Seeking old maps

mackerski

Hi,

This may not be an ideal fit for the group, but I know that there are a few map-enthusiasts on here. Feel free to move it to a better home.

I'm looking for old Ordnance Survey maps of Ireland (copyrighted pre 1957) to buy or borrow. Quality isn't important, just legibility, and I'm not keen on spending a fortune (hence the borrowing reference).

I want them because I've been contributing to the Open Street Map project. The government copyright that existed on OSI maps prior to 2002 expires in 50 years, so it's legal to use the data on these maps to build up the OSM database (things like street, town and physical feature names, peak co-ordinates, rivers and lake boundaries etc.)

Anybody who thinks that this is a good cause, please consider giving me sight of suitable maps. I'm most interested in town-plan-scale maps that will allow me, for instance, to complete the street naming for Dublin or other towns (one of the hardest bits to get right). Either that or get involved yourselves.

Thanks.

murphaph

A worthy cause. I've had a look through some old maps that my father had but they are all too modern, mostly 70's I'm afraid. Best of luck with it though.

mackerski

Yep, I've got lots of old 1/2 inch maps going back to the '60s, but nothing old enough. Thanks anyway.

Wishbone Ash

You could try the National Library or the Land Registry Office.

antoinolachtnai

Map library, Trinity College, Dublin. Should have everything.

Royal Irish Academy.

Bonar Law, the guy who used to run the neptune gallery on chatham row (don't know where he went to though).

Planning Offices and LA's.

I know I am missing some obvious source.

The other possible line of enquiry is that if the OSi don't make these available as publications, you are entitled to request them under FoI.

a.

ManAboutCouch

The OSI have their own Historic mapping archive at http://www.irishhistoricmaps.ie/historic/ but you have to pay to view the maps and they assert copyright over all maps on the site, so it would be of limited use to you.

In addition to TCD, as mentioned by Antoin above, the Department of Geography in UCD used to have a full set of 1/2" (1:126,720) maps in their Map Library. If I remember correctly they're mostly copyrighted in the 40's and 50's, so should be out of copyright. If they're still there you might be able to gain access.

Another potential source is the Geological Survey of Ireland who have 1:25,000 mapping covering the country - this is really the old 6" (1:10,560) that has been reduced down to 1:25,000 and had the national grid placed over it. It's quite useful, but the accuracy can be a little bit off. I'm not sure of the date of production for these maps, the copies I have to hand have 'Crown Copyright reserved' on them, which might indicate that they date from the early 1900's, but I don't think the National Grid is that old.

In all of these cases you're going to have the problem of getting them onto a computer (that's if you intend using them as backdrop tiles, for head's-up digitising or just for reference) I think that the 1/2" sheets are typically A2 in size, while the 1:25,000 are A1. You should note that copy/repro companies, such as Hacketts, who operate large format scanners will generally refuse to scan or copy OSI maps unless you have a copyright clearance certificate from OSI. And that's if the map holder will allow you to remove them from their library, which I would doubt.

Additionally, if you're going to use the 1/2" series as a scanned backdrop you should note that it uses a fairly obscure projection - the Bonne Projection - so you might have to do some post-processing in a proper GIS system to get it aligned with your OSM data. Drop me a PM if you need a hand with this as I might be able to help.

Victor

Pearse Street Libarary has a fiar sized collection, as does UCD.

mackerski

Some useful tips here. The path from paper to database is a bit tricky on most of them, as ManAboutCouch says. The projection problems on maps wouldn't be a problem for me initially, as I'm not (yet) at the stage of systematic mapping. A lot of my work is from landsat images, so OSI maps are great as a source of missing place, lake and river names.

The JOSM editor for OSM does support image backdrops, going so far as to support the download of them from a Web Map Service[1]. I understand that a lot of old OSGB maps have been uploaded (possibly precalibrated to defeat projection issues) to this for the edification of mappers prepared to trace the data. Clearly this would be brilliant, but first we need to get accurate scans of the bloody maps.

A laptop with 3G dongle would go a long way towards on-site data capture, but OSM is very much a hobby for me, rarely the kind of thing to which I can commit a day in the library.

Ho hum...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Map_Service