S3 Cliffhanger theory

The Final Five

Dunno if a theory of this sort has been posted here already, sorry if it's an old one...

Anyway, Starbuck would be the final cylon.

Keep in mind that the other Cylons don't like talking about the final five, so there's definetly something different about them. Theorising beyond what was said, and the reaction of the characters as they discovered themselves to be Cylons...it's a good bet that they're "good" cylons. Maybe they didn't want a war with humanity, maybe they even like humans and were banished because of it. Maybe when they were banished they made a new home for themselves on a place called earth. Starbuck was programmed to kill herself when she got in range of earth so that she'd download into a new body there and meet up with the fleet to bring them there.

It's important to keep in mind that the song that triggered the other final five cylons is a BOB DYLAN song, from a little planet called EARTH. Starbuck would have been there and in her twisted way chose the song as the trigger for her comrades.

Thats the beleiveable part. My other theory goes back to season 1. The line "everything that is happening has happened before and will happen again" has always seemed to have a bit of importance on the show.

What do I take from that? When they get to earth the crew are going to find out they are actually decended from "cylons" themselves. That on Earth, humanity (us) let technology spiral out of control, that it evolved into a biological form and destroyed humanity. Over eon's they continued to evolve into a normal organic race, history was forgotten, and they settled on kobol, and finally the twelve colonies, where they created their own cylons, only to let them evolve and have it go around in one big circle...

...or maybe I just think too much.

What do you think of all that motherfrakkers??

MarkHall

Not a Bad theory.

I just don't feel it in relation to the series.

The Final Five

In relation to the series? I'm sure if someone had said in the first season that Baltar would become president, have the fleet settle on a barren planet and surrender them all to the Cylons plenty of people wouldn't have felt it in relation to the series...

User45701

the only thing is the song the bob dylan song is not from earth and has no relation to any person/cylon/being that has ever lived on earth.

it was supposed to be a colonial music person who wrote it.
Ron put thing song in another one of his shows as well didnt he? as far as i heard he just likes the song and it has no meaning or realation to earth.

if your wrong about starbuck being the final cylon and the final five ressurect to earth the only other possibality is that clowd she died in was a wormhole to earth and if you re-watch the episode it looks aLLOT like a wormhole...

The Final Five

User45701 wrote:

the only thing is the song the bob dylan song is not from earth and has no relation to any person/cylon/being that has ever lived on earth.

it was supposed to be a colonial music person who wrote it.
Ron put thing song in another one of his shows as well didnt he? as far as i heard he just likes the song and it has no meaning or realation to earth.

if your wrong about starbuck being the final cylon and the final five ressurect to earth the only other possibality is that clowd she died in was a wormhole to earth and if you re-watch the episode it looks aLLOT like a wormhole...

I'm aware that they've used "Earth" songs in the show before, and even scores from movies such as Unforgiven...unlike the other occasions the Bob Dylan song was not just heard by us(the audience), but it was actually heard by the characters inside their heads to trigger their realisation. To put it another way...it was not just a part of the soundtrack and score, it was a major part of the script.

It is possible that the producers just used that song because they liked it, but it would be a hell of a coincidence if a bunch of people going crazy on the other side of the galaxy happened to all come up with the exact same song that matches an earth song lyric for lyric.

The cloud she died in was a wormhole? Because it sort of looked like one? Ooooohkay, that is possible. It is possible that its a wormhole. But you don't know it looked like one. There's no proof that wormholes exist and no human has ever set eyes on one. Wormholes, in theory, are two black holes connected, so if they did exist you wouldn't be able to see them.

That however is all beside the point, because, like you said, even if it was a wormhole Starbuck DIED in it. She blew up!

robby^5

Well we still dont know if she is real. After all, we got no confirmation that anyone other than Apollo saw the Dradis contact, she could be in his head. We could have another Baltar/Six scenario.

In the end, i'm sure they have an explanation for why she isnt dead, and has suddenly reappeared, in what looked to me like a brand new viper...

We'll see...but it was mentioned that the Final Five are related to the original cylons, cylons gods or something so it could well turn out that Starbuck is one and she was brough back somewhere, i dunno though

Personally, I think we'll have to wait it out.

User45701

The Final Five wrote:

I'm aware that they've used "Earth" songs in the show before, and even scores from movies such as Unforgiven...unlike the other occasions the Bob Dylan song was not just heard by us(the audience), but it was actually heard by the characters inside their heads to trigger their realisation. To put it another way...it was not just a part of the soundtrack and score, it was a major part of the script.

It is possible that the producers just used that song because they liked it, but it would be a hell of a coincidence if a bunch of people going crazy on the other side of the galaxy happened to all come up with the exact same song that matches an earth song lyric for lyric.

The cloud she died in was a wormhole? Because it sort of looked like one? Ooooohkay, that is possible. It is possible that its a wormhole. But you don't know it looked like one. There's no proof that wormholes exist and no human has ever set eyes on one. Wormholes, in theory, are two black holes connected, so if they did exist you wouldn't be able to see them.

That however is all beside the point, because, like you said, even if it was a wormhole Starbuck DIED in it. She blew up!

Emm no a wormhole is not too black holes connected. Its been therorised that maybe a black hole leeds to another black hole but that is wrong. i dont understand physics , in fact i never did it in school but i can tell you for a fact that you can never have a black hole - black hole wormhole.

If they suck in matter,light everything probbley even dark matter then it makes no sence how can two point that suck in everything connect to one another? black holes pull in matter they dont release it so one would spend eternity at the exact centre point between the two holes if they where wormholes.

Anyway i dont think it is a simple as she died and is the final 5. its possible but its far too easy and takes away allot of the mystery of the show, its too obvious so thats why i am saying wormhole.

If you rewatch the episode the storm/clowd/wormhole whatever it is.
It has a centre but there is a cicular motion going around the "eye" This rules out any known storm or black hole because a black hole would have a different visual effect, you could make out the epicentre. No storm occours that high so it rules out any kind of tornada or huricane which would have explained the "eye" or the rotating centre.

Me guessing wormhole after that is simply the next logical step in my train of thought.

Anyway i am WAY over thinking this i just decided to give you the logic behind why ithink wormhole

MisterAnarchy

I think this whole final five babble is seriously damaging the show.
The cylons were built by man and evolved yet now we are meant to believe that the cylons have been around for millennia .
Its getting very messy .

ginric99

Sorry if some of these ideas have already been disscussed,

as already mentioned there is definatly somthing different about the 4 cylon models at the end of episode 3, calling them good or bad I think is to simplistic because it is obvious that some of the so called bad cylon models are already showing signs of there houghts changing regarding humans.

A point I have not seen anyone mention yet (sorry if i havre missed it) is that there are now 2 cylon human babies, Tyrol's baby.

Anyway there are 2 options realy for the 4 cylons
1-there intentions are not in the the intrests of humanity, it is just that there purpose is not to destory the fleet, yet.

There are a couple of reasons I think this is incorrect. First When boomer was a cylon undercover she still showed a sense of self preservation. On caprica she left helo behind and went back to the fleet, while on BSG even when she didnt know she was a cylon she still did all she could to make sure she wasnt found out. While at the time it seemed a natural confusion Cylon programming would surley not be so good as to not have some sort of defence mehanism to prevent the sleeper being detected or moving out of position before activation.

In contrast 3 of the 4 models have repeatadly put themselves at risk of being either killed or losing there position in the fleet. If they where "bad" cylons then why did not one of them stay aboard the galactica at the end of season 2 to stop the ship escaping. Why did Tigh put himself at such risk, Why did Anders well do all he did. I dont for a minute think the decision to make these charachters cylons was a last minute one and yes it makes the change so much more emotional for the viewer but it seems a bit o risky on the part of the cylons that they put the 3 models through all they have.

2- They want to protect humanity from the other models. Again there is somthing not quite right about this. When the cylons talk about the 5 models they do so with a mixture of fear and reveration. When D'anna talks about meeting the 5 it is as if she has had a revelation or a religiious experiance. The cylons obviously dont know what the original 5 look like even, hwich makes me believe that they where they founders of the cylon race as a biological silicon organism. Number 5 may possibly be considered there god. The first true cylon, The scripture they talk about must have been written by one being, cylon or otherwise. Because it is so removed from the religion of the colonies. It is possible that there are only 5 models. One of each, maybe the original 5 cylons didnot want to be replicants and instead wanted to be able to be unique in both look and thought. It is possible that they realised it was not possible to create a complete race of individuals themselves and so instead travelled to the colonies and became "human" realising there shortcomings where humanities strengths. The biggest question is how did Tigh become Tigh. Yes the cylons can programme a personal history, but tigh was a hero in the first war, has an illustrious family background, he didnt just apear like boomer did, he is to old to have just appeared and reached that level in the cylon hirearchy. So this leads to an intresting idea. maybe Tigh was created by somone in the colonies, maybe when the cylons talk about being humanities children, maybe humanity secretly carried on the AI experiment creating biological silicon beings, who then escaped and went and joined the "toasters" leading them and evolving them. Just a thought, I hope tigh's history is cleared up in season 4, and it is explained how his background e.t.c has existed with no suggestion he is a cylon previously.

Carrying on this idea, it suggests that gaius may be this 1st cylon. His obsession with AI and the way he knows things about the cylons suggests a deep seated knowledge. Also his behaviour could be viewed as an effort to "Help and Protect" his children. If he is the only model of his type that would explain why he wont resurrect, and therefore why he wont alow himself to die, it may also explain his extreame need to survive, a subconcious knowledge that you are the first and only one of your species would create a need to survive.

Anouther option is that the original 5 believe in the gods of kobol, and the other cylons believe in this single god, this led to a religious split between the 2.

The biggest difference between the 4 and the other cylons found so far is that they seem to be able to live the whole panatha of human love and compassion. The other cylon models, while showing aspects, have not shown real love. (with the exception of boomer (8's)). the 6's demonstrate more obsession and lust, as does conoy, his feelings for starbuck are not love per say. This may explain how tyrol can have a child, which opens a massive can of beans and has to be mentioned at somepoint during season 4. I mean so much was made about the human cylon baby, well we now have 2, seems like it is not as hard as the cylons thought . It is intresting that anders, tyrol and tigh led the resistance against the cylons, this shows the biggest evidence that they want to protect humanity. Also Tyrols actoins in setting up th union demonstrate a subconcious deiser to keep the basic make up of the colonial society alive, which suggests that the 4 models are not only intrested in the physical survival of humanity, but also the politcal, social and economic. As a side note i mentioned about the survival instinct. Tyrol was ready to lay his life down for the union cause, it was only when cally was threatened that he capitulated. Also his cylon physiology would explain why he survived the decompression better then cally did.

Fianlly on this tyrol being a cylon thing. Temple of 5, he is a cylon he discovered it. Gaius couldnt see the vision, this is seen as evidence he isnt a cylon, but, tyrol didnt see any visions either.

OK finaly, I hope somone read this far lol, Is starbuck a cylon. My opinion is definatly no.

My biggest evidence for this is that it was not the cylon Conoy she was talking to in her visions before her "death" she says right at the end, your not conoy, and he says I never said I was. This shows some other being or force may be in contact with her.

There is some evidence that she might be a cylon of course, her similar feelings about the ancient gods that tyrol has a, disbelief in scripture followed by an event that leads to accepting her destiny. The fact that her history while vivid, is not backed up by anyone, no one actually met her mother e.t.c. However, I have to say there is only one model left, I really think it is going to turn out to be a bit more well, surprising then starbuck, she is a bit to obvious really isnt she for the big revelation .

anyway I have rambled incoherantly enough.

anycomments are welcome if anything I say is obviously disproved by some line I have missed somewhere feel free to let me know .

ginric99

Sorry if some of these ideas have already been disscussed,

as already mentioned there is definatly somthing different about the 4 cylon models at the end of episode 3, calling them good or bad I think is to simplistic because it is obvious that some of the so called bad cylon models are already showing signs of there houghts changing regarding humans.

A point I have not seen anyone mention yet (sorry if i havre missed it) is that there are now 2 cylon human babies, Tyrol's baby.

Anyway there are 2 options realy for the 4 cylons
1-there intentions are not in the the intrests of humanity, it is just that there purpose is not to destory the fleet, yet.

There are a couple of reasons I think this is incorrect. First When boomer was a cylon undercover she still showed a sense of self preservation. On caprica she left helo behind and went back to the fleet, while on BSG even when she didnt know she was a cylon she still did all she could to make sure she wasnt found out. While at the time it seemed a natural confusion Cylon programming would surley not be so good as to not have some sort of defence mehanism to prevent the sleeper being detected or moving out of position before activation.

In contrast 3 of the 4 models have repeatadly put themselves at risk of being either killed or losing there position in the fleet. If they where "bad" cylons then why did not one of them stay aboard the galactica at the end of season 2 to stop the ship escaping. Why did Tigh put himself at such risk, Why did Anders well do all he did. I dont for a minute think the decision to make these charachters cylons was a last minute one and yes it makes the change so much more emotional for the viewer but it seems a bit o risky on the part of the cylons that they put the 3 models through all they have.

2- They want to protect humanity from the other models. Again there is somthing not quite right about this. When the cylons talk about the 5 models they do so with a mixture of fear and reveration. When D'anna talks about meeting the 5 it is as if she has had a revelation or a religiious experiance. The cylons obviously dont know what the original 5 look like even, hwich makes me believe that they where they founders of the cylon race as a biological silicon organism. Number 5 may possibly be considered there god. The first true cylon, The scripture they talk about must have been written by one being, cylon or otherwise. Because it is so removed from the religion of the colonies. It is possible that there are only 5 models. One of each, maybe the original 5 cylons didnot want to be replicants and instead wanted to be able to be unique in both look and thought. It is possible that they realised it was not possible to create a complete race of individuals themselves and so instead travelled to the colonies and became "human" realising there shortcomings where humanities strengths. The biggest question is how did Tigh become Tigh. Yes the cylons can programme a personal history, but tigh was a hero in the first war, has an illustrious family background, he didnt just apear like boomer did, he is to old to have just appeared and reached that level in the cylon hirearchy. So this leads to an intresting idea. maybe Tigh was created by somone in the colonies, maybe when the cylons talk about being humanities children, maybe humanity secretly carried on the AI experiment creating biological silicon beings, who then escaped and went and joined the "toasters" leading them and evolving them. Just a thought, I hope tigh's history is cleared up in season 4, and it is explained how his background e.t.c has existed with no suggestion he is a cylon previously.

Carrying on this idea, it suggests that gaius may be this 1st cylon. His obsession with AI and the way he knows things about the cylons suggests a deep seated knowledge. Also his behaviour could be viewed as an effort to "Help and Protect" his children. If he is the only model of his type that would explain why he wont resurrect, and therefore why he wont alow himself to die, it may also explain his extreame need to survive, a subconcious knowledge that you are the first and only one of your species would create a need to survive.

Anouther option is that the original 5 believe in the gods of kobol, and the other cylons believe in this single god, this led to a religious split between the 2.

The biggest difference between the 4 and the other cylons found so far is that they seem to be able to live the whole panatha of human love and compassion. The other cylon models, while showing aspects, have not shown real love. (with the exception of boomer (8's)). the 6's demonstrate more obsession and lust, as does conoy, his feelings for starbuck are not love per say. This may explain how tyrol can have a child, which opens a massive can of beans and has to be mentioned at somepoint during season 4. I mean so much was made about the human cylon baby, well we now have 2, seems like it is not as hard as the cylons thought . It is intresting that anders, tyrol and tigh led the resistance against the cylons, this shows the biggest evidence that they want to protect humanity. Also Tyrols actoins in setting up th union demonstrate a subconcious deiser to keep the basic make up of the colonial society alive, which suggests that the 4 models are not only intrested in the physical survival of humanity, but also the politcal, social and economic. As a side note i mentioned about the survival instinct. Tyrol was ready to lay his life down for the union cause, it was only when cally was threatened that he capitulated. Also his cylon physiology would explain why he survived the decompression better then cally did.

Fianlly on this tyrol being a cylon thing. Temple of 5, he is a cylon he discovered it. Gaius couldnt see the vision, this is seen as evidence he isnt a cylon, but, tyrol didnt see any visions either.

OK finaly, I hope somone read this far lol, Is starbuck a cylon. My opinion is definatly no.

My biggest evidence for this is that it was not the cylon Conoy she was talking to in her visions before her "death" she says right at the end, your not conoy, and he says I never said I was. This shows some other being or force may be in contact with her.

There is some evidence that she might be a cylon of course, her similar feelings about the ancient gods that tyrol has a, disbelief in scripture followed by an event that leads to accepting her destiny. The fact that her history while vivid, is not backed up by anyone, no one actually met her mother e.t.c. However, I have to say there is only one model left, I really think it is going to turn out to be a bit more well, surprising then starbuck, she is a bit to obvious really isnt she for the big revelation .

anyway I have rambled incoherantly enough.

anycomments are welcome if anything I say is obviously disproved by some line I have missed somewhere feel free to let me know .

MisterAnarchy

Well from what the writers have been saying lately it seems that the final 5 are immortal Gods.

User45701

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Well from what the writers have been saying lately it seems that the final 5 are immortal Gods.

Try using some SPOILER TAGS!

ginric99: Good post. i dont know what will happen but i belive starbuvkls mother doe shave something to do with it. im sticking with starebuck is the first human/cylon hybrid and her mother is a cylon.

Also im not sure i dontknow is baltar is model 1 or not.

Mitch Connor

can you read much in to the past of the 4 cylons shown at the end of season 3, given the fact the writers said they didn't know who they would reveal as 4 of the final 5 even up to half way through season 3. It could quite easily be argued that non of their past behavior has no real bearing on what they are now, as it was (seemingly) never writen with it in mind.

User45701

they where in human mode, they thought they whrre human until
"a switch goes off.... just like that"

They where activated at the end of the last season thats what happened.
i just hope Ragnor anchorige has a explenation next season