5 Channel amps anyone?

Karl Hungus

Saw a thread on another forum about the new Koch Supernova, a 5 Channel all tube amp:



Check out this one aswell:



As someone on that other forum has said "Five channels? Holy ****, tube amps are becoming like men's razors. Does it have an extra channel in the back for punch-ins?"

I wonder how long it's going to be untill tube amps have more channels than presets on a Pod? I mean, there's not even that many 4 channel tube amps on the market.

I'd like to see a 6 channel one.

NeMiSiS

Do you have a breakdown of what they all do ? Is it like Clean, Crunch OD1, OD2.. and uh I have no idea what else you would need..
The new Marshall JVM is a bit crazy like that too.. 4 channels, but you have 3 settings on each of those channels.. I must have a go of one, the reviews it's getting seem very good..

Tom

Voodu Child

So...five channels eh? Well, i can see how you'd use that: Crystal clean, twangy crunch/clean, rock rhythm, scooped metal rhythm, high-gain lead. Thats 5 completely different voices, and i can see how you'd use them in the real world. Being able to apply a completely different EQ setting and gain structure to your lead and rhythm channels is not a gimick, its 100% useful.

You could use EQ,boost and overdrive pedals to get five sounds out of a 2 channel amp, but a pedal, and a completely unique and separate channel circuit (with its own individual tone-stack) are worlds apart.

So, makes sense. Hate to see the price tag though

Karl Hungus

NeMiSiS wrote:

Do you have a breakdown of what they all do ? Is it like Clean, Crunch OD1, OD2.. and uh I have no idea what else you would need..
The new Marshall JVM is a bit crazy like that too.. 4 channels, but you have 3 settings on each of those channels.. I must have a go of one, the reviews it's getting seem very good..

Tom

No idea about the Koch amp, but you can check out all the details of the Rodenberg amp here.

*5 totally independend channels, each with a second switching option

*Sounds: Standard FLEXAMP 5

1) Clean Channel - funky/modern
2) Cruch / Hot Rod
3) Modern Lead + Gain
4) Creamy Lead + Gain
5) Ultra Lead + Gain

Tube changes would be a nightmare I think:

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

So...five channels eh? Well, i can see how you'd use that: Crystal clean, twangy crunch/clean, rock rhythm, scooped metal rhythm, high-gain lead. Thats 5 completely different voices, and i can see how you'd use them in the real world. Being able to apply a completely different EQ setting and gain structure to your lead and rhythm channels is not a gimick, its 100% useful.

You could use EQ,boost and overdrive pedals to get five sounds out of a 2 channel amp, but a pedal, and a completely unique and separate channel circuit (with its own individual tone-stack) are worlds apart.

So, makes sense. Hate to see the price tag though

I certainly agree with you. The options are only limited by how many sounds you personally would need. Even if you only need one rythm channel, the ability to setup different lead channels would be awesome. Get a nice screaming high gain lead, or a sweeter low gain lead, or maybe set the crunch for a nice bluesy lead.

Voodu Child

Holy moly that's a lot of preamp valves :eek:

Just goes to show each channel is a separate entity, which is what i was getting at above. There's a lot of faux 2-channel amps, where the signal is still shunted through the exact same circuit, with a gain boost and eq tweak.

So, like you said, a real multi-channel amp could have an old-fashioned Marshall esque lead channel, and also a cascading-gain boogie style. So while 5 might seem like overkill, i can see why some people would have the use for it.

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

Holy moly that's a lot of preamp valves :eek:

I know, that made me sit back in my chair and go "Wow!"

voodoo_child wrote:

Just goes to show each channel is a separate entity, which is what i was getting at above. There's a lot of faux 2-channel amps, where the signal is still shunted through the exact same circuit, with a gain boost and eq tweak.

So, like you said, a real multi-channel amp could have an old-fashioned Marshall esque lead channel, and also a cascading-gain boogie style. So while 5 might seem like overkill, i can see why some people would have the use for it.

Agreed. All you have to do is look at all the big multi-amp rigs out there to see that there is certainly a need for such an amp.

Neo#

I have a JVM and its great. Its great to have so many options. You can set up the footswitch how you like it. It has different reverbs on each channel and it has two master volumes so you can boost your solos on any channel.:)

Karl Hungus

Neo# wrote:

I have a JVM and its great. Its great to have so many options. You can set up the footswitch how you like it. It has different reverbs on each channel and it has two master volumes so you can boost your solos on any channel.:)

I've heard some good things about the JVM, which I was suprised about, seeing as I've known guys who absolutely spit on their more recent products. The consensus on the Mode 4 from what I've heard was that it should be dropped to the bottom of the ocean. But the JVM, and Kerry King signiature, I've been hearing good things about. Seems like they finally got their **** together, eh?

How does the JVM compare to the classic Marshalls?

Neo#

Ive only been able to test it at bedroom level yet. Its rediculously loud. I can barely put the volume at 1. Im going to get to unleash it properly on monday in a practice room. I had a marshall TSL before and its a lot better. Comparing it to classic marshalls id say its not quite the same or as good. It can do a great approxamation of a JCM800 or a plexi. I might think differently on monday however! I liked the tsl distortion but the clean channel wasnt great. I love th JVM clean though. Its lovely and warm. I love it with a bit of dirt. ummmmmm:)

NeMiSiS

I have a TSL, and thought it was OK.. but whipped out the stock valves.. and sweet Jesus it made a whole lot of difference.. I have Mesa Boogie preamp valves and.. I can not remember what the Poweramp are..

I will try a JVM though soon as I get a chance.. or maybe wait a little while til the price drops..

TK

Jack Vegas

Anyone else find it odd that the Kerry King signature is cheaper than a standard JCM800 on Thomann?

Voodu Child

Marshall are famous for using terrible valves. I can't understand it at all, I'd dread to think how many sales are lost when people playtest their amps and they sound terrible because of the stock valves.

It's true that most companies use average quality valves, so there'll always be an improvement to be had by upgrading, but the Marshall stock valves arent even close to average.

FWIW, there's nothing magical about Mesa Boogie valves either. They're very well above average quality (i'd describe them as good or very-good), but I can think of better things to put in a TSL.

NeMiSiS

Recomend me something nice then, I will be lashing in new ones round September/October.
Tom

Voodu Child

NeMiSiS wrote:

Recomend me something nice then, I will be lashing in new ones round September/October.
Tom

JJs do a great job in Boogies, and ENGLs afaik. I'd need to check what suits a TSL specifically - a TSL owners board would be the best job, because obviously a brand that works great in a boogie might not suit a Marshall (and also, I i don't have experience of JJ EL34s).

fortuneg

Christ, those things are crazy.
What ever happened to a good old MIDI switchable pre-amp/power-amp combination.
So many more channels can be had at a fraction of the price*

* I'm just assuming that since i've never heard of these two makes that they are new incredibly expensive "bootik" amp manufacturers.

Karl Hungus

fortuneg wrote:

Christ, those things are crazy.
What ever happened to a good old MIDI switchable pre-amp/power-amp combination.
So many more channels can be had at a fraction of the price*

* I'm just assuming that since i've never heard of these two makes that they are new incredibly expensive "bootik" amp manufacturers.

No idea about the pricing of the amps, but a serious rack setup could end up costing a hell of a lot of money.

fortuneg

Karl Hungus wrote:

No idea about the pricing of the amps, but a serious rack setup could end up costing a hell of a lot of money.

Not if you're looking for something that could do the equivelent of what those amps can do.
Sure if you're looking into eventide harmonizers of other complex effects equipment you could spend your life savings building one.

JMP-1: e450
OR
Triaxis: e1000? (it's been a while since i've checked these out)
VHT 2:50:2: e850

Now theres a pretty decent basic rack at a reasonable price, plus you can always add some other gear to if you ever feel that way inclined in the future.

Voodu Child

The days of rack setups are over it seems, except for the serious touring pro's. (but even the likes of Vai, who used to be famous for multi-fridge setups has simplfied lately)

The JMP-1 is out of production, with no replacement that i've heard of. Mesa don't have any plans to replace the 15(?) year old triaxis. Uh...what else is there? Most rack preamps now are just standard 2 or 3 channel preamps with midi channel switching only (i.e. you can only switch between channels, and not actually store 100s of EQ presets). So, you could be looking at more than one of them to get the versatility of a 5ch amp, and then you'd need midi signal routers etc...

Yeah, I dunno, i'd say you could be spending serious money

EDIT -

JMP-1: e450
OR
Triaxis: e1000? (it's been a while since i've checked these out)
VHT 2:50:2: e850

The JMP is a great unit, but it doesnt compare to pro gear, it's semi solid state...I wouldnt compare it to a high-end multi channel amp anyway. Triaxis IS a fantastic bit of kit, but you're looking at well over the e1000 you suggest (for a good one). And if you're comparing like-with-like, you should be looking at the new price of the gear you mentioned.

Karl Hungus

fortuneg wrote:

Not if you're looking for something that could do the equivelent of what those amps can do.
Sure if you're looking into eventide harmonizers of other complex effects equipment you could spend your life savings building one.

JMP-1: e450
OR
Triaxis: e1000? (it's been a while since i've checked these out)
VHT 2:50:2: e850

Now theres a pretty decent basic rack at a reasonable price, plus you can always add some other gear to if you ever feel that way inclined in the future.

Triaxis is €2599 on Thomann. Dunno about the VHT, but a matching Boogie 2:90 poweramp would be €1938. Then we're talking some kind of midi controller?

Ah sure, we don't even know how much the 2 amps are in the first place, so it's all speculative.

fortuneg

voodoo_child wrote:

The JMP-1 is out of production, with no replacement that i've heard of. Mesa don't have any plans to replace the 15(?) year old triaxis. Uh...what else is there?

Ever heard of eBay?

voodoo_child wrote:

Most rack preamps now are just standard 2 or 3 channel preamps with midi channel switching only (i.e. you can only switch between channels, and not actually store 100s of EQ presets). So, you could be looking at more than one of them to get the versatility of a 5ch amp, and then you'd need midi signal routers etc...

And thats is why i mentioned the two above, midi routers aren't that expensive either (eBay again)

voodoo_child wrote:

The JMP is a great unit, but it doesnt compare to pro gear

Since when are marshalls not "pro gear"?

Karl Hungus wrote:

Triaxis is €2599 on Thomann. Dunno about the VHT, but a matching Boogie 2:90 poweramp would be €1938. Then we're talking some kind of midi controller?

Just quoting prices I paid myself (JMP-1 & VHT), also by all accounts the VHT is a far superior poweramp to the mesa.

Just my 2c;)

Voodu Child

Of course i've heard of ebay. I've a room full of amps and most of them were gotten off ebay. My point (which you missed completely) is that the heyday of rack systems is over. Look at a list of ten or twenty excellent rack preamps, and 90% of them are out of production. That means there isnt as much demand for them as there was in the 80's and early 90s.

Midi routers are expensive, a GCX will set you back $300-400 easy before shipping and customs.

Marshalls havent been pro gear for well over a decade now. The JMP is a hybrid preamp, most of it's distortion comes from transistors. While its a fine mid-level pre, comparing it to a 3 or 4k multi-channel amp is silly. It'll absolutely hold it's own against similar priced gear (im not knocking it in the slightest in that regard), but you have to make realistic comparisons.

VHT are amazing amps for sure. But like Karl said, a 2:90 is a much better match for the triaxis.