Our defense budget will be over €1Bn - what could you get for that ?

Capt'n Midnight

Our defense budget will be over €1Bn - what could you get for that ?

You could get half a B2 ...

darkman2

Its a miniscule amount. Consider aswell that that is spread over the Army, Air Corps and Navy.........there is just no will in Ireland to take responsiblility for anything even defence against drug importation is non existent never mind threats to the state which DO exist. The Gardai and Army intelligence know very well there are subversives in this country. Why have a 'defence force' that has no dignity and commands little or no respect? TBH we would be best served disbanding the whole lot and just asking the Brits to look after us - the Irish are simply not up to it and its as plain as day. The Army and Navy have been calling for years for far more investment and it just falls on deaf airs. So much are they disheartened that in 1999 a Navy command officer went on 'Prime Time' and effectively told the country that we were defenceless and we have the most pathetic excuse for a defence force in Europe. He was clearly embarrased and ashamed at the ineptitude and incredibly naieve attitudes that persist with Irish people and the Irish government. They are living in some sort of a dream world where they dont have the capacity or forsight to see that if anything happens in Europe or internally here we are in very serious trouble. Defense would be impossible even as a deterrant - There is NO deterrant in this country at all. Not even two air corps aircraft that could police the airspace and that would stop overnight military planes THAT ARE IN OUR AIRSPACE day in day out whether British, American or whatever without permission. Nobody is under any illusion that Irish airspace cannot be violated every hour of the day and there is nothing that can be done about it. Add to that an army that cannot even march in step. Not enough equippment to equip a battalion. It goes on and on. Its a complete joke. It also embarrases us hugely in Europe when these idiots get up and preach Irish 'neutrality'.....who are they kidding?

Manic Moran

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Our defense budget will be over €1Bn - what could you get for that ?

You could get half a B2 ...

2/3 of a B2: The Euro is doing rather well against the dollar, as I'm finding out to my cost. (Flying to Dublin next week)

NTM

testicle

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Our defense budget will be over €1Bn - what could you get for that ?

You could get half a B2 ...

1. It's Defence.
2. You might have a lot of disgruntled people looking to be paid if you buy a B2.

trentf

the problem with ireland and the lack of interest in the military is the fact that the country is surrounded by 2 of the biggest militaries in the world in great britain and the usa both being democracies and friendly towards ireland.

So irish people say why should we bother with a military sure someone else will do it for us?. They are almost afraid to stand up for themselves to defend their own country and have some pride in their military. The token guesture budget of 1 billion is laughable for any serious defence force in the world. What has ireland ever gone through to make it so anti military? japan got nuked ffs and the japanese self defence forces are some of the most modern in the world. Perhaps its this lack of any external threat ever being posed to ireland that has made the people so relaxed and lazy in their attitude. But then again policing isn't even taken seriously in this country when in the usa you'll see regular police patrols on a shift basis in ireland you'll see gardai out on patrol at the end of the month to get the figures up.

testicle

trentf wrote:

the problem with ireland and the lack of interest in the military is the fact that the country is surrounded by 2 of the biggest militaries in the world in great britain and the usa both being democracies and friendly towards ireland.

When was the last time you looked at a map?

trentf

testicle wrote:

When was the last time you looked at a map?

ahh the sarcastic avenger strikes again, where will he strike next noone knows.

BostonB

trentf wrote:

....Perhaps its this lack of any external threat ever being posed to ireland that has made the people so relaxed and lazy in their attitude. ...

....you've never opened a history book either...

the_syco

trentf wrote:

the problem with ireland and the lack of interest in the military is the fact that the country is surrounded by 2 of the biggest militaries in the world in great britain and the usa both being democracies and friendly towards ireland.

You miss the bit in your history books about Britain invading us? And now you're asking for them to come back with their guns and their bombs? FFS!

Capt'n Midnight

Even with the UK and the US protecting us we still got bombed by the Germans.

cp251

the_syco wrote:

You miss the bit in your history books about Britain invading us? And now you're asking for them to come back with their guns and their bombs? FFS!

Britain didn't invade us. The Normans did, in fact they were invited in, go back to your history books!

The only reason we were not invaded by the Germans in WW2 was the fact of the Royal Navy and the RAF being between us and them.

Darkman is dead right!

BostonB

cp251 wrote:

Britain didn't invade us. The Normans did, in fact they were invited in, go back to your history books!...

That would be the Anglo-Norman Invasion.

cp251 wrote:

The only reason we were not invaded by the Germans in WW2 was the fact of the Royal Navy and the RAF being between us and them. Darkman is dead right!

The only reason? Geographical location would seem to be a more significant factor.

cp251

BostonB wrote:

That would be the Anglo-Norman Invasion I assume?

They spoke French!

monkey tennis

trentf wrote:

What has ireland ever gone through to make it so anti military?

I don't think it's a case of being specifically anti-military, but a case of not being specifically pro-military. Most people don't see a good reason for spending €1Bn on defence, particularly when there are much more immediate and tangible problems that this money could be spent on (hospitals for example).

the_syco wrote:

You miss the bit in your history books about Britain invading us? And now you're asking for them to come back with their guns and their bombs? FFS!

The only possible response to this is: :rolleyes:

BostonB

cp251 wrote:

They spoke French!

So what. Henry II was still the King of England.

cp251

BostonB wrote:

So what. Henry II was still the King of England.

Yes indeed he was and major parts of France not to mention Scotland. Not only that he WAS French. In fact when he did come to Ireland, he arrived FROM France.

Thus we were in fact invaded by Frenchmen. All the trouble was started by a Frenchman. History don't you just love it!

Whatever, Ireland was always going to be taken over by one or other large European country. In a way it's a pity it wasn't the French. They would never have given us independance. We probably wouldn't have wanted it. We would all now speak French, eat foie gras. Drink a lot of wine and be arrogant to foreigners. Come to think of it, most of that is true now anyway:D

Not only that, the armee des Irlandaise would be well equipped and we would provide their best troops just as we did for the British. Maybe they would have won a few more wars with us to help them, even :eek: defeat the English;) .

BostonB

According you the French did...:rolleyes: Either an English King landed and took over power or he didn't. End of.

cp251

Sophistry my friend:
No a French king invaded. It happens that he was King of England

He was:

By the Grace of God, King of the English
and Duke of the Normans and Aquitanians
and Count of the Angevins
and Lord of Ireland

Really the End of:cool:

BostonB

Sophistry indeed. A French king but not the King of France. The King of England. He established English control of Ireland. Not French. Thats the outcome. The point is, there have been external threats to Ireland, one of them being England. Its pedantic to argue otherwise because someone used Britain instead of England, or that the King of England was a Norman/French.

Its of no relevance to the thread other than Ireland HAS had external threats, invasions, occupations etc.

testicle

BostonB wrote:

That would be the Anglo-Norman Invasion.

The Angles were German.

micdug

BostonB wrote:

Its of no relevance to the thread other than Ireland HAS had external threats, invasions, occupations etc.

"HAS" being the operative word. No longer. ergo no need to defend against a threat that no longer exists. €1,000,000,000 to spend on actual real threats such as:
Foot & Mouth
Pandemic
Climate Change
Bridge Collapse
Skangers with knives
None of which can be defeated with a Steyr or even a fighter jet (apart from the last)

BostonB

MRSA is a bigger threat than anything I've seen in this forum.

purple'n'gold

Deep down we really haven’t got used to the fact that we are independent. We still have the British mind set and we are quiet comfortable with the RAF and Royal Navy looking after us.

spank_inferno

of €1billion what would be taken up by wages?
Does that leave much for equiptment?

If there was a showpiece new purchase mabey a new naval vessal would be appropriate.

spank_inferno

of €1billion what would be taken up by wages?
Does that leave much for equiptment?

If there was a showpiece new purchase mabey a new naval vessal would be appropriate.

testicle

spank_inferno wrote:

of €1billion what would be taken up by wages?
Does that leave much for equiptment?

If there was a showpiece new purchase mabey a new naval vessal would be appropriate.

How about three of them?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-new-ships-will-replace-aoife-emer-and-aisling-1044157.html

BostonB

purplengold wrote:

Deep down we really haven’t got used to the fact that we are independent. We still have the British mind set and we are quiet comfortable with the RAF and Royal Navy looking after us.

That doesn't make sense. Look at all the conflicts the Britain has been involved in since Irish independence. How many has Ireland? How do we have the same mind set?

purple'n'gold

BostonB wrote:

That doesn't make sense. Look at all the conflicts the Britain has been involved in since Irish independence. How many has Ireland? How do we have the same mind set?

Thousands and thousands of Irishmen have joined the British armed forces since independence, and are still continuing to do so.

OS119

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Our defense budget will be over €1Bn - what could you get for that ?

You could get half a B2 ...

or 75% of a Type 45 AAW Destroyer or the same of an Astute class SSN.

or two and a half of the 21,000 ton 'Ocean' class of LPH's.

or fifteen Typhoon swing-role fighters.

or twenty-eight F-16C (Block 52) multi-role fighters.

or twenty-four C-130J Hercules transport aircraft.

or thirty-five CH-47D Chinook heavy lift cargo helicopters

or 70 AS 532 Cougar (super puma) meduim lift battlefield support helicopters.

now a 12,000 ton LHD, four C-130J's, 10 Chinooks and 18 Cougars would be very useful both in facilitating Irish contributions to UN/EU/NATO-led Peacekeeping operations and - particularly the helicopters - very useful in the 'military aid to the civil power' operations the Irish military is often tasked with, but isn't resourced for.

flog the AW139's to JP McMannus, thats what they were designed for....

BostonB

purplengold wrote:

Thousands and thousands of Irishmen have joined the British armed forces since independence, and are still continuing to do so.

Make up your mind. Either the Irish are happy to fight or they're not.

BostonB

OS119 wrote:

....
flog the AW139's to JP McMannus, thats what they were designed for....

Finally something funny.

I wonder how many JSF it will buy....