Strategy v Lee Watkinson playing blind on bubble?

ArmaniJeanss

Found the below quote on 2+2, can't find who originally wrote it though.

We were told during the break that the action on Lee Watkinson's table during the hand for hand period was a little unusual. Lee's table was great for him as it had 8 players with short stacks and him, sitting on nearly half a million.

So Lee decided to take over, betting 150,000 without even looking at his cards, if anyone wanted to play with him they had to call all in.

He did this every hand until we hit the money.

What hand range do we call with if
a) we desperately want to make it into the money
or
b) we are willing to take risks because we want to cash as high as possible
or
c) we want to play as mathematically correct as possible
???

phantom_lord

stack sizes, blinds, antes, how many are left? how many shortstacks are left? how short are they? what position are u?

ArmaniJeanss

phantom_lord wrote:

stack sizes, blinds, antes, how many are left? how many shortstacks are left? how short are they? what position are u?

I don't know, stop asking so many relevant questions

I just thought it was an interesting situation.

Do blinds/antes matter here if his 2bet is always putting you all-in?
Position, lets say you are on his left so he is going all-in before you act (and you get 52o when utg all the time)
Its the hand for hand so there is between 0 and 10 people left before the bubble breaks.
You have no idea of what is happening on the other side of the room, theres continuous rumour that the bubble is about to break, usual stuff etc.
And lets say your stack is comfortable enough that its 90% likely you will be able to fold into the money without any problem.

phantom_lord

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

And lets say your stack is comfortable enough that its 90% likely you will be able to fold into the money without any problem.

if making the money is all that matters, you should probably fold even aces.

Van Dice

It depends if he raises UTG and you are UTG+1, or if he raises SB v your BB.
Obv not because of his hand strength but you need to factor in how many players are left to act behind you, and the chances that they pick up AA/KK (prob the only hands they overcall with if they are trying to blind into the money, maybe not even KK).

If SB v BB I prob call when about 60%+ v his range? 66+, KJo, KTs, A9o, A7s. Although I don't play tournies
Maybe even looser depending on how short and what antes are. It's far and away the best spot you will have to get chips. And the bubble isn't nearly as important in MTTs as STTs. Although I appreciate that for some people making the money might have a big impact so it would be correct to call a lot tighter.
If in MP trickier, need to work out how likely AA/KK is behind you etc. I couldn't be bothered doing that!

sikes

if i can double my equity with a double up i will take a 50/50, ie top 50% of hands, which is probably a bit too kind becuase there are blinds and antes. however, whether you can double your equity with a double up depends on loads of factors.

bops

Q7 is +EV if you include the blinds & antes

i take it all the sissys folded every hand until the bubble bust - excellent play by him and shame on the rest of them - if it was me i'd have a shot with something half decent

wp anyways

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

kryogen

I have always hated the idea of blinding to the money, it can go very wrong for you, i understand that a cash can be important for you, but really, if i pick up a hand that i think is looking like a good spot to double up im going for it! i dont just wanna make the money, i wanna win, and if i cant do that i wanna go deep, not scrape in... i call with any reasonable hand if i was in a blind on blind situation with him really, of course the range is tighter depending on other positions, but as has been stated its highly unlikely somebody else will call behind with less the AA.

I would personally love the situation if it arose on my table as its such a great way of getting a double up as long as lady luck doesnt break your heart!!

Cuban Son

phantom_lord wrote:

stack sizes, blinds, antes, how many are left? how many shortstacks are left? how short are they? what position are u?

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

We were told during the break that the action on Lee Watkinson's table during the hand for hand period was a little unusual. Lee's table was great for him as it had 8 players with short stacks and him, sitting on nearly half a million.

So Lee decided to take over, betting 150,000 without even looking at his cards, if anyone wanted to play with him they had to call all in.

He did this every hand until we hit the money.

Is it not clear enough for you Shane?

Regardless of blinds and antes, the guy is putting you to a decision for all your chips.
I would wait to pick my spot. Forget/fcuk AA. The guy knows if you are willing to stick all your chips in that you've woken up with a hand. if he's only on 500,000 chips and he's raising nearly one third of his stack blind, he deserves to be done.
You can use this to your advantage.

Jesus Wept

There is no way to know to what degree Watkinson did this, how many hands he raised, or what the other stack sizes/his success was.

Chinese whispers ftw.

BobSloane

I remember seeing some game on youtube - all pros - where there were points or something at stake. Gus hansen went all-in blind every hand.
I remember hellmuth calling him with AJs - and losing - and Estfandiari calling with KQ - and chopping. Never saw the end of it.

a) we desperately want to make it into the money
Fold every hand.

b) we are willing to take risks because we want to cash as high as possible

Watkinson here was betting 150,000 every hand. Does this mean there was someone at the table With ~150k or even ~100k? If I was that guy I would like to think that I'd find a call with the kind of range van dice mentioned. Its a whole different ballgame if you double up and there are then two big stacks at the table. How much dead money did watkinson pick up here? He's at the FT now with ~10million

CaptainNemo

BobSloane wrote:

I remember seeing some game on youtube - all pros - where there were points or something at stake. Gus hansen went all-in blind every hand.
I remember hellmuth calling him with AJs - and losing - and Estfandiari calling with KQ - and chopping. Never saw the end of it.

I think the end of that was Hansen winning the tournament.

jimmii

It was Poker Super Stars season 1 I think maybe season 2. He had to win the heat to make it through and figured that was the best way. He won the first 26 hands or something people were folding decent aces to him during those hands not being the one to have to take him on. He went on to win the whole series not just that heat.

BuChan

it was season three of poker superstars and gus was in a must win situation elimination match, if he didn't come first he was out so he open pushed every hand in the eraly stages knowing people would fold as many of them had to finish in various positions to get the points they needed to advance. he won the match but not the entire tournament. it's somewhat similar to a bubble type situation but not really since i imagine not all the players at watkinson's table are just trying to make the money. i'd like to know how many times he actually did this, i'd be surprised if he got away with it for any length of time. if one of the players at the table had 100,000+ it was a pretty crazy play from watkinson, it will be intresting to see on tv. i'd like to think i'd have the balls to go with the Q7 or better but in the heat of the actual wsop bubble i might wait for a good A or K maybe QJ/Q10 and any pair over 55. it would be a tough situation to be in.

30something

Surely this depends on the level of MTT you are playing?
Don't forget this is the WSOP 2007 and the min payout is +$20k, that's +$10k on top of your buy-in.

If it was a Stars 180 $20 MTT then the bubble money is your buy-in plus ~50% (or whatever) - WOHOO to $25. BUT here its MASSIVE buy-in plus over 100%.

Now consider it in this context: you are down to the last 3 in a tourney where first = $50k, 2nd = $25k and 3rd = $5k - Of the 3 left you have 11bbs, other shortie has 10bbs and CL is on 200bbs. You have little or no chance of winning and are only really playing for either the $25k or the $5k - What's the "correct play" if the CL is putting you both to a decision for ALL your chips each hand? Do you:

1.Keep folding until the short stack is eliminated or has more chips then you?
2.Play ATC on the basis you want first?
3.Play any 2 reasonable cards at risk of only getting the $5k?

Answers on a post card please ....