A couple of kettlebell questions

smacl

Noticing that a number of you lads are seriously into kettlebells, I've a couple of questions for the experts. To give a bit of background, i've been using the KBs on and off for about 3 years now, more off than on recently. I'm 41, 82kg, 6ft and in pretty poor shape at present. In an attempt to lose some weight and regain some fitness, I've gone back to the KBs. My current session, three times a week is;

with single 24kg bell

10 single hand swings, swapping at high point
5 cleans on left and right
5 cleans + press on left and right
5 snatches on left and right
5 presses on left and right
2 x 10 2 hand snatches
20 leg passes

with single 16kg bell

20 single hand swings, swapping at high point
10 cleans on left and right
10 cleans + press on left and right
10 snatches on left and right
10 presses on left and right

Questions;

I'm thinking of extending the work-out; would I be better going to two 16kg bells, or doing more reps of the above? The 24k is already a load of work, so i reckon a single 32k is out of the question for now.

I only use KBs every second day, as otherwise my elbow joints ache like hell. Should I get a light set, or do different excercises for odd days?

I'm not doing any MA at present, but when I do, its wrestling oriented. Any excercises particularly good for wrestling/judo type activities?

I currently use Pavel Tsatsouline's books as reference for the exercises, but they're a bit light on designing a workout regime. Anyone have other good references?

Any other comments on the above workout also welcome.

Cheers

Shane

paddyc

shane

I am sure there are 2 lads on the forum that will be able to help ya


If you not getting any replies on fitness i would say that theres a KB workshop on in the next few months you might like to look into that


paddy

BLUNT

Its hard to know what you mean is in poor shape ? as what is good shape to some one,is bad shape to an other....there levels upon levels of fittness.Some times you have to work training frequency with training intensity,as it is the recovery period between training sessions where the tissue adaption occurs and enables the indvidual to return stronger,for the next training session.....For me personaly its not how hard I train but how quickly I recover,from the seesion is how I judge my fittness/strength.....

Now I'm no expert but have coached pro-boxers,as there strength & endurance coach along with others but I think you need to look at diet and true rest,along with pro-active (training to prevent injury,not as a result off )training.........

I dont know your Vo2 max ( defined as the the higest rate at which oxgen can be taken up and utilized during exercise by a person ) body fat,body type or your one rep max...to work out what type of bell I would have you useing or if you should even be using bells to start of with ??? as speed strength ( for fighting with ) is 20% of your one rep max.So there is a lot to be taken into account.I would suggest going and seeing a coach,as you need some hands on advice.All the best J

BLUNT

Its hard to know what you mean is in poor shape ? as what is good shape to some one,is bad shape to an other....there levels upon levels of fittness.Some times you have to work training frequency with training intensity,as it is the recovery period between training sessions where the tissue adaption occurs and enables the indvidual to return stronger,for the next training session.....For me personaly its not how hard I train but how quickly I recover,from the seesion is how I judge my fittness/strength.....

Now I'm no expert but have coached pro-boxers,as there strength & endurance coach along with others but I think you need to look at diet and true rest,along with pro-active (training to prevent injury,not as a result off )training.........

I dont know your Vo2 max ( defined as the the higest rate at which oxgen can be taken up and utilized during exercise by a person ) body fat,body type or your one rep max...to work out what type of bell I would have you useing or if you should even be using bells to start of with ??? as speed strength ( for fighting with ) is 20% of your one rep max.So there is a lot to be taken into account.I would suggest going and seeing a coach,as you need some hands on advice.All the best J

smacl

BLUNT wrote:

Its hard to know what you mean is in poor shape ? as what is good shape to some one,is bad shape to an other....

Fair point. By poor shape, I mean about 8kg heavier than when I last competed (chinese wrestling), not exercising as much (outside of the kettle bells I run 3-5 times per week, 3-4 miles, no wrestling at present). Pretty knackered after 20-30 mins on the KBs. Most of the rest of my time is in sedentary work.

BLUNT wrote:

I think you need to look at diet and true rest,along with pro-active (training to prevent injury,not as a result off )training.........

My diets pretty ok and the moment. Lots of fruit, whole grain cereal, lean meat, only boozing at the weekends. Lots of small meals, carbs before exercise, proteins afterwards, etc... Being in a sedentary job, I get plenty of physical rest time. (too much actually )

BLUNT wrote:

I dont know your Vo2 max ( defined as the the higest rate at which oxgen can be taken up and utilized during exercise by a person ) body fat,body type or your one rep max...to work out what type of bell I would have you useing or if you should even be using bells to start of with ??? as speed strength ( for fighting with ) is 20% of your one rep max.So there is a lot to be taken into account.I would suggest going and seeing a coach,as you need some hands on advice.All the best J

Fair enough, I guess its not clever to give training suggestions to someone without knowing their capabilities. You lost me a bit on the '20% of your one rep max' bit, could you elaborate on that? As for body fat, I guess about 7kg worth of Arthur Guinness around the midriff, coming off at the rate of about 1kg a fortnight

Thanks for the reply, and as you suggest, getting a bit of hands on coaching is probably the way to go.

Cheers

Shane

Stephen McGrath

Hi Shane,
Just a quick reply to say that starting to work with 2 ketllebells really ups the intensity but if you think your in poor shape at the moment you might want to get fairly handy with just one kettlebell. You might also want to add in some differnt exercises such as turkish get ups, windmills, etc,. To vary your routine, don't do just all kettlebells. Add in running, pull ups, deadlifts and whwtever you fancy as long as it proves to be a bit challenging. Go onto www.gymjones.com or www.crossfit.com to get some good workouts. Make sure your technique is perfect before you think of going near the 2 kettlebell drills. Go to a few classes or workshops.

Stephen

BLUNT

Yeah get some coaching on the bells......there is so many ways to get fit,just dont rush it.There is a guy called Izumi Tabata,he came up with an interval protocol of 20 secs of maximum intensity exercise,followed by 10 secounds rest....repeated 8 times ( 4 mins ).This form of Tabata training I use a lot when coaching,its first class and can be applyed to near anything..ie body weight,weights,running.....I coach it on a rowing machine,it will get the results your after.....research has showen over six weeks it can increase the Vo2 max by 14% along with a 28% increase in aerobic capacity.

Some times ,time is short dont be fooled by the shortness of time.....it will knock the sha-it out of you put in 6mins of cleans ( with out putten them on the floor ) with two 16kg "kettle-bells" or use there baby sisters ie "bumb bells" plus some heavy Russian twists and side bends...and I'ed reckon you'ed be sorted but and its a big BUT..........I cant offer advice with out meeting some one,so just take ideas from this and what other people may have to say.All the best J

Ballisong

Hi BLUNT,

The Tabata training sounds interesting, especially on the rowing machine, any chance you could elaborate a bit more for me i.e what you'd have a beginner start off with?

smacl

Thanks for the advice lads.

Stephen, I've tried the windmills, but found them difficult with the 16kg. I might pick up a couple of lighter KBs to get the form right, and get used to the 2 KB routines. I do a couple of Turkish get ups now and again, but haven't yet incorporated them into a regular routine. I'm doing a fair bit of running as well, but really enjoy the KBs.

Jason, the Tabata sounds pretty intense, like HIIT with much shorter times. I think I'll try it with running before kettlebells. BTW, outside of your course in November, do you know anyone else coaching kettlebells in Dublin. I'm mainly interested in having my lifting form checked and corrected. I'd also be on for buying an extra 16kgs and a pair of 8kgs if you're importing some. The last lot I got from the UK, and the shipping costs were pretty sore.

BLUNT

Yeah I'm bringen in two shipments of kettle bells...one before Christmas and one after.The first load are 16kg'z and 24kg's....no 8kg'z sorry ( they are in 2nd shipment )....basicly my bizzness "3kings mind-body-spirit" works with ole skool skillz and modern methods of coachen.I'm returning to Ireland November time and will be doing courses for GAA and Muay Thai camps and I've a wrestling school interested too in the metabolic conditioning circuits....so if you wanted some more info Ballisong just drop me aline on jason3kings@googlemail.com any time.
smacl........I'ed say work with some over head swing's,side bend's,russian twists like I said for a while with some bumbells.As talken about the science behind why you should do some stuff does my head in ie "neurophysiological synchronization is needed to control and fire the apporite muscle fibers in proper sequence to achieve the desired movement"........basicly its easyer and safer for me to talk face to face but keep doing what your doen....just work for long term goals,not short term and by long term I mean training when your 65yrs old..............all the best J

edges

I just started training with a Kettlebell and am enjoying it immensley. Its not just hard work but it's also enjoyable!

In answer to the coment that Pavel is light on programme construction. I've so far found his methods to be simplistic yet extremely effective. The point being you don't need vast amounts of variety.

I also use the Tabata from time to time. This is one of the most brutal methds i've had the displeasure to experience:
Pick an excersise, pref a full body drill with low risk of injury
Have a large clock or alarm beside you
Go as hard as your able (safely) for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds, ONLY 10 seconds
repeat for 8 sets (4 mins)
Puke

I've used Dumbell Front Squat & Press, Barbell front Squat & Press, Clean & Press and Burpees. Gonna try it with KB swings and snatches when I'm more confident with the technique.

All the best

Dave
www.wildgesema.com

smacl

edges wrote:

Gonna try it with KB swings and snatches when I'm more confident with the technique.

I tried 4 minute Tabata sets of swings, snatches, and clean and press last night. By the time I got to the clean & press, I was pretty destroyed and only made it half way through. This was with the lighter 16kg bell, without putting it down at any stage during the 4 minutes, changing hands during the rest period. A couple of observations;

- I cound not increase the speed much, on swings and snatches particularly, from regular reps, as the dynamic of the exercise (for my ability at any rate) demand that the bell have the slowed / weightless feel at the high point in the movement. Any faster and control would become a real issue.

- The clean & press rep never ended at the even 20 second interval, so the last rep and hand change ate up a second of my rest time. Not good.

- After failing to complete the clean & press set, i took a minute and did a set of leg passes which worked well. Next time, I'll try for the leg passes, 2 hand swing, and 2 hand snatch on the 24kg.

MikePG

This is a great book.. Well worth the money.

http://www.intensefitness.co.uk/Kettle_bell_bible.htm

BLUNT

Tabata sets with the KB...not bad,but if you think about it ? Tabata is like you've said 20 on and 10 off for ten minets.If your a amature in the KB's ( two 24kg ) you doing an average of 1 lift every 15 sec's...times that by 10 mins...with out letting the bells touch the floor or leaving your chest area and thats just for 40 lifts in the competition time and thats not considered a high standred.....it's far harder to go the full distance,that just do the Tabata sets with them.As the pros do 106 lifts in 10 mins with two 32kgs or 160 swings with one 32kg...thats heavy metal.I'm just at national coach level in this stuff ( only one in Ireland,under BKLF/IUKL ) so much to learn with this stuff but as a wise man once said "the metal dont lie"................J