Pro Wrestling or Pro MMA-Which do you prefer

estebancambias

Ok not exactly the most innovative of topics but I would be interested to see which you people prefer. For me, it's pro wrestling. I have never been interested in MMA, I don't know why, it just does not appeal to me. With wrestling it just pulls me in, to me a wrestling match looks far better than anything MMA could produce. I also hate the way wannabe cool MMA fanboys bash pro wrestling. 'it's fake'. 'why do you like wrestling? it's gay''. Saying pro wrestling is fake is one of the biggest misconceptions anyone could make. Pro wrestler is a tougher lifestyle than mma assholes(sorry just venting my frustration)

gimmick

My favourite is pro wrestling, but I am getting into MMA more and more lately. That being said i still know precisely feck all about MMA, but am enjoying what I see on Bravo of UFC.

ShawnRaven

For me, MMA has been the Pro-Wrestling killer for the past two years. And i wasn't even that big an MMA fan in the past, but WWE have been so bad production wise that it's not even funny, and TNA whilst being good, isn't exactly great either.

MMA, UFC in particular has generated my interest in the last year, and as far as a live show is concerned, I was at UFC 72 in Belfast a couple of months back (thanks again Dre!) and it knocked spots off anything WWE has produced. Even the crowd was a lot more into it than any WWE show i've attended.

The work v shoot isn't even an issue as far as i'm concerned. I'll still love Vintage WWE (85-02) but anything after that bores me to tears.

VR!

MikeHoncho

Different beasts in my opinion. I like them both equally. I suppose I activley have a bigger interest in pro wrestling but wouldnt say I like it more. Certainly not at the moment.

The Sparrow

MMA all the way for me. Its crazy to say this, but they do a better job with storylines and real angles that people can relate to than the WWE.

In fact the only reason that I really watch WWE mostly these days is that where I read about MMA or listen to podcasts about it they also talk about wrestling and i want to be in the loop about it. I was at UFC 72 in Belfast too and it blew away any wrestling show I have been to which includes a WWE PPV and a Smackdown taping on the 4th of July.

estebancambias

Imagine being at WM 17!!!!!! I say that event drastically changed people's lifes.

ShawnRaven

For me, UFC whats needed and what isn't needed as far as presentation and production is concerned. They focus on what is required and what is important, rather than what looks good, Case in point against WWE, Wrestlemania 20. I watched this for the first time in ages. And the ridiculous size of the stage was stupid considering it was MSG. Now i know MSG is where it all started, but it's not the largest of Mania arenas. But it didn't stop them from doing a monster stage, which for all intents and purposes, was only really noticed for the opener and maybe Kane's entrance. Meanwhile match wise it was pretty dire, womens haircut match? Four way tag matches for each brands tag title (and Jindrack and Cade getting their Mania payoff cos there was nobody else to stick in there!)?

UFC on the other hand, don't overdo it for entrances, they have a nice array of screens so even if you don't get front row, you can still get a good view from a screen, and they have some good stage lighting and thats it. That's all thats needed!

Maybe WWE production need to go back and check out their archives from 85-97. Back to the drawing board, so to speak? Even if it means killing off some PPVs. 2 PPV's a month on certain months is not a good idea and December to Dismember was a classic example of this. Especially when wrestling fans will already have Armageddon to get, and possible a TNA PPV (and a good chance of an ROH PPV now that they're getting in on it).

VR!

ShawnRaven

estebancambias wrote:

Imagine being at WM 17!!!!!! I say that event drastically changed people's lifes.

The only exception to the rule though. And there is bugger all chance of there ever being a Mania like it again.

VR!

Fozzy

I suppose when I first really got into wrestling it was around late 1997 and I got an interest in UFC around 99. I really got into MMA in general about 4 years ago, before the big MMA boom happened. I used to record the UFC show on Sky Sports on Thursday night and watch it before Raw on Friday, good times

I'm more a wrestling fan than an MMA fan though. I watch most of the big MMA shows and make an effort to check out any good fights from other events, but with wrestling I'll watch anything and everything

I do think there's a lot to learn from looking at MMA from a pro-wrestling perspective. Perfect example would be Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock from last year. Die-hard MMA fans complained because Shamrock's past it and Ortiz has been passed out by much better fighters. They said nobody wants to see these two wasters go at it. But their ppv fight drew huge numbers and they got almost six million people watching their tv fight. That was all down to marketing the feud like a wrestling feud. The guys didn't like each other, there was the storyline of them being coaches on TUF, they cut promos on each other. They talked the people into the building, just like a good wrestling feud should

Double C

I was a WWE fan from 95 to around 2002, then lost interest. Then discovered ROH and that got me back into pro wrestling as a whole, but tbh I'm getting bored of it again. Maybe this is stemming from the fallout of the Benoit incident. My interest in TNA is disappearing by the day and WWE is in a shocking state right now too. ROH is still doing great in my eyes but I get 2 shows every month or so, which I'd normally watch asap, so I think MMA might just fill the void that's being left by pro wrestling.

Like gimmick said, I love watching MMA on Bravo, but I don't know **** about it, so I think it's about time I got into it more, I think it's bound to be the way ahead.

Vince135792003

Right now, I'd have more interest in MMA live but I guess if I was bored I'd always go to a wrestling dvd.

For example, Summerslam is on next month. I couldn't careless but UFC 75 is on next month too and I'm literally counting the days for Couture and Gonzaga.

The other thing that I like about MMA is thats its relatively new to me as I've only been watching for about 6 years. I enjoy learning more about it and the fighters themselves. And Like Wooh says, it does a better job at getting you involved with fighters personalities and feuds than WWE has in a long, long time.

I'd also agree on what Fozzy says about looking at MMA from a wrestling perspective. MMA today is like wrestling in the 80's and earlier in that alot of fans are quite innocent in that they'll really buy feuds in a way that alot of pro-wrestling fans can't today.

Just on production, I think its one area that UFC could work on a little bit in my opinion. Watching some of the old Pride shows production blows me away each time I see them, while at the same time it doesn't take away from the matches itself, it justs gives it an added sense of occasion to the event.

I'm not saying UFC should go totally down the Pride route as it would cost a fortune. But every now and again, a different set up would be good in my opinion.

The Sparrow

estebancambias wrote:

Imagine being at WM 17!!!!!! I say that event drastically changed people's lifes.

I`m not sure how any wrestling (or MMA for that matter) event could drastically change your life! Unless on the very slim chance that it was something like Foley seeing Jimmy Snuka dive off the cage and deciding to become a wrestler. But that is very rare... It would have to be something pretty spectacular to drastically change my life. WM 17 was awesome, but the WWE are a long, long way away from producing anything like that again.

Vince135792003 wrote:

I'm not saying UFC should go totally down the Pride route as it would cost a fortune. But every now and again, a different set up would be good in my opinion.

They should definitely hire that female ring announcer that Pride had! She was classic... But in general I think that the over the top presentation works in Japan but in the USA it would probably devalue the product in many fans eyes and make it look too much like pro-wrestling.

Mossy Monk

MMA comes out on top for me. I sometimes get excited by upcoming MMA events, can't say the same about Pro Wrestling.

woooo232 wrote:

They should definitely hire that female ring announcer that Pride had!

Good God no.

rossie1977

Pro-wrestling and MMA are completely different. its like comparing apples to oranges.

Now if the question stated Pro MMA or pro boxing-which do you prefer? it would make more sense!!

MMA all the way in that case.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote:

But in general I think that the over the top presentation works in Japan but in the USA it would probably devalue the product in many fans eyes and make it look too much like pro-wrestling.

Possibly but little things like the parade of fighters, the woman with the voice and ref cam could be incorporated I think. I see your point though especially with their attempt to establish as a mainstream sport.

Again though, every now and again to mix it up for big events would be cool I think.

Fozzy

rossie1977 wrote:

Pro-wrestling and MMA are completely different. its like comparing apples to oranges.

I disagree. The only fundamental difference is that wrestling is a work and MMA is a shoot. The UFC is WWE's only real competition in ppvs, it's the same demographic that both companies are mainly marketing to. If you can just imagine finding out about MMA and wrestling for the first time, you really wouldn't notice a huge difference. Wrestling goes over-the-top in building feuds sometimes, MMA keeps it more real and personal. Different styles in the ring, but the best wrestling and the best MMA matches both tell some sort of compelling story during the action

krudler

i do watch mma but find some of the fights a bit dull,the constant ground and pound stuff is annoying and boring as hell to watch, unless theyve stopped doing that now i havent watched any ufc in about a while , not that wrestling cant be boring,of course it is sometimes but wrestling is a show not a real contest, i know if i paid a few hundred quid to watch 2 guys spend 5 minutes lying down in a cage trying to arm bar each other id be pissed

ShawnRaven

krudler wrote:

i know if i paid a few hundred quid to watch 2 guys spend 5 minutes lying down in a cage trying to arm bar each other id be pissed

Sounds like a Randy Orton main event to me!
VR!

krudler

touche! ah yes randy "chinlock" orton, hes a talented guy and i love the rko when its done properly but man he needs to stop with the restholds

Fozzy

I suppose the ground fighting can be boring to most people, but I find it so much more exciting than two lads standing and striking. Having trained in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for a good while I suppose I might just understand the technical side of it more than I do with the striking, but in general I find the fighting on the ground to have so much action than fights with two lads standing the whole time

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

I suppose the ground fighting can be boring to most people, but I find it so much more exciting than two lads standing and striking. Having trained in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for a good while I suppose I might just understand the technical side of it more than I do with the striking, but in general I find the fighting on the ground to have so much action than fights with two lads standing the whole time

Well normally I would agree but its hard to after watching all five rounds of the borefest that was Sean Sherk v Hermes Franca at the last UFC. Basically Sherk lying on top of Franca for five long, long rounds. I heard an interview with Bas Rutten the other day and he was advocating that the scoring of MMA should be changed so that if a guy took someone down but didn`t do anything other than keeping them both down, he would actually lose points. I think its something that could be looked at because wrestlers like Sherk sometimes just take guys down stay there and get the decision when in fact they are not really going for ground and pound or a submission.

And if you were a casual fan or a new one and you saw a fight like that it really could prejudice you against the whole ground game which would be a shame.

rossie1977

Fozzy wrote:

I disagree. The only fundamental difference is that wrestling is a work and MMA is a shoot. The UFC is WWE's only real competition in ppvs, it's the same demographic that both companies are mainly marketing to. If you can just imagine finding out about MMA and wrestling for the first time, you really wouldn't notice a huge difference. Wrestling goes over-the-top in building feuds sometimes, MMA keeps it more real and personal. Different styles in the ring, but the best wrestling and the best MMA matches both tell some sort of compelling story during the action

Kevin Dunn and Vince McMahon don't see UFC as their competitors because they have clearly bracketed themselves in the "entertainment" category.

True, boxing and other forms of pro-fighting have borrowed somewhat from the razzmatazz of pro-wrestling but thats really where the similarities end imo.

If the UFC and WWE were real competitors i believe you would see tit-for-tat exchanges between the two and the WWE signing up UFC fighters etc, but thats not happening.

In addition a huge section of the current WWE market segment are women and children; this segment has little or no interest in UFC or other forms of MMA, at least not in its present form.

estebancambias

Well actually WWE was in the process of having an agreement with Pride last year. WWE calls itself entertainment but not all wrestling promotions do.

WWE's fan base is between 18 and 36!!!!!

The Sparrow

rossie1977 wrote:

Kevin Dunn and Vince McMahon don't see UFC as their competitors because they have clearly bracketed themselves in the "entertainment" category.

True, boxing and other forms of pro-fighting have borrowed somewhat from the razzmatazz of pro-wrestling but thats really where the similarities end imo.

If the UFC and WWE were real competitors i believe you would see tit-for-tat exchanges between the two and the WWE signing up UFC fighters etc, but thats not happening.

In addition a huge section of the current WWE market segment are women and children; this segment has little or no interest in UFC or other forms of MMA, at least not in its present form.

Actually I think you might be wrong here... When UFC really took off in the States, it was because of the success of the first season of The Ultimate Fighter show on Spike TV which was aired directly after Monday Night Raw when it was also on that channel. It was that shows ability to attract viewers from RAW and keep them that propelled UFC to where it is now.

Also your point about the lack of WWE signing up UFC fighters is a bit redundant imho too... Just because the two of them are similar and attract the a large amount of the same fans does not mean that most UFC fighters could make it in WWE or vice versa. Thats like saying that rugby isnt a real competitor for football because you don`t see Man Utd signing rugby players.

Vince or Kevin Dunn would never publicly say that they are in competition with UFC just like Dana White would never say they were in competition with pro-wrestling. But the PPV buyers of UFC are coming for somewhere and it is not traditional boxing fans who often dislike MMA. It is telling that as UFC PPV figures are rising, those for WWE are falling.

rossie1977

All pro-wrestling IS pure entertainment though; nothing more, nothing less and has been since the carnie days of the 1930s. No matter how the various feds paint themselves there is no getting away from the fact.

IMO comparing pro-wrestling to pro-MMA is a little bit like comparing a movie about basketball say "white men can't jump" to a real NBA game. One is all razzamatazz the other has some razzamatazz (ok the NBA has alot) but underneath all the goings on a serious game is actually taking place.

I have been to every WWE event in Dublin since they returned in 2003-2004. Young kids dominate the WWE fan-base demographic here in Ireland. During the 1980s it was the same in the USA, i expect that over the next few years the WWE fans will get younger and younger and storylines/matches will be written especially for this section of the market :mad:

rossie1977

woooo232 wrote:

Actually I think you might be wrong here... When UFC really took off in the States, it was because of the success of the first season of The Ultimate Fighter show on Spike TV which was aired directly after Monday Night Raw when it was also on that channel. It was that shows ability to attract viewers from RAW and keep them that propelled UFC to where it is now.

Also your point about the lack of WWE signing up UFC fighters is a bit redundant imho too... Just because the two of them are similar and attract the a large amount of the same fans does not mean that most UFC fighters could make it in WWE or vice versa. Thats like saying that rugby isnt a real competitor for football because you don`t see Man Utd signing rugby players.

Vince or Kevin Dunn would never publicly say that they are in competition with UFC just like Dana White would never say they were in competition with pro-wrestling. But the PPV buyers of UFC are coming for somewhere and it is not traditional boxing fans who often dislike MMA. It is telling that as UFC PPV figures are rising, those for WWE are falling.

You could honestly say EVERYTHING on tv and pay-per-view are competitors of the WWE so. Raw goes head to head with american football in the states on certain Monday nights and its viewing figures are affected depending on the game.

Just because UFC pay-per-view buy rates are rising doesnt mean they have a direct correlation with WWE pay-per-view buy rates. WWE pay-per-views rates have always been hard to call even as far back as 1986-87. They tend to rise and fall for many reasons. The main reason at the moment is the amount of WWE programming on tv in the states. People are not going to pay another $50 for 14 or so pay-per-views (10 of those probably sub-standard) a year when they can see the same thing on tv for free.

nacho libre

I look forward to MMA events i can't say the same thing for Wrestling pay per views anymore.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote:

Actually I think you might be wrong here... When UFC really took off in the States, it was because of the success of the first season of The Ultimate Fighter show on Spike TV which was aired directly after Monday Night Raw when it was also on that channel. It was that shows ability to attract viewers from RAW and keep them that propelled UFC to where it is now.

Also your point about the lack of WWE signing up UFC fighters is a bit redundant imho too... Just because the two of them are similar and attract the a large amount of the same fans does not mean that most UFC fighters could make it in WWE or vice versa. Thats like saying that rugby isnt a real competitor for football because you don`t see Man Utd signing rugby players.

Vince or Kevin Dunn would never publicly say that they are in competition with UFC just like Dana White would never say they were in competition with pro-wrestling. But the PPV buyers of UFC are coming for somewhere and it is not traditional boxing fans who often dislike MMA. It is telling that as UFC PPV figures are rising, those for WWE are falling.

Excellent points.

The Sparrow

rossie1977 wrote:

You could honestly say EVERYTHING on tv and pay-per-view are competitors of the WWE so. Raw goes head to head with american football in the states on certain Monday nights and its viewing figures are affected depending on the game.

Just because UFC pay-per-view buy rates are rising doesnt mean they have a direct correlation with WWE pay-per-view buy rates. WWE pay-per-views rates have always been hard to call even as far back as 1986-87. They tend to rise and fall for many reasons. The main reason at the moment is the amount of WWE programming on tv in the states. People are not going to pay another $50 for 14 or so pay-per-views (10 of those probably sub-standard) a year when they can see the same thing on tv for free.

Well what we do know is that in 2005 it was wrestling fans that propelled UFC to the success that it is enjoying now. We know that because the Nielsen television ratings tell us that it was predominantly wrestling fans that tuned into The Ultimate Fighter because it was on after RAW.

That fact alone seems to suggest that there is a big crossover between the sports. And I don`t think it is too much of a jump from that point to make the assumption that WWE's PPV buys have been affected by the rise of UFC and MMA.

rossie1977

here are the WWE pay-per-view buy rates http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htm

Buy rates for Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, summerslam, survivor series were all higher in 2007/06 than in 2003 and this years/last years figures are comparable to those going right back as far as 1991. Figures for the other pay-per-views have remained steady over the years (although i cannot understand how anyone would want to pay for sometime like Unforgiven or Judgement Day especially when it was a single brand pay-per-view).

Since WCW's demise in 2001 people have wondered when WWEs next big rivals would emerge, many now think UFC to be that competitor (obviously i don't see it this way).

Interesting that you think football and rugby are competitors, i see Manchester Uniteds competitors (as far as gaining new fans worldwide) being Liverpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc not Bath, Munster or whoever else but lets agree to disagree on these points.

Vince135792003

rossie1977 wrote:

here are the WWE pay-per-view buy rates http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htm

Buy rates for Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, summerslam, survivor series were all higher in 2007/06 than in 2003 and this years/last years figures are comparable to those going right back as far as 1991. Figures for the other pay-per-views have remained steady over the years (although i cannot understand how anyone would want to pay for sometime like Unforgiven or Judgement Day especially when it was a single brand pay-per-view).
.

Bare in mind international buys have come to the fore over the last 2 years. In terms of domestic buys, they are way down in most cases.

Generally today a buy rate can be broken into 2/3 domestic and 1/3 international buys.

rossie1977

those are all domestic pay-per-view buy rates as far as I know of, unless the likes of backlash etc are now drawing just 0.35 rates in the states without the aid of international buyers.

The WWE domestic success in 2004/2005 (or lack thereof) had little to do with the success of UFC on Spike TV. UFC hype up their product fantasically well, they produce good quality programming and thats why there are successful.

WWE's problems started well before UFCs appearance on Spike. The numbers began falling in 2001 (well before UFC became huge) http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2005/08/16/wwes-domestic-difficulties.aspx

Many like to attribute WWE failings on UFCs success when in reality WWE's failings had more to do with booking champions in roles that didn't draw, crap storylines, awful characters.

Vince135792003

rossie1977 wrote:

those are all domestic pay-per-view buy rates as far as I know of, unless the likes of backlash etc are now drawing just 0.35 rates in .

Yep, I believe they are total buy rates not just domestic. They have drawn some really bad domestic buy rates in the last 2 years. Backlash this year immediately springs to mind as well as December to Dismember in 2006. E-mail Meltzer and you can get a back issue from late last year where he breaks their numbers down.

Certainly WWE has had problems well before UFC came along, yet still making 10 million dollars each quarter it must said. In terms of domestic buys though, its far worse than what it was 5 years ago.

Its an obvious thing to see though. You have UFC who have really become a huge player in the ppv market over quite a short period of time. That will and has effected WWE domestically in terms of ppv revenue to a degree. Now is the only factor? Of course not but its relevant.

ShawnRaven

estebancambias wrote:

WWE's fan base is between 8 and 36!!!!!

I fixed that for ya, given the amount of Cena's chain gang kiddies out there.
VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

I much prefer pro wrestling. Don't get the fascination with MMA.

I also think the fact that Dana White is desperate to land guys who the WWE have long since moved on from - Lesnar and Angle - tells you all you need to know about where pro wrestling and MMA stack up.

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I also think the fact that Dana White is desperate to land guys who the WWE have long since moved on from - Lesnar and Angle - tells you all you need to know about where pro wrestling and MMA stack up.

I wouldn't say Dana's desperate to sign Angle. It was him who called off the negotitations with Kurt when he believed that Kurt was "full of ****" about his intentions to get into MMA

As for Lesnar, he looks to be a very skilled MMAist and there's a lot of money to be made off him because of his past in wrestling. It was more a case of him moving on from WWE than the other way around though. I just don't think those two really tell you anything about pro-wrestling and MMA

Dragan

I love MMA because it instills in me the same excitment that Wrestling used to when i was a kid.

It's really that simple....the day i found MMA was the day that it really drove home the point that Wrestling is all fake....it kind of killed it for me. When i think back to my first ever MMA fight that i saw, almost 9 years ago, man...that was a thrill.

PeakOutput

op you must be stone cold crazy ffs.............the two are uncomparable imo.

wwe / pro wrestling is 100% pure entertainment weather the rest of the wrestling world likes it or not. It is NOT a sport of any sort. the wrestlers are fit people and do throw themselves around the ring and get battered but it is NOT real fighting. wrestling or wrestling pay per view is more like watching a film/tv drama than a sport imo.

ufc IS a sport. just because alot of the ufc fighters do not have huge muscles like a wrestler does NOT mean their lifestyle is any easier........seriously........ that is a stupid statement. the ufc has its flaws like any sport as every show will not be entertaining as some people like striking and some like ground work and the nature of the beast is that not all fights will have both these factors. these less entertaining match ups are more likely to occur in ufc than wwe(if at all possible in wwe) because there is no scripting in the match ups.

I doubt the ufc cares very much about the wwe and it sure as hell does not care about any of the other organisations.

I dont like wrestling but it has its place in the world as long as its fans dont start fooling themselves. im not a ufc fanboy either you could of said any sport in place of the ufc and you would still be 100% wrong in your comparison.

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I also think the fact that Dana White is desperate to land guys who the WWE have long since moved on from - Lesnar and Angle - tells you all you need to know about where pro wrestling and MMA stack up.

UFC have got virtually every ppv till the end of the year prepared for in terms of main events. There's no desperation whatsoever but if you see 2 guys that could make you alot of money, you go for them.

Also, its been reported that Spike is offering UFC a 100 million dollar tv deal that will likely be annually be more than what WWE is making on USA network.

Now, I'm not saying it will be always rosy in the garden for UFC or that I agree with everything they do (they do silly things too) but if I could be Dana White or Vince McMahon or indeed anybody in a position of power in wrestling right now, I think I'd like to be Dana.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I much prefer pro wrestling. Don't get the fascination with MMA.

I also think the fact that Dana White is desperate to land guys who the WWE have long since moved on from - Lesnar and Angle - tells you all you need to know about where pro wrestling and MMA stack up.

He's far from desperate. As Fozzy already pointed out, he told Angle to go f*ck himself. And whereas he may be keen to sign Lesnar, so are most MMA promoters, there's a difference between eagar and desperate. You point of them moving on long since from is a little moot as Angle has far from moved on, he's still in TNA, and Lesnar is actually the desperate one, he tried American football and they told him he was useless, and he's bombed in Japan. MMA is pretty much Lesnar's last chance saloon unless he can kiss Vince's ass and re-sign with WWE.

VR!