the M 50 Roma

thebaz · 22-07-2007 11:05pm #1

i went today to the M 50 roundabout , to see conditions that the Roma are living in and the whole experience was very chilling and harrowing , to be happening in 21st century Ireland.
I got permission , and made a small donation , but it really was harrowing, and the sense of danger of kids begging/playing around a dangerous roundabout , needs to be documented IMO, without getting into a political / social debate on photography forum.
As regards photography i prefer photo 1 , but maybe photo 2 highlights the madness of the whole thing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/871940447/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/871940415/

There a few more on
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/

gerky · 22-07-2007 11:54pm

Great shots first especially,watching the news the other night was thinking the conditions were like refugee camps.

Jesus Wept · 22-07-2007 11:59pm

byjaysais is that a man with a scarf on his head?

Tis no woman.

DadaKopf · 23-07-2007 12:06am

It's important to photograph the people, but I feel they lack context. Portraits with more description in the background about their environment and situation, or a broader array of photos in different locations, reflecting the whole context would have strengthened the photos.

Top marks on engaging them, indeed. Though, I often feel uneasy about photojournalism: in particular, reproducing photos without an adequate caption and permission from the subjects (though this second one is not always possible).

thebaz · 23-07-2007 12:13am

DadaKopf wrote:

It's important to photograph the people, but I feel they lack context. Portraits with more description in the background about their environment and situation, or a broader array of photos in different locations, reflecting the whole context would have strengthened the photos.

Top marks on engaging them, indeed. Though, I often feel uneasy about photojournalism: in particular, reproducing photos without an adequate caption and permission from the subjects (though this second one is not always possible).

i did get permission, but the whole scenario was crazy , the traffic was whizzing past (this is the M50) , kids running around , even getting my balance was dificult due to slippy surface (mud) , i can only say it was bedlam , and pure 3rd world in our capital .

Borderfox · 23-07-2007 6:32am

Nice shots, I would feel that if you had somehow shown the people and in the background or to the side a feeling on speed in the traffic you would get more of a feeling of danger (without putting yourself in the firing line). Fair play to you for doing it, I would have used my bigma from Ballymun!!

City-Exile · 23-07-2007 8:11am

Strange that you should put the pictures of Shamrock Rovers' stadium, in with your Roma pictures. I know Rovers are homeless, but Bohs are known as the Gypsies!

nilhg · 23-07-2007 8:25am

City-Exile wrote:

Strange that you should put the pictures of Shamrock Rovers' stadium, in with your Roma pictures. I know Rovers are homeless, but Bohs are known as the Gypsies!

Might be a safer place for them to camp though.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also might move the process of getting it finished along.

Sort of a new version of the old "if I dont get planning permision I'll turn it into a halting site" threat

Eirebear · 23-07-2007 8:53am

Some good stuff there Baz, i agree with the suggestions that it may have been a little bit more sympathetic towards the Roma's there if you had got something of a background or their surroundings.
But as a portrait the "look and the Stares" really works for me.

Again, well done on having both the Balls and the get up and go, to go and take these shots.

sineadw · 23-07-2007 10:23am

I only heard about this yesterday. You wouldn't believe the mortality and morbidity rate for Traveller children, Irish and otherwise. Oooo I could rant...

Fair play to you Barry! I would never have the balls (figurative speaking of course) to do that. How did they react when you asked them? I suppose if they've been in the media the last while that made it a bit easier?

And were you ON the M50??

thebaz · 23-07-2007 11:05am

Eirebear wrote:

Some good stuff there Baz, i agree with the suggestions that it may have been a little bit more sympathetic towards the Roma's there if you had got something of a background or their surroundings.
But as a portrait the "look and the Stares" really works for me.

I would like to have got the background in , but i can't emphasise the chaos of the scenario , cars liieraly whizzing past , children pleading at my feet , me tring to speak to the men with little English -- and trying to keep my balance on the mud , an eye on my illegally parked car , and another hand over my wallet , with no press backup :eek:

I witnessed something similar about 10 years ago in Morocco ... but happening today in Dublin ?

Eirebear · 23-07-2007 11:09am

thebaz wrote:

I would like to have got the background in , but i can't emphasise the chaos of the scenario , cars liieraly whizzing past , children pleading at my feet , me tring to speak to the men with little English -- and trying to keep my balance on the mud , an eye on my illegally parked car , and another hand over my wallet , with no press backup :eek:

I witnessed something similar about 10 years ago in Morocco ... but happening today in Dublin ?

No it must have been nuts, and you did get some interesting (for want of a better word) pictures out of it, i take my hat off to you.
how did they react to you asking to take pictures?
Are these the families who were deported yesterday?

eth0_ · 23-07-2007 11:10am

Three words: "Entirely" "Their" "Choice".

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2007 11:13am

eth0_ wrote:

Three words: "Entirely" "Their" "Choice".

Yes.

ThOnda · 23-07-2007 11:15am

Amen!

Eirebear · 23-07-2007 11:26am

Edited for obvious reasons, your right sinead. . but i still stand by the rest of the post.

Strange though isnt it......when Baz posted a photo (ive still not seen it) of a man in the street in Dublin he was asked by people to take it down as it may offend families etc, no ones bothered about the gypsies though eh?

sineadw · 23-07-2007 11:26am

I don't think the ethics are what we're discussing here - isn't it the photographs? Before it all spirals out of control...

5uspect · 23-07-2007 11:26am

Absolutely.

Well done for going down there and taking honest pictures.

nilhg · 23-07-2007 11:29am

eth0_ wrote:

Three words: "Entirely" "Their" "Choice".

Be that as it may, it dosen't say much for our public authorities that they were let camp there in the first place and then stay there as long as they have. Brings to mind the old saying about p***ups and brewerys:mad:

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2007 11:33am

sineadw wrote:

I don't think the ethics are what we're discussing here - isn't it the photographs? Before it all spirals out of control...

The original post is political in context, including what is actually written in it.

The post mentions the horrible conditions etc - so in my view it opens the post up to more then just critical examination of th photo's themselves, but to their contents and context as well.

sineadw · 23-07-2007 11:36am

Tauren wrote:

The original post is political in context, including what is actually written in it.

The post mentions the horrible conditions etc - so in my view it opens the post up to more then just critical examination of th photo's themselves, but to their contents and context as well.

Agreed, but only in the context of how the photographs work to either portray the intent of the poster or not surely? We could get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of the situation but in all honesty what's the point? This isn't the place.

magicbastarder · 23-07-2007 11:51am

Eirebear wrote:

Strange though isnt it......when Baz posted a photo (ive still not seen it) of a man in the street in Dublin he was asked by people to take it down as it may offend families etc, no ones bothered about the gypsies though eh?

from what i've read, he got permission to take these shots. there's no dilemma.

Eirebear · 23-07-2007 11:56am

magicbastarder wrote:

from what i've read, he got permission to take these shots. there's no dilemma.

Yep he did.
But theres still a basic portrayal of human beings here.
I'm sure Baz knew that when he posted those pictures someone was gonna chime in with how awful the gypsies are etc etc.
No one asked wether baz had gotten permission for the deleted photo before he was asked to remove it, by people who (i'm assuming here) had nothing to do with the subject of the picture.

Borderfox · 23-07-2007 12:11pm

I think if its in an editorial context then I am fine with it which it is.

thebaz · 23-07-2007 12:13pm

Tauren wrote:

The post mentions the horrible conditions etc - so in my view it opens the post up to more then just critical examination of th photo's themselves, but to their contents and context as well.

I did state on my post ,
"needs to be documented IMO, without getting into a political / social debate on photography forum."

and i stand by this , as this is not the right forum for a political debate , on the rights or not of the Roma.
Hopefully i can potray , that behind all the political debate, there are human beings here !

Just to re-iterate i did get permission .

mikemac · 23-07-2007 12:17pm

Good shots.

Got a shock seeing the kid in the jersey on the road. Looks very dangerous.

scargill · 23-07-2007 1:09pm

The-Rigger wrote:

byjaysais is that a man with a scarf on his head?

Tis no woman.

my first reaction was...."Billy Mitchell with a headscarf"

Fr Dougal · 24-07-2007 8:28am

The people on the M50 have been removed by garda for deportation

News:
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/10799239?view=Eircomnet

City-Exile · 24-07-2007 1:43pm

Once again, thebaz has recorded a significant event, in an ever changing Dublin.

raido9 · 24-07-2007 1:53pm

eth0_ wrote:

Three words: "Entirely" "Their" "Choice".

Three words: "Get" "A" "Job"

magicbastarder · 24-07-2007 2:23pm

"eh" "they" "can't".

anyway, i should know better than to get into that sort of debate here. i'm sure there's a thread about it in a more appropriate section on boards.

thebaz · 24-07-2007 2:42pm

magicbastarder wrote:

anyway, i should know better than to get into that sort of debate here. i'm sure there's a thread about it in a more appropriate section on boards.

agree , i think its best to ignore inapproriate comments or misinterpretations of the images .

blec · 25-07-2007 1:47pm

A bit of "spice" added to the original pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895868716/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895048841/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895048897/

Morlar · 25-07-2007 3:03pm

blec wrote:

A bit of "spice" added to the original pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895868716/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895048841/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10439103@N03/895048897/

I think they look good in a Tim burton/addams family kind of way - just out of curiosity are they in bucharest ?

the M 50 Roma

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