is how he's been playing for the last while,if he hasn't three bet at least five or so times in the hour you've been at the table i'd just let it go.

i don't agree with everyone saying that because he is 6 tabling he's not going to be squeezing much,i play 6-8 tables and 3bet loads,and there are lots of multi tablers more agressive than me out there!

robinlacey

i just realised that you weren't the original raiser which rules out 4betting completely (i often 4bet in this situation with AA or KK and get payed off with all sorts of stuff,no one ever believes you when you just flat called the first raise)

so yeah i'd just fold preflop.

nicnicnic

appreciate the replies as I said I never play cash and I'm just trying it out a little over the next few week's. I know I will make many mistakes. I didn't play the hand like I would in a tournament or stt ( think I fold 100%) on the assumption of him re raising light. But after the hand I kinda knew I just got lucky and that it wasn't good play even if my assumption was in the right area.

I'd imagine I'll be putting up a few more bad ones over the next few weeks

Gholimoli

nciky ,
your thought process is not sound.
you basically have not given any real reason as to why you think he may be sqzing ,all you have said is that you think it is a good spot to do so but that is a world apart from having good evidance that he is doing it.

also ppl who play more tables are required to play tighter,why?
cuz pulling moves successfully requires alot of information on opponents and that information is only gained by paying close attention to the action and players reactions and basically watching what is going on.
the more tables you are playing the less attention you can pay each table.

also if your image is tight i rather a raise with your hand than flat call.
not that calling is that bad and it does have it's merits but seen as you are only getting in to cash try and develop good habits from the start.
play less hands,play more of them in position,and play them aggressive.
this means tighter out of position and looser in position but aggressive in both.

once you strated raising in position and get a feel for the advantages it gives you post flop in deep stack poker,your game will change.
you will basically get a much better feel both for position and aggression.

also post as many hands as you can,everytime you are faced with a situation that you feel your stuck or you dont know what the best play is,post it up ,say exactly what you were thinking at the time and why (like this) and soon you will say loldonkaments...

nicnicnic

Gholimoli wrote:

nciky ,
your thought process is not sound.
you basically have not given any real reason as to why you think he may be sqzing ,all you have said is that you think it is a good spot to do so but that is a world apart from having good evidance that he is doing it.

also ppl who play more tables are required to play tighter,why?
cuz pulling moves successfully requires alot of information on opponents and that information is only gained by paying close attention to the action and players reactions and basically watching what is going on.
the more tables you are playing the less attention you can pay each table.

also if your image is tight i rather a raise with your hand than flat call.
not that calling is that bad and it does have it's merits but seen as you are only getting in to cash try and develop good habits from the start.
play less hands,play more of them in position,and play them aggressive.
this means tighter out of position and looser in position but aggressive in both.

once you strated raising in position and get a feel for the advantages it gives you post flop in deep stack poker,your game will change.
you will basically get a much better feel both for position and aggression.

also post as many hands as you can,everytime you are faced with a situation that you feel your stuck or you dont know what the best play is,post it up ,say exactly what you were thinking at the time and why (like this) and soon you will say loldonkaments...

cheers Gholi app the post, cant see me going with the very last statement they have been way to good to me