why is money for I.T contract work so good?

juanveron45

My brother is thinking of doing computers in college , he has seen that contract workers make very good money the thing is he was wondering if you need lots of experience to be able to go contracting or can you do it as a grad.

From the list of the following link which of these contract type I.T jobs could you get into fairly fast after college?

http://www.recruitireland.ie/careercentre/info/salarysurvey_it_contract.asp

seamus

Straight out of college, you're not going to be on massive money. What you learn in college, and what you do in the working world can be very different. College just gives you a good base to work from.

In reality, you're looking at programming, testing, and Helpdesk/Desktop/Level 1 support roles, all at the lower end of the salary scale.

Programming & testing would usually be done in a graduate intake course, and not straight into a contracting role. You just don't have the experience.

Although the money for contracting looks good, there's a reason for it. In a normal job where someone is your employer, they look after all your tax affairs, they pay PRSI, they give you benefits, they give you paid holidays, they provide you with the tools to do your job, they provide you with a job that's relatively stable. More importantly, most employers will provide you with training - which is one of the keys to improving the amount of money you command.

When you're contracting, you get none of this. You can be out of a job just as soon as you'd be into one, and you can find yourself with no dole and a big tax bill if you've failed to look after your tax affairs.

juanveron45

What advice would you give him regarding what course/degree to do and where to do it if he wanted to be able to get into contracting as quickly as possible?

jimmycrackcorm

juanveron45 wrote:

What advice would you give him regarding what course/degree to do and where to do it if he wanted to be able to get into contracting as quickly as possible?

Contracters get paid so much because they either know a specialist area that few people know or that they have a lot of experience in a specific industry. Either way they get paid for their knowledge and you don't get that in college.

Timmy_d

Either way they get paid for their knowledge and you don't get that in college

So where do u get it...

nesf

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Contracters get paid so much because they either know a specialist area that few people know or that they have a lot of experience in a specific industry. Either way they get paid for their knowledge and you don't get that in college.

They are also paid more because as they are not employees generally they need a bit extra to compensate for the lack of job security, benefits etc. (not that all self-employed people get this, just the skilled ones generally do)

Stephen

Timmy_d wrote:

Either way they get paid for their knowledge and you don't get that in college

So where do u get it...

Industry experience. I use pretty much nothing I learned in my course in college in my job.

kippy

Contracting, as stated above is not as easy to get into as you appear to believe, although I have to say, I have seen some idiots who really hadnt a clue manage to blag their way into some decent contracting jobs - not to be advised as you'll generally get found out and not work for the same company again.

I know theres a lot of money in the programming side of things and generally the more and better the experience you have with a particuliar language you have the more money you can potentially command.
If you are working for a support point of view, getting experience with real world situations together with MCSE,CCNA and general vendor qualifications will allow you to get more money contracting.

Personally, I've consulted for a large multinational in dublin for 6 weeks.
The job was answering phones, resolving issues over the phone or escalating issues. Very basic work but I was getting 4 times more than the standard rate for this type of work because they needed someone who could fill in for 6 weeks while they staffed up. Easy money but I had 4 years experience behind me and an MCSA (which was irrelevant but looks good to HR)
Depending on your interests, there are a number of courses you can do-theres no point doing a programming based course when networking appeals to you more (even if you may get contract/consulting jobs quicker doing programming)

Raskolnikov

juanveron45 wrote:

From the list of the following link which of these contract type I.T jobs could you get into fairly fast after college?

I have never heard of anyone getting contract work fresh out of college (at the rates quoted on the website you link to). There are companies like CPL/HP/IT Alliance/etc who offer contract work to graduates but the salaries they offer are derisory (€20k a year).

If your brother does his degree, I'd say he'd need a minimum of 3 years experience before he even has a chance at going into work as a contractor.

bryanbal

advise your bro not to go into IT. Only way to break into it is through graduate courses. majority of companies only take on experienced people.

fret_wimp

The first thing I learned after getting a job is that you know nothing after leaving college. college serves to get you a degree, a piece of paper to prove you have the ability to learn on your own and to take on challenges and that you have aptitude for the area of profession. Once you get a job the learning starts all over again. Where do you gain expirience, by pushing yourself of course. studying after work, taking on challenges currently above you, working hard. Yes there is money in IT, but to get huge money you need a few years expirience in your particular field ( programming, databases, support etc). Just a note, many people in our IT dept did not do IT courses, they just started at the very bottom and worked up. ANd they are doing really really well for themselves now. So there is ways in besides college, but they take time, but they can be worthwhile. I have been offered contract work straight out of college, but i turned it down because the money wasnt great and I got an offer of a Full time job. Perhaps il do some contracting someday but at present im quite comfortable, and i have been expanding my skills. if your in the IT industry you have to be constantly learning and updating your skills.

mountainyman

Advise your brother against IT unless he already enjoys messing around with computers. It is being driven down all the time.

The way into contracting is to:

Get a good permanent job after college. Ideally with a bank (though I think Bearing Point are the best crowd to work for getting blooded in Ireland a couple of Irish consultancies are crackerjack too.)
Get real world experience with a high demand business sector and or technology.
Get some certifications and demonstrable experience. (Ideally cross training with accountancy).

This will typically take a few years. The more specialised the better.

You need the technical skills and the sectoral skills too.

MM

jackbhoy

juanveron45 wrote:

My brother is thinking of doing computers in college , he has seen that contract workers make very good money

This is a very bad reason to chose a college course, unless of course he has real interest in it.
No amount of money will compensate you for doing a job you don't like for rest of your career.
If he decides to go ahead then the previous posters are correct, in my experience you need at least 3 years of relevant work experience before you'll get any contract work. The best money will be in niche technologies or very specialist areas e.g. SAP, Mainframe development, DBA/database development on DB2/Oracle/Teradata etc., certification in these kind of areas will help too.

jackbhoy

seamus wrote:

When you're contracting, you get none of this. You can be out of a job just as soon as you'd be into one, and you can find yourself with no dole and a big tax bill if you've failed to look after your tax affairs.

Yes but on the other hand if you are smart you can get away with paying very little tax, as a PAYE worker you can't stop the taxman taking his 48% every month.

nesf

jackbhoy wrote:

Yes but on the other hand if you are smart you can get away with paying very little tax, as a PAYE worker you can't stop the taxman taking his 48% every month.

Yeah, but it costs money to hire someone that can actually do that for you. It's not as easy to do it legally as a lot of people like to think.

Boston

jackbhoy wrote:

Yes but on the other hand if you are smart you can get away with paying very little tax, as a PAYE worker you can't stop the taxman taking his 48% every month.

You're working for a company mate, you're not some plumber that gets paid under the table for a bit of weekend work. There are records of how much you earn and when you earned it. You can avoid the tax man for awhile(usually involves changing jobs twice or three times in a tax year) but eventually if you want a more stable job or if they twig what you're doing you'll have to pay what you owe and they can go back as far as they like with their audit. Fines are not nice.

In order to work for a company you need to provide a P45 or Tax clearance cert if you're not Paye.

I don't think you're actually avoiding tax yourself, as most of what you hear is just the usualy bull**** down the pub from people who are neither smart, nor are they paying "very little".

mathie

Well you can claim all sorts of stuff.

Mileage, public transport, home office (including a PC), meetings (in restaurants)

i.e. anything you can prove is work related.

I can imagine how some people could 'abuse' it.

M

Spud83

You need alot of experience and proven abaility in a field before people will hire you as a contractor. Normally when somebody hires a contractor they want them to be able to come in do the job and leave. With no help, training, etc. For this reason they will only hire people who have proven themselves in the industry. In all honesty your looking at a four year college course, and about four years experience before you can look at doin contracting.

The main plus of it is, you can work as much as you want I know some people who contract for six months of the year and this gives them enough to take the next six months off. Not alot of saving being done, but still a good way to live if you can manage it.

seamus

mathie wrote:

Well you can claim all sorts of stuff.

Mileage, public transport, home office (including a PC), meetings (in restaurants)

i.e. anything you can prove is work related.

I can imagine how some people could 'abuse' it.

M

You really want to know your ins and outs, and have it straight in your head first though.

It seems like a complete larf writing off a big drinking session as a business lunch, but when the guys from the revenue start querying the receipt for a bottle of tequila and a salt shaker, you're boned.

mathie

seamus wrote:

You really want to know your ins and outs, and have it straight in your head first though.

It seems like a complete larf writing off a big drinking session as a business lunch, but when the guys from the revenue start querying the receipt for a bottle of tequila and a salt shaker, you're boned.

You can't claim alcohol at business meetings.

M

seamus

mathie wrote:

You can't claim alcohol at business meetings.

M

Yes, but how many people know that

mathie

seamus wrote:

Yes, but how many people know that

The ones who won't get busted
M

nesf

mathie wrote:

The ones who won't get busted
M

In so many ways the tax system is like a form of Social Darwinism.