Forgiveness

Victor

How does one forgive someone who is unrepentent and continuing in their behaviour?

MooseJam

you don't, you give them a kick up the arse

Splendour

Victor wrote:

How does one forgive someone who is unrepentent and continuing in their behaviour?[/QUOTE


Have been through this myself and yes, it's a difficult one. We have to remember though that we are all fallible and make mistakes too; possibly even hurting people without realising it.

For me, forgiveness is summed up in the words Jesus spoke on the cross, 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do.'

Doesn't take the pain away, but can offload bitterness...

Splendour

Just read you post again. End of week and am tired...

All of what I've said above I hold to, but if you are being mistreated in any way by another, this has to be confronted, if possible.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you let yourself be treated like a doormat. There's a difference between forgiveness and justice...

philologos

Very good question Victor (major kudos), it's a difficult question as people described but I think Splendour has bagged it with the words Christ spoke on the cross.

I'd like to bring attention to another piece if I may. This is regarding people who do not want to change their ways.

Matthew 10:11-15 wrote:

"When you come to a town or village, go in and look for someone who is willing to welcome you, and stay with him until you leave that place. When you go into a house, say 'Peace by with you'. If the people in that house welcome you, let your greeting of peace remain; but if they do not welcome you take back your greeting. And if some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet. I assure you on Judgement Day God will show more mercy to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah than to the people of that town.

Please inform me if I'm wrong, but I think this is Jesus saying. Try to help them, if they reject their advice you can only do what you can. If they have rejected your help. You should leave their judgement in God's hands unless they come back to you more willing to change and reform themselves. I'm no Bible theologian, so I'd like for others to comment on what they think of this quote.

PDN

As Splendour has already pointed out, forgiving someone doesn't mean leaving yourself in a situation to continue getting hurt. For example, a woman suffering domestic abuse may forgive her spouse, but she still needs to get out of the abusive relationship.

But forgiveness is vital, whether the other person is repentant or not. Refusing to forgive is more likely to damage you than it will the other person. Unforgiveness is like a cancer that eats away inside of you.

Asiaprod

PDN wrote:

But forgiveness is vital, whether the other person is repentant or not. Refusing to forgive is more likely to damage you than it will the other person. Unforgiveness is like a cancer that eats away inside of you.

Nice reply PDN, and Splendour's too, unforgiveness is a cancer. It will hurt you more in the long run. Turning the other cheek, for me that means having tried, you walk away. At the end of the day, you are ultimately responsible for yourself.

kelly1

Victor wrote:

How does one forgive someone who is unrepentent and continuing in their behaviour?

Victor, pray for the grace to deal with this and pray for the person who's troubling you.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times.

Jesus never said it would be easy!

God bless,
Noel.

neuro-praxis

Asiaprod wrote:

Turning the other cheek, for me that means having tried, you walk away.

When Jesus said to turn the other cheek, he was speaking specifically to people to whom the meaning was clear. Let me try to explain.

In the Jewish culture of the day, you used your right hand for greeting, touching, eating. You used your left hand only for wiping your arse - really.

And in that culture, when you wanted to demonstrate to somebody that they were below you, you would hit them across the face with your right hand, using the back of your hand. This was how you showed them your authority. This was how a master might strike a slave.

If a man was to strike an equal, he would punch him square in the face.

So Jesus is saying, if somebody hits you across your (left) cheek with the (back of their) right hand, you turn your cheek and offer him the other one (the right cheek). The implication here is that once you have turned your face the one who has struck you now has two choices.

(a) Dishonour himself by using his left hand to slap you again
(b) Punch your right cheek using his closed fist, and thus declaring you his equal

This teaching is Jesus saying - DON'T LET ANYONE WALK OVER YOU! He is urging His followers to peacefully protest whenever they face oppression. Good examples of that are the Danish response to the Nazi invasion and Ghandi's entire life. This instruction was given in the context of the other similarly interesting instructions to carry a man's bag two miles rather than just the one, and to the man who asks for your cloak, give him your knickers too, but maybe that's for another thread.

Victor to try to answer your question directly. Forgiveness is a very, very hard thing, especially when you are trying to offer it to somebody who wouldn't be the smallest bit interested in it. The reality is that forgiveness is painful, because it means absorbing the hurt they are causing you and taking it upon yourself. You do not need to be best friends with everybody, but to try to acknowledge the hurt they have caused you and decide to bear them no ill will takes great strength. It is not something I am able to do alone ) I personally need God's help for it.

I truly hope you can forgive whoever is hurting you. You are right to try to forgive them. Sometimes amazing things happen when you forgive somebody who does not deserve it. Good luck.

Victor

neuro-praxis wrote:

And in that culture, when you wanted to demonstrate to somebody that they were below you, you would hit them across the face with your right hand, using the back of your hand. This was how you showed them your authority. This was how a master might strike a slave.

If a man was to strike an equal, he would punch him square in the face.

So Jesus is saying, if somebody hits you across your (left) cheek with the (back of their) right hand, you turn your cheek and offer him the other one (the right cheek). The implication here is that once you have turned your face the one who has struck you now has two choices.

(a) Dishonour himself by using his left hand to slap you again
(b) Punch your right cheek using his closed fist, and thus declaring you his equal

Why couldn't he slap you with an open palm?

The way I have always heard this is to not lower yourself to the offender's level - do not retaliate. I would of course not allow someone to be systematicly abusive to me or others.

neuro-praxis

Of course there was nothing to stop him slapping you with an open palm. But Jesus was speaking specifically to a peer group who would have understood how one slapped an inferior in that culture.

The action of turning one's cheek was to demonstrate clearly to the offender that you considered yourself his equal.

Today to physically turn the other cheek has lost its meaning. Its meaning however remains utterly relevant if we understand from it that when oppressed, we peacefully protest.

I hope I have made this clear. It is easier in person when you can flap your arms about.

BENJAMIN61

jesus is cool

Asiaprod

neuro-praxis wrote:

I hope I have made this clear. It is easier in person when you can flap your arms about.

Indeed you have made it clear, and thanks for that explanation. Never heard it put that way before.

neuro-praxis

BENJAMIN61 wrote:

jesus is cool

Totally man. Far out.

Don't thank me Asiaprod - I learned it from Rob Bell.

PDN

neuro-praxis wrote:

Totally man. Far out.

Don't thank me Asiaprod - I learned it from Rob Bell.

Yeah, Rob is cool too!

Victor

neuro-praxis wrote:

I hope I have made this clear.

Oh you have, thank you.

PDN

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." (Mahatma Gandhi)