Dauphin 247

Steyr

Ooh shows what we could have done with ours i like the scheme!



See here for the rest http://www.rotorleasing.com/AS365Dauphins.htm

MooseJam

very nice, did we sell ours, used to see them flying overhead a lot a few years back haven't seen them in ages, they sounded fantastic !

cushtac

MooseJam wrote:

very nice, did we sell ours

That's one of them.

BrianD

Speaking of Dauphins. Two of the former fleet were geared for use with the Le Eithne. Now that they are all gone is there a plan to purchase other aircraft for use with this vessel and the ones on order or has the deck now become a convenient place to put up a marquee for visitors?

What other helicopters are suitable for use with the Eithne?

MooseJam

I wonder how much they sold them for , half a mill each at a guess

aidan_dunne

BrianD wrote:

Speaking of Dauphins. Two of the former fleet were geared for use with the Le Eithne. Now that they are all gone is there a plan to purchase other aircraft for use with this vessel and the ones on order or has the deck now become a convenient place to put up a marquee for visitors?

What other helicopters are suitable for use with the Eithne?

Well, as far as I know, Eithne was originally designed to take a Lynx but when the government of the time decided to go with Dauphins instead the design had to be re-jigged a bit to take them instead. So, presumably, with a bit of re-working again she could be made suitable to take Lynx's again.

However, that's unlikely to ever happen. There's no plans to purchase helicopters suitable for operating off Eithne again. In fact, since about the mid-90's or so (possibly even earlier), even the navalised Dauphins didn't operate off Eithne anymore. When the CASAs entered service they took over the maritime patrol role completely, making helicopter operations off Eithne redundant.

The story goes that that the Air Corps crewmen didn't like operating off Eithne anyway. Apparantly they would fly out in the morning, meet up with Eithne, do a few patrols and, if possible, then fly back to Baldonnell in the evening. If if was too late to get back to Baldonnell they would be forced to stay overnight on Eithne and this was the bit they didn't like. Whether they felt the accomodation on ship wasn't good enough for them or what, I don't know, but this whole thing caused quite a bit of friction between the Air Corps and Naval Service at the time, I believe. As a result, unless the Naval Service are ever allowed operate their own helicopters independently of the Air Corps, I don't think we'll ever see choppers operating off Eithne again. In fact, as far as I know, all the deck handling equipment for choppers that used to be on Eithne was taking off years ago and is simply rotting away in some warehouse down in Hawlboline these days, so I think that says it all really, doesn't it?

aidan_dunne

MooseJam wrote:

I wonder how much they sold them for , half a mill each at a guess

If that, even. Apparantly they went for feck all. Seems like the Department of Defense just wanted shot of them as quickly as possible and reports suggest they went for a real giveaway price.

cushtac

aidan_dunne wrote:

Whether they felt the accomodation on ship wasn't good enough for them or what, I don't know, but this whole thing caused quite a bit of friction between the Air Corps and Naval Service at the time, I believe.

From what I've heard they just didn't like being at sea.

Heraldoffreeent

aidan_dunne wrote:

If that, even. Apparantly they went for feck all. Seems like the Department of Defense just wanted shot of them as quickly as possible and reports suggest they went for a real giveaway price.

€84,000 each was the figure I heard, and the same for the Gazelle,Also heard that they would cost the AC €1.0m to overhaul.I am presuming this is to overhaul for mil purposes, I cant imagine these guys spent more than $250,000 on them.
I see Helis similar to this(make, age, etc) for sale at about €1.2m on the Eurocopter second hand site.

Groan............!!!

Steyr

aidan_dunne wrote:

I don't think we'll ever see choppers operating off Eithne again. In fact, as far as I know, all the deck handling equipment for choppers that used to be on Eithne was taking off years ago and is simply rotting away in some warehouse down in Hawlboline these days, so I think that says it all really, doesn't it?

Apparently on other Boards member have said that IAC "Techies" have said that its only a minor job of attaching the Harpoon deck system to the AW139's.


Maybe with the "fresh" blood thats in the IAC these days that they might enjoy Naval Ops??

cushtac

Steyr wrote:

Maybe with the "fresh" blood thats in the IAC these days that they might enjoy Naval Ops??

I think it depends more on the NS than the AC. Plus since the AC is moving towards a greater focus on Army co-op it's unlikely to consider going back to sea when they've got dedicated aircraft to fill the role the Dauphins once had.

Steyr

Id be inclined to agree with that Cushtac.:)

jmayo

cushtac wrote:

From what I've heard they just didn't like being at sea.

Ahh the poor pets. If true it would provide another reason why some people have dim view of AC.

€84,000 each for Dauphin or Gazelle ?
Are we just talking about the airframe or what?

aidan_dunne

jmayo wrote:

Ahh the poor pets. If true it would provide another reason why some people have dim view of AC.

Well, hopefully that whole attitude and way of operating is beginning to change in the IAC. Not before time, too. For too long the Air Corps operated on an almost unionised basis but I think there's a new way of thinking and operating starting to enter the Air Corps (albeit slowly!). Through the defence forces as a whole, in fact. Change takes time but I think as more and more of the old guard, so to speak, are leaving or retiring and the newer blood is coming in then attitudes and new ways of thinking and things are starting to come on stream and that can only be a good thing.

jmayo wrote:

€84,000 each for Dauphin or Gazelle ?
Are we just talking about the airframe or what?

If the rumours and stories floating around are to be believed, that's for the whole thing: airframe, engines, avionics, the whole kit and caboodle on each chopper. As I said earlier, they went for an almost giveaway price when compared to the average "book price" that Herald mentioned above.

Heraldoffreeent

jmayo wrote:

Ahh the poor pets. If true it would provide another reason why some people have dim view of AC.

€84,000 each for Dauphin or Gazelle ?
Are we just talking about the airframe or what?

€84,000 each, and also for the Gazelle, it included Airframes, engines and all the spares the AC had.
Bear in mind they were Military certified, you couldnt just fly them out of the Don and on to your country pad.

jmayo

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

€84,000 each, and also for the Gazelle, it included Airframes, engines and all the spares the AC had.
Bear in mind they were Military certified, you couldnt just fly them out of the Don and on to your country pad.

Jeeze if only I knew. Someobdy somewhere made a packet.
Buy cheap, do some upgrade refit work and sell with profit.

You could register them with the CAA, get dispensation to fly (not full CofA), then try and fly them back here on a UK reg.

That is how the ex military Gazelles are flying in the UK.
Also the UH-1 based out of Blackpool operates on a similar certification.
Of course there are limitations regarding number of crew and passengers that can be carried.
I can't imagine the IAA allowing anything resembling military go through their own certification and onto the register.
We are neutral after all :rolleyes:

Heraldoffreeent

jmayo wrote:

Jeeze if only I knew. Someobdy somewhere made a packet.
Buy cheap, do some upgrade refit work and sell with profit.

You could register them with the CAA, get dispensation to fly (not full CofA), then try and fly them back here on a UK reg.

That is how the ex military Gazelles are flying in the UK.
Also the UH-1 based out of Blackpool operates on a similar certification.
Of course there are limitations regarding number of crew and passengers that can be carried.
I can't imagine the IAA allowing anything resembling military go through their own certification and onto the register.
We are neutral after all :rolleyes:

Yeah I know what you mean,I have a share in an IT company thats been going well for a couple of years now.On a dank and dreary day in oct I think, myself and my partner came accross the PIN notice for the tender, we seriously considerd bidding, however we have no aviation expericnce.In hindsight it would have been a great deal for us.To make serious money out of this all you would have to do is put the right pricing model in place, for example JP Mac owns a couple of Helis, but when he is not using them they are time shared out, the same applys to Bernard MacNamara.
However, Most business manuals will tell you to stick to what you know, and we had an issue with our cash rusting away in a shed somewhere.

Heraldoffreeent

jmayo wrote:

Jeeze if only I knew. Someobdy somewhere made a packet.
Buy cheap, do some upgrade refit work and sell with profit.

You could register them with the CAA, get dispensation to fly (not full CofA), then try and fly them back here on a UK reg.

That is how the ex military Gazelles are flying in the UK.
Also the UH-1 based out of Blackpool operates on a similar certification.
Of course there are limitations regarding number of crew and passengers that can be carried.
I can't imagine the IAA allowing anything resembling military go through their own certification and onto the register.
We are neutral after all :rolleyes:

Yeah I know what you mean,I have a share in an IT company thats been going well for a couple of years now.On a dank and dreary day in oct I think, myself and my partner came accross the PIN notice for the tender, we seriously considerd bidding, however we have no aviation expericnce.In hindsight it would have been a great deal for us.To make serious money out of this all you would have to do is put the right pricing model in place, for example JP Mac owns a couple of Helis, but when he is not using them they are time shared out, the same applys to Bernard MacNamara.
However, Most business manuals will tell you to stick to what you know, and we had an issue with our cash rusting away in a shed somewhere.

As for the Mil Spec,l I think you wouldn't have all that much to do, Its not like they were fitted to carry Rocket Pods or Cannon at any stage

jmayo

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

Yeah I know what you mean,I have a share in an IT company thats been going well for a couple of years now.On a dank and dreary day in oct I think, myself and my partner came accross the PIN notice for the tender, we seriously considerd bidding, however we have no aviation expericnce.In hindsight it would have been a great deal for us.To make serious money out of this all you would have to do is put the right pricing model in place, for example JP Mac owns a couple of Helis, but when he is not using them they are time shared out, the same applys to Bernard MacNamara.
However, Most business manuals will tell you to stick to what you know, and we had an issue with our cash rusting away in a shed somewhere.

I think you are thinking about using them as exec machines?
I don't think that would be a runner since military background.
The certification even the CAA dishes out for ex-military kit really only allows for them to be used as non commerical.
Also the refits to bring up to exec standard inside would be expensive.
Don't think JP or his like would like sitting on canvas seat.

My thought was you might get few people that might want ex military machines.
Brits sold off their Gazelles recently and they were considerd nice unusual kit.
And there are always a few African gentlemen knocking about that need some extra military equipment.

Anyway the money that the IAC got appears to be really low.

ex_infantry man

cushtac wrote:

From what I've heard they just didn't like being at sea.

from what i was told the reason the dauphin was taken off eithne was due to budget cut backs, eithne,s flight deck was rigged up to carry containers about two years ago on short notice to liberia and in the end it never went and the rigging is still welded in place today as far as i know

Steyr

ex_infantry man wrote:

from what i was told the reason the dauphin was taken off eithne was due to budget cut backs, eithne,s flight deck was rigged up to carry containers about two years ago on short notice to liberia and in the end it never went and the rigging is still welded in place today as far as i know

All of the above is more or less correct, here is what a Navy head told me on IMO:

"The Deck was fitted with a number of lashing points for containers/Mowags for a proposed Liberia run that never took place.

Heli ops were cancelled for a number of reasons , basically the helis were side tracked and there were never enough hours available to train with the naval service, also the great brain drain of qualified personel within the AC meant that shortage of qualified crews was iminent so the whole heli at sea thing collapsed.

there werer several underlying issues that either party were never really satisfied with, seviceability of Aircraft, availabilty of crews and the ability for the helo to deploy away from Baldonnel for sustained periods of time. The helos were also tasked with SAR ops which were far more important than having a dedicated helo for FP.

Also having one machine on standby for MAT's and there only being two helos available to the NS caused problems.

There was some concerns about fuel contamination for the helo in the early days , never sure whether this was ever sorted out. basically it was just the wrong time and the wrong set up..should have been a dedicated maritime unit with no AC or Army involvement but the concept of one type being able to do all things was prevalent but was unrealistic.

Was never actually either branch of the services fault entirely..just the political masters had too much influenece in what the AC did and the powers that were running both services at the time didn't ever want to upset the apple cart..stemmed from weak leadership and not from any unwillingness of the NS..I can't speak for the AC side as I knew nobody there who commit to whether they ever felt it was a viable option. I know the techies etc who came along felt it to be a waste of time as they had very limited resources and man power at the time also."

Scruff

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

€84,000 each, and also for the Gazelle, it included Airframes, engines and all the spares the AC had.

if only i had even won lotto plus 2....

burnedfaceman

i saw this link on www.irishairpics.com apparently the aircraft is going to sell for $1.2m!

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=6fe7b07c-6e8b-4031-ab55-5b318b7f379a#d