1st Coffee Machine

banaco73

Hi All
Have been reading some of you threads and found them very usefull.

Called to brown thomas today and am very intrested in getting a machine this week.

I went in to look at the Gaggia Classic and ending up getting a sample expresso from the ASCASO Dream Seems to be the Job also looked at the new mini grinder from the same company.

Any pros or cons


Keith

Mr Magnolia

Hi Keith. Have you a budget in mind for the grinder and the machine, or both?

I bought the Classic last week in BT and am very happy with it even though I'm still fine tuning it. It cost me €350 for the machine. Cheaper black version available for €300.

I also purchased an Iberital MC2 from happydonkey.co.uk for the equivalant of €200. I'm very pleased with the results from it too.

Let us know your budget(s) and do plenty of sampling and research. Don't buy it this week unless you're totally covinced

banaco73

Hi

Was thinking of just the machine this week but after being in to bt i think that i will go for the set

did not get a chance to look at the gaggia classic as i ran out of time and there was no sales person on the stands when i arrived.

The ASCASO Dream was coming in at €625 less 10%
the Mini Grinder was about €169 or €189

The Classic you picked up for €350 seems a good buy how does it compare to the Dream

Keith

banaco73

QUOTE=Mr Magnolia]
I also purchased an Iberital MC2 from happydonkey.co.uk for the equivalant of €200. I'm very pleased with the results from it too.

Hi

Had a look at the Grinder that you purchased dimensions a little big bar the acsaso mini is there anything else of that size that does a good job.

Keith:)

hshortt

Highly recommend the Ascaso Dream and the Mini Grinder. I got myself the same grinder and another Ascaso, my dad has the Dream. It's a great machine.

Removeable water tank makes filling from the tap easy, solid construction, quality parts and excellent coffee. I was much more impressed with the Ascaso line in BTs. I found the Gaggia classic to be another quality machine but the version in Black is a definate no-no! Plastics don't make for a good experience

The dream is an expensive machine but it does look the business too so it won't be out of place in any kitchen. I have just one wish for the machine. Replace the Orange LEDs with Blue ones

Cheerio
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

I had a look at the black Classic in BT, while there do seem to be plastic spouts on the portafilter (madness). The body is not plastic.

The Ascaso line are top notch, and I think that grinder is exceptional value. However, €625 seems a bit expensive for that particular machine. You can buy a Rancilio Silvia for €459 (http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/rancilio_coffee_machines.html). The Classic is €350.

You have to ask yourself what your requirements are. All 3 machines are single, dual purpose boiler machines. If you go onto any of the big coffee forums online people wax lyrical about the Silvia. But the other two machines also have good reps (although the Ascaso is less well known, especially in the states). Stepping up from the Classic to one of the other two gets you a full brass boiler with bigger capacities, this will require a longer heat up time, but will also give you better steaming capacity and theoretically less of a mid shot temp swing. Beware of overshoot though!

I'll put it another way, if I was spending €600 on an espresso machine, I don't think I'd rush into the Ascaso Dream.

It depends on your priorities for a machine though. Are you more interested in milk based drinks or mostly just espresso? If you're gonna be doing a lot of milk steaming you might want to consider a dual boiler machine - like the Gaggia Baby Twin - which would still run you under the price of the Ascaso Dream.

Maybe you really like the Ascaso Dream's aesthetics... or judging by your comment about the size of the grinder... space is an issue. If that is a serious priority, i'd consider pairing the mini ascaso grinder with a FrancisFrancis X3 (also available on espressocoffeeshop.com). It lacks the solenoid valve of the other machines, but its about half the price of the Ascaso Dream, and it has a very small footprint, and got a great review from coffeegeek.com.

http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/francisfrancisx3

There are also La Pavoni lever espresso machines which fall into your budget. They look amazing, and are quite small, but have a steeper learning curve.

banaco73

Did also like the Blue Led on the Duo Machine that you bought yourself.

Hope it is going well

Keith

banaco73

Thank you Re*ac*tor

Lots of Info and thank you for the images.

The machine will be used for Expresso / Americano on a daily basis and then at weekends will run off a few latta's

From Reading brfore I put up my post I was really intrested in the Silvia because of the reviews I do not think that I seen a bad one. But then I could only find them on line so was not able to get a look or sample from one.

Made my Trip to BT where I has intended to look at the Gaggia Classic and ended up looking at the Dream which looks super and seems easy to use. The Price was €625.00 Less 10% (€562.50) in the sale until sunday next.

Made a trip to HOF today in the Dundrum Centre they Have the Brushed Steel Gaggia Classic on Sale at €360.00 until sunday with a set of 6 Expresso cups, box of twenty pods and a tin of coffee. The Display model was looking a bit worse for ware and was not that impressed with the Steam Valve seemed a little weak.

Then had a look at the information that you put up for me I do not think i need the dual boiler one. The Lever one mabey in the future. The FF X3 has a small foot Print and is well priced.

What it boils down to on the 4 machines the Dream, Silvia, Classic or FF X 3 is which one is best suited for me a novice when it come to making my own I have beed keeping the coffee shops in Sandyford in Business for the last few years.

Good Expresso Ease of Use and Qualitity of Machine are the main factors.
I Like the look of all 4

Would not be adverse to buying the silvia online if I got a good recommendation.

The mini Grinder from Ascaso is a cert.

I am nearly there.

hshortt

You have it narrowed down, and all the machines you have in your final list appear to be solid and have good reviews. I had bought an automatic machine online and had a terrible experience, so I'd recommend a physical viewing if possible and only an online purchase from a reputable company. RE*AC*TOR will advise you accordingly for the best online places. I considered the Silvia myself as it's got a fantastic following.

Cheerio
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/rancilio_silvia.html

for the Silvia and free (orders over €300 have free shipping) 2 day delivery (day after next day).

There is a lot to be said though for buying in a place like BT, after sales service will be a lot easier. However, I must say, it is hugley unlikely on any of the mentioned machines that you will have a mechanical problem.

I have nothing bad to say about the Ascaso Dream, its just not as well known. The Silvia is known inside out. If you need advice on how to improve your espresso shots, google will yield vast quantities of info on the Silvia, while the Dream could be more difficult.

However, I will say this - I have a Gaggia Classic, and although the other two machines have superior technical specifications (in some regards), its is unlikely that I would be able to create a discernably better espresso with either of them instead of the Gaggia. I will say this about the Gaggia Classic - the steam wand is terrible, once you take of the froth aid plastic nonsense thing - its too short. I leave the inner attachment bit of the froth aid on to add length, but its still not the big proper arm of the Silvia (i may even get myself a Silvia arm instead).

As mentioned before, the F!F! X3 does not have a 3 way solenoid valve. This may result in portafilter sneeze if you take out the portafilter before the pressure has released. Personally, I owned a Gaggia Cubika for a few years, it had no solenoid, it was never a problem for me. The other area where a solenoid can be useful is in cleaning the machine - its called backflushing and it is an easy way of keeping the grouphead clean.

That said, the X3 is fairly funky looking and can produce excellent cups of espresso. Read the review and make up your own mind...
http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/francisfrancisx3

That review also compares the Ascaso Arc (formerly Innova Arc) to the X3 and the Silvia (remember the X3 is substantially cheaper).

They can be bought from the same crowd for €299
http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/francisfrancis.html

I would suggest if you are going that route that you add on some beans to push the order over €300 to get the free shipping...
http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/product346.html


This is a bloody hard decision. I'm not even sure what I'd do at this stage, but I think the Rancilio Silvia and Ascaso I-mini are the safest bet.

rockbeer

I would say there's no comparison between the Dream and the Silvia. The Dream is a home machine, whereas I've used the Silvia in a light commercial environment (and still do occasionally) where it more than holds its own for espresso making although its single boiler makes it a liability for steaming in such situations. Everything on it is built to last. Rancilio make top quality cafe machines and this shows in the Silvia, which really is like a miniature commercial machine both to use and in the quality of the components and build. The Ascasos are nice but they don't compare in this respect.

You won't believe the weight of the portafilter - it's heavier than on my Wega commercial.

It has a big solid brass boiler and heavy group-head, which maintain temperature stability throughout the shot. This is vital to getting quality espresso and seems to be the main thing that elevates the Silvia above the rest. You also get great steaming power in the Silvia for such a small boiler, whereas the steam felt a bit weak and wet on the Ascaso I tried.

In the end it's down to the coffee, and what you get from the Silvia is right up there. And it's so much cheaper than the dream that you'll have nearly enough left over for the grinder.

I really wouldn't worry about buying online, there are plenty of good and reputable dealers out there. To name three:

Ristretto: http://www.ristrettocoffee.com/home.asp
Lots of people have used these folk and they have a good rep. They do an amazing espresso blend too.

http://www.myespresso.co.uk/ - I got mine from here and they were really helpful, delivery quick and reasonably priced, can recommend them personally.

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/ - probably the cheapest prices overall.

RE*AC*TOR's excellent post sums up the range, but don't let yourself think all the machines he's listed are equivalent in performance. As he points out, the FF X3 doesn't have a 3-way solenoid valve. This may sound like an insignificant technical detail but believe me this puts in in a lower league than the others. It really does all depend on your priorities. Personally if I was shelling out that kind of money I'd look seriously at the Silvia. I had a close look at the Ascaso in BTs and it was clear the weight and build quality, although excellent for a home machine, were not up to the standard of the Silvia. I think the Ascasos are fine machines, I have their l-2 grinder and am really happy with it, but even on sale they're overpriced in BTs IMHO and you will certainly do better online for the money.

One other thing: I was chatting to a guy at the weekend who recently bought an Ascaso from BTs, he had a few problems with it and according to him their after-sales service wasn't all it might be, and certainly not what you'd expect from BTs. I know this is anecdotal - does anyone else have any experience of BT's service?

hth, good luck whatever you decide.

kencleary

Hmmmm I recently bought a Gaggia Selecta Deluxe for €150 from Home Store + More. It looks absolutely identical to the Gaggia Classic available for €350 in BT. Anyone know what the differences are?

RE*AC*TOR

@Rockbeer - good post. A couple of minor points though, its next to impossible to buy an Ascaso online, certainly not from any well know supplier, so I'm not sure if the comparison is fair. One place I found http://www.auravita.com/products/aura/FAFX10260.asp?RefId=800&adid=FAFX10260 cost about €530 - while that's cheaper than BT, not so cheap that I wouldn't just prefer to walk into a shop, pick up the machine and walk home.

Second point, is that you must remember that this is for home use, and while I have no doubt about the quality of the Silvia, in some respects, from what I've read, it can be a very particular machine - fine if you are willing to invest a little extra time to learn the tricks and eccentricities - but for everyone?

Still you certainly know more about the Silvia than I do, and I'm arguing against myself a little, cause I suggested the Silvia, but I just wouldn't be so quick to write off the others.

RE*AC*TOR

kencleary wrote:

Hmmmm I recently bought a Gaggia Selecta Deluxe for €150 from Home Store + More. It looks absolutely identical to the Gaggia Classic available for €350 in BT. Anyone know what the differences are?

No 3-way Solenoid for starters. As far as I know its an old Gaggia Coffee in a Gaggia Classic Body. Most Gaggias use the same pump and boiler, and probably grouphead so, the differences might be minor after the valve.

AFAIK the selecta deluxe was made in a limited basis for a big european retailer. They are now flogging off all the excess stock, that's why its available so cheaply.

BTW - you should start your own thread instead of using this one

hshortt

Ascaso's online from http://www.fairfaxcookshop.com/ which is the same company that sell them in BT's. You've got lots of info now Keith, which I'm sure only adds to the level of confusion. Good luck with your decision and let us know how you get on.

Cheerio
Howard

hshortt

Does the Silvia have a portafilter for pods? This could be another difference between this and the Ascaso dream.

I like the look of the Gaggia Twin as posted previously, this would offer a good balance of price/performance while saving enough to get the grinder too.

Cheerio
Howard

rockbeer

hshortt wrote:

Does the Silvia have a portafilter for pods?

A pod kit is available for the Silvia. It didn't used to be supplied as standard, not sure whether it is or not with the new models, but one is definitely available.

RE*AC*TOR

I don't understand why the pod thing would be an issue.. surely all you have to do is put it in the bin and problem solved!

I wouldn't hold having a pod portafilter against a machine.

hshortt

But Pods are wife friendly!

banaco73

All the info was great but does add to the confussion so took it all on board and ordered a Rancilio Silvia for €459 on www.espressocoffeeshop.com

Got the size from www.rancilio.com on a handy PDF download measured up the counter area and we are ready to go order placed today 25th @ 19.00 so we will see how long it takes to arrive.

Also ordered the POD Adaptor (€52.00) as Howard (hshortt) says
"But Pods are wife friendly!"

Found this other good site that had some good information, prices and also take paypal.

www.bella-italia.com
(LaGondola.it)

Just need to get the other half which is the grinder I think i will be going to BT for This for the Ascaso I-mini.

This will be the main items will I need any other items to get me going?

Keith:)

Gran Hermano

Congrats on the purchase..

Unless Ranco ship one as standard, get yourself a proper metal tamper:

Mr Magnolia

Maybe some good beans and a tamper. Have you got good water at home?

Best of luck with the purchase's.

Edit/ Gran Hermano beat me too it....

Edit/Edit/ I purchased a tamper similar to this one from Happydonkey.co.uk

banaco73

Water is good in the house.

The Silvia Ships with a Plastic Tamper

Does it affect the quality of the coffee Depending on weather you use a metal or plastic Tamper or is a just an easy of use.

Will need some advice re the beans while i am getting to grips with the machine I would like to get some good well prices beans. Then once I have got to grips with it will get some better quality Beans

Keith:)

Gran Hermano

Plastic tampers are fiddly to use as you need to put a decent amount
of pressure on the grounds when packing the portafilter.
I was surprised how much easier and how better my shots were
when I upgraded the from the plastic tamper that came with my
Gaggia. Proper tamping is as important as using a good grinder
and I'd be lost without my proper metal tamper.

Here's a link to all the info on tamping you will most likely ever need
http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/faq.html


I picked up one that looks the exact same as Mr Magnolia's when I was
ordering beans from Ristretto - you'll be able to get some good
freshly roasted beans from them as well. They ship for a fixed delivery
charge for all orders which is quiet reasonable and delivery is usually
less than a week.

hshortt

Whoo-hoo well done on the purchase. That machine has a cult following, so we'll be hoping to see a small youtube clip when you have it all setup and working.

Another source for fresh beans is Bewleys - Grafton St. and Blackrock.

BTs have solid tampers too, 45 Euro with 10% off. But when you buy your grinder ask the assistant to give you some beans, they'll be only happy too.

Best of luck with your purchase.

Cheerio
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

Grab a tamper in BT, there's two kinds a rosewood one with a metal base and a full metal jobby. I have the rosewood one and its nice, even if it is ever so slightly too small for the portafilter basket.

Pods might be wife friendly, but they are not coffee friendly.

As said have a look at the sticky about bricks and morter sellers for good places to get beans.

rockbeer

Good decision, you won't be disappointed

The Silvia uses standard 58mm baskets so most tampers will be OK for you. It is definitely worth getting a good metal one, as heavy as you can find, it will really help you get consistency into your espresso making.

Once you have good equipment and ingredients, making consistently decent espresso is all about reconciling the variables of grind and tamp. If your tamping is inconsistent your shots will be too.

I've been using a Silvia for a good while now so if you have any questions post them here or pm me.

Mr Magnolia

Gran Hermano wrote:

Here's a link to all the info on tamping you will most likely ever need
http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/faq.html

Very interesting reading. Just finished it. I actually sent my tamper back to Scott from HappyDonkey as it was the incorrect size (my fault). He's changing it no problems though

banaco73

Again Great Info Re the Tampers

Had a good Read on the FAQ section of the pull man site and they seem to explain it very well thanks to Gran Hermano for that link.

Spending alot of money on a machine and using the plastic tamper is like getting a top notch suit and matching it with cheap shoes.

Looks like i will be investing in a good one i think that i fancy the

rosewood one with a metal base

Keith

banaco73

The Rancilio Silvia Has Landed Today @12.50 By UPS


42 Hours after ordering that is Good service

Had to get one of the neighbours to take it for me

Will get it up and running and keep you all informed


Keith

banaco73

Got Home and i am well impressed with the machine.

Was not impressed with the pod adaptor as i am a novice and I thought that it was just a adaptor for the portafiler but it is not as simple as that you have to change the group head as well and then change it back to the standard one.

I will be returning the Pod Adaptor for a refund.

Keith:D