Have the new book finished But need something explained (spoiler warning)

Susannahmia

I thoroughly enjoyed the deathly hallows but I just can’t get my head around one thing. Why exactly did the elder wand claim Harry as his rightful owner? Because he robbed Malfoys other wand??? This is wrecking my head!!!

The Bollox

that kinda bugged me too. Malfoy was MEANT to kill Albus, but Snape actually did it, so that was one distorted seeing glass, the other is: you need to KILL the previous owner, Harry, obviously, didn't kill Malfoy

watna

Because it originally belonged to Dumbledore and Malfoy disarms him on top of the tower in HBP. Then in the malfoy's house after they are kept prisoners Harry disarms Malfoy. Meaning he has defeated him. The wand passes along by defeating the previous owner.

Cathmandooo

Yeah I'm gonna have to read over that part too! Did Harry get the wand when they escaped the room of requirement? if he got it then then he won the wand off draco cos he saved it and saved draco after duelling. I think that's why!

I have a question also! JK Rowling said that someone old or middle aged discovers their magic near the end of the book! Did i miss that happening? any idea who she might be talking about??

watna

Harry doesn't get the wand he is just the rightful owner. Voldemort has the wand (stolen from Dumbledore's grave) and when he uses it to try and kill Harry it can't, because it recognises Harry as it's true owner and the wand can't kill it's rightful owner. The spell therefore backfires and that's how Voldemort dies.

friend and foe

you don't HAVE to kill the previous owner to claim it. you have to defeat them.

therefore when malfoy disarmed dumbledore, he defeated him, and the elder wand chose draco. snape then killed dumbledore, but dumbledore was no longer master of the elder wand.

when harry disarmed draco at malfoy manor, he defeated malfoy and the elder wand chose him. voldemort then killed snape believing that as snape had killed dumbledore, he was master of the elder wand but as dumbledore was no longer master of the elder wand, so snape never was, which is why voldemort never was...

The Bollox

Cathooo wrote:

I have a question also! JK Rowling said that someone old or middle aged discovers their magic near the end of the book! Did i miss that happening? any idea who she might be talking about??

maybe it was Trealawney magicing her crystal balls towards the enemy

robinph

You didn't need to kill the previous owner as Dumbledore beat Grindewald to get it in the first place and he then lived out his years in prison until Voldemort came and finished him off. Draco then dissarmed Dumbledore, but left the wand behind, then Harry dissarmed Draco at hi house when they escaped the dungeon. You didn't actually need to have the wand on you at the time inorder to loose control of it.

friend and foe

although wasn't there a whole part about how grindelwald never had it in the first place??

Cathmandooo

The Bollox wrote:

maybe it was Trealawney magicing her crystal balls towards the enemy

oh yeah cud be her alright! She hasnt exactly shown much magic in the past has she!

The Bollox

robinph wrote:

You didn't need to kill the previous owner as Dumbledore beat Grindewald to get it in the first place and he then lived out his years in prison until Voldemort came and finished him off. Draco then dissarmed Dumbledore, but left the wand behind, then Harry dissarmed Draco at hi house when they escaped the dungeon. You didn't actually need to have the wand on you at the time inorder to loose control of it.

oh... I thought Dumbledore did kill Grindewald. well that clears things up for me anyway

watna

friend and foe wrote:

although wasn't there a whole part about how grindelwald never had it in the first place??

I think Grindelwald was lying when he said he had never had it because Lord Voldemort said I can always tell or something. Plus, it was Grindelwald that stole it from Gregorovitch..... Harry sees it when Voldemort is meeting with Gregorovitch. He is the onw with the merry eyes and blond hair that jumped out of the window with it.

friend and foe

yeah i know he steals it, but was he ever the master? or do i remember him stunning gregorovitch before jumping out the window? perhaps if he stuns gregorovitch, he could have become the master, because he wouldn't have become the master just by stealing it...

watna

Yup, That's my impression of it anyway!

randomchild

friend and foe wrote:

yeah i know he steals it, but was he ever the master? or do i remember him stunning gregorovitch before jumping out the window? perhaps if he stuns gregorovitch, he could have become the master, because he wouldn't have become the master just by stealing it...

I think by stealing it, and thus outwitting gregorovitch, he defeated gregorovitch in a way.

friend and foe

randomchild wrote:

I think by stealing it, and thus outwitting gregorovitch, he defeated gregorovitch in a way.

hmm... it's an interesting one alright... i mean, according to the legend, it was originally stolen when the original master fell asleep drunk. it's never implied that the thief actually had to kill him to gain mastership so i suppose it's possible...

and voldemort, by taking it from dumbledore's grave, never actualy stole it from it's chosen master...

interesting indeed... i'm gonna go home and read over the parts relating to the elder wand again...

:|

friend and foe wrote:

hmm... it's an interesting one alright... i mean, according to the legend, it was originally stolen when the original master fell asleep drunk. it's never implied that the thief actually had to kill him to gain mastership so i suppose it's possible...
.

AFAIK the thief did kill the original master. I'm pretty sure but not 100%....

thehomeofDob

friend and foe wrote:

hmm... it's an interesting one alright... i mean, according to the legend, it was originally stolen when the original master fell asleep drunk. it's never implied that the thief actually had to kill him to gain mastership so i suppose it's possible...

and voldemort, by taking it from dumbledore's grave, never actualy stole it from it's chosen master...

interesting indeed... i'm gonna go home and read over the parts relating to the elder wand again...

He was drunk, and had his throat slit

thedrowner

yeah exactly, he had his throat slit

perhaps the person who discovered their magic was mrs. weasley, although she's always using magic she never really uses it against anyone? maybe jk rowling was talking about somebody coming out of their shell with the magic????? far fetched, i know!

Nevyn

You can defeat the owner of the wand and take it from them and claim it as spoiles of a duel with out killing the owner.

That is how he was able to use Malfoys wand.
Mr Ollivander explained this in the Shell cottage.

funky penguin

I was convinced Neville was the rightful owner, as he killed Nagini, who had killed Snape. I thought it would have been a great twist instead of the predictable outcome of Harry getting it. Still, he would have died only for it, so all's good etc.

Overheal

for that to have been true it also would have meant that the wand would have worked superbly for Voldy up to the time that Neville killed Nagini...and if you recall that only came about because Voldemorts jinxes were weakened and could not conjure the strength to repel the mob.

Crumble Froo

Overheal wrote:

for that to have been true it also would have meant that the wand would have worked superbly for Voldy up to the time that Neville killed Nagini...and if you recall that only came about because Voldemorts jinxes were weakened and could not conjure the strength to repel the mob.

he couldnt repel the mob cos harry had died for them, and given them that protection, i thought? the same that his mother had given him? no?

no, that doesnt make sense, cos voldemort was still able to put spells on harry, just not to touch him physically...

though at last we know why there was a slight hint of triumph on dumbledore's face when harry told him that voldemort had used his blood and could touch him... id always wondered at that...

The Bollox

narco wrote:

he couldnt repel the mob cos harry had died for them, and given them that protection, i thought? the same that his mother had given him? no?

no, that doesnt make sense, cos voldemort was still able to put spells on harry, just not to touch him physically...

though at last we know why there was a slight hint of triumph on dumbledore's face when harry told him that voldemort had used his blood and could touch him... id always wondered at that...

I wondered about this aswell, I think what happened was the spells started off as normal, but had no lasting, or usual effects. i.e. Harry was not harmed by the cruciatus curse when feigning being dead, but he was lifted in the air, and the croud didn't stay muted for long, no matter how many times Voldy put the charm on them

Hrududu

I wondered about this aswell, I think what happened was the spells started off as normal, but had no lasting, or usual effects. i.e. Harry was not harmed by the cruciatus curse when feigning being dead, but he was lifted in the air, and the croud didn't stay muted for long, no matter how many times Voldy put the charm on them

Yeah, I think with the cruciatus curse on Harry, the wand wouldnt do it right because it saw Harry as the rightful owner. Then later on when Voldemort's spell's arent going well its because Harry gave the people a similar type of protection that his mother had given him.

I think I have the wand stuff straight in my head. Grindlewald stole the wand from Gregorovich and became its master. Dumbledore defeated but did not kill Grindlewald and became the wand's master. Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the wand's master. Then Harry snatched Malfoy's other wand, therefore beating him. So even though neither Malfoy nor Harry had the elder wand, its allegiances switched to Harry at that point.

When Voldemort AK'd Harry in the woods I took it to mean that he killed the last part of his own soul within Harry. So the elder wand only carried out the charm on the horcrux, and left Harry alive. But then there was that thing where Harry's blood being in Voldemort's veins meant while Voldie was alive Harry couldnt die. So which was it? Did Harry survive the AK because the wand wouldnt kill him or because Lily's protection kept him tethered to live via Voldemort?

The Bollox

Harry didn't die because the Elder wand wasn't going to kill it's master, Harry lost his mothers protection when Voldy took Harry's blood (afaik anyway)