stuck in the middle with you,don't know what it is I should do?

El Stuntman

here's the situation, I was playing a lot of online poker (cash only) up until around Easter, playing well and making money, moving up through the lower limits quite nicely from a starting point of 500 at Xmas I ran this up to about 9k. I also made another few k playing live in this period, again mainly cash.

Then I pretty much got bored with online and withdrew all my cash (after a little bit of mad rollercoasting at 5/10 and 10/20, where I thankfully didn't lose everything). This is all fine, but here's the problem - I play live on average once a week and since virtually stopping playing online, I have been playing like a complete tool in the live environment. Playing weak/tight crappy poker and generally bleeding chips. No change there, some/most of you may say! I am almost exactly even for the last 3 months of playing live which is a reversal of all previous (winning) live form prior to this. I have also lost exactly 3 euro from my small online dabbling in the same period.

Has anyone else had this experience of feeling 'out of shape' when it comes to your live game? i.e. I am lacking in confidence and playing poorly. More importantly, how did you get out of it?

all suggestions welcomed (except 'move up levels')

smurph

I have actually played at your table only a couple of times live. I have found that you play solid enough poker. Maybe use you online account for satellites for big Live tournaments, or alternate your venue for live games. Going to the same place all the time will make your play maybe a little stale. Also don't forget that other players are reading the books, and constantly trying to improve their game, so be willing to change your ideas of different players, I mean the chief tried to tighten his game up for a small while.

El Stuntman

smurph wrote:

Going to the same place all the time will make your play maybe a little stale.

hmmm, hadn't thought of that - good suggestion this (especially with Mr Ivory opening his new joint soon)

Jesus Wept

move down levels.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

You can't in Dublin.

he could go play 1/1 with the students in the jackpot!

5starpool

El Stuntman wrote:

Has anyone else had this experience of feeling 'out of shape' when it comes to your live game? i.e. I am lacking in confidence and playing poorly. More importantly, how did you get out of it?

Yes, I have been feeling like this all year, and I have not gotten out of it yet. I think the basic reasoning behind this is that I need to improve my game, which is part of this vicious circle where you run bad, your confidence goes somewhat, so you play play and still run bad. It happens, but it really can affect your head. This is the worst run I have experienced since I started playing, and it made me realise finally that it can't be all down to bad variance. Deciding how to examine and improve ones game is the next step.

Mr.Plough

phantom_lord wrote:

he could go play 1/1 with the students in the jackpot!

ftw

El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Glyn, do you honestly find playing live 1 / 2 cash fun over the long haul? I find it so ineffably boring.

yes, poker is more fun/challenging when deepstacked (for me anyway). The tournies I play tend to become AIPF crapshoots and that's just not very interesting. I can't afford the time to play 2/3 day events

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Does running prop bets, while it makes things interesting, take away focus from your actual play?

meh, you're probably right! I blame Halfbaked for this...

El Stuntman

5starpool wrote:

Yes, I have been feeling like this all year, and I have not gotten out of it yet. I think the basic reasoning behind this is that I need to improve my game, which is part of this vicious circle where you run bad, your confidence goes somewhat, so you play play and still run bad. It happens, but it really can affect your head. This is the worst run I have experienced since I started playing, and it made me realise finally that it can't be all down to bad variance. Deciding how to examine and improve ones game is the next step.

I agree - unfortunately this is much easier when you are playing on t' interweb than live

El Stuntman

phantom_lord wrote:

he could go play 1/1 with the students in the jackpot!

<shivers>

eoghan104

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Does running prop bets, while it makes things interesting, take away focus from your actual play?

Glyn,

Id imagine this is somewhat true but it can be so boring playing live and folding the majority of the time and then couple that with all the slow drunks and hollywood merchants in the SE it really can be mind numbing.

Running props is a good way to keep an interest in each hand without playing to many bad cards just to be involved.

BuChan

hey glyn, when you were playing and winning online you probably played more than once a week no? maybe you're just not playing enough and have ran bad on a lot of the nights you did play. you might also loosen up your game a little bit.

jbravado

BuChan wrote:

. you might also loosen up your game a little bit.

S I C K O

I find the opposite-if I play too much I just become a totally deranged spewy gamblor-my game suspect at best literally falls apart-(by too much I mean everyday for a month or more and spinning online during the day)

If I only play once a week I find my game is "relatively" sharp as Im looking forward to playing.

I think the main thing is you need to be in the right frame of mind to play-ie rested-sober-not concerned with real life worries.Do you still enjoy playing live as I can accept coming from online it is painfully slow at times.

Props are just silly fun to keep you interested and dont really distract you from the game.If your in a big pot you rarely notice your miserable 10 euro prop for example.

El Stuntman

BuChan wrote:

you might also loosen up your game a little bit.

lol, "how to turn running average into a fully fledged downswing in 1 easy step"....

I have loosened up a lot actually - in position. I just seem to be constantly missing with draws/semibluffs and having to give up to the calling station donks with TP, no kicker.
bah...

El Stuntman

jbravado wrote:

I think the main thing is you need to be in the right frame of mind to play-ie rested-sober-not concerned with real life worries.Do you still enjoy playing live as I can accept coming from online it is painfully slow at times.

yes, I enjoy playing live far more than online

Ace2007

smurph wrote:

Also don't forget that other players are reading the books, and constantly trying to improve their game

really - i knew i was doin something wrong!!!!

ocallagh

Once a week over 3 months is not a huge sample! How many hands do you get in a night? Maybe 20/hr or 200/night? Over 3 months that is roughly 3k hands, AND you are still breaking even so it's not the worst of downswings by a long shot. sbrugby posted something about a 100k (hands) downswing. Even accounting for the poor quality of live cash players in Dublin, a 3k swing is tiny.

Now I know it's not a downswing as such you are complaining about, it's more your play thet you are questioning, however could your results over the past 3 months skew your own thoughts on how you have actually been playing?

For example, it would not be far fetched to assume you were playing fine for the first month or two, had a moderate downsing (see first para), got paranoid it had something to do with quitting online and then spiralled out of control resulting in actual bad poker play over your last 3 or 4 sessions.

You start to get frustrated by the game, lose confidence, you are more prone to tilt and you start questioning your game. You even change your game to try and remedy this and it gets worse. I get bored of poker when I'm losing and I find I play passively and I don't have that desire to win anymore.

Over 100k hands I would say take a break... but with as little as 3k hands there is no reason to lose confidence or question your ability. You need to re-focus and realise that your are still 100% capable of being a winning player and don't let 3k of hands put you down. I would say on your next visit to the SE or wherever try to play every hand to the best of your ability. Be incredibly strict about this. If you play the hand badly or are unsure then make a note of it and post it up on boards the next morning. Do this for a month and it should make it easier to identify any serious problems if any at all (which I doubt there are).

Glowingmind

Your best bet is to try to identify exactly what it is that's casuing these problems. Is it a poker issue or is it something more personal/psychological.

I went through a similar run at the beginning of this year where i was just breaking even live and losing quite a bit online. One of the things i do to combat this is to change my game. I play Razz and omaha/omaha hi/lo - i suck at both of these but they tend to engage me much more than holdem. Also, because i suck i play really low stakes so losing a couple of buy-in isn't making much of a dent in my overall bankroll.

In relation to your weak/tight crappy poker - i went through this live at the beginning of this year, and late last year. For me it was just a case of being really strict about what hands i was allowing myself to play. I found this particularly useful, because it made me stop limping with stupid hands in early position.

The fact of the matter is, you're well aware of what you shouldn't be doing as regards abc poker, but you're probably still doing it. So stop.