DARTs at Clontarf Road Depot

jjbrien

I need to let off some steam. I use the Dart occassionly from Killester to Tara St a run that should only take 10-15 mins max. Nearly everytime a dart passes the depot at Clontarf Road it stops there for 10 mins beacasue the new driver has not turned up or ther standing there having a good old chat. Its really getting to me. Has anybody else experince this. Why can they change drivers at the station which is only 100m down the line.

_Kaiser_

Presumably for the same reason I've seen the 17A delayed in Ballymun.

One or other of the drivers is on their break, and rather than be made wait till they finish the route (in a similar manner to how you just wait until you're finished on that call/dealing with that customer in the private sector), Dublin Bus and its union workforce feel it's perfectly acceptable to hold up a whole busload of paying customers (not to mention the other intending passengers along the route), so the drivers aren't put out! :mad:

And this is the "Quality" service we should all be using... riiiight! :rolleyes:

MarkoP11

The change point was meant to switch to Clontarf Rd for a least the southbound services, new access paths and so on appeared but nothing ever changed. Really there can be only one issue, the unions a change would most likely result in all kinds of hassle

The worst I've experienced is over 4 minutes. What time of day are we talking about here?

Of course the staff change is not shown in the staff timetable as it should

However there have been a number of incidents where the driver pushed the door release buttons (two separate buttons together so no accident) while at the staff platform. Obviously that is a serious safety risk (think blind person, giddy childern etc) and a successful complaint to the Railway Safety Commission could force Irish Rail to change the change point to prevent such happening

jjbrien

Usually around 11am or 5pm seems like the shifts seem to change at those times. They sould be out wating for the dart but no they are never on time.

dowlingm

mobile phone/camera + youtube might = action

dodgyme

Its really annoying alright. When I was on the dart a few years back. You had the usual stopping ouside the connolly platforms waiting for a platform to become available and then the usual 5 mins chat between the drivers between connolly and clontarf. Makes your blood boil when you are in a hurry and these lads are basically deciding the timetable for the whole train. Take a few pics and put them up.Also take some pics of the lazy fecks who are always standing around outside the depot smoking and doing nothing while taking home a wage for this.

Terrontress

dodgyme wrote:

Also take some pics of the lazy fecks who are always standing around outside the depot smoking and doing nothing while taking home a wage for this.

Ah come on, everyone is entitled to a break. And they have to do it outside now they are not allowed to smoke indoors.

People having a smoke break shouldn't interfere with the smooth running of a railway.

dodgyme

When these lads go inside it should be called a work break. They seem to spend the whole day doing nothing. If you took the dart and had to wait 5 minutes while the driver has a big chat with the new driver and everytime see these lads hanging around doing nothing while you are late for your business you'd soon get p*ssed off. Anyhow why cant the drivers swap at clontarf instead of 100 yards before the platform. That way they wouldnt be delaying passangers???????????

Ham'nd'egger

dodgyme wrote:

When these lads go inside it should be called a work break. They seem to spend the whole day doing nothing. If you took the dart and had to wait 5 minutes while the driver has a big chat with the new driver and everytime see these lads hanging around doing nothing while you are late for your business you'd soon get p*ssed off. Anyhow why cant the drivers swap at clontarf instead of 100 yards before the platform. That way they wouldnt be delaying passangers???????????

The drivers may well be notifying each other of information concerning the make up of the train, this is required under Irish Rail laws to be done between guards and drivers before departure and when a crew changes over a train; I would presume that this is what is happening here. Regardless of where the changeover takes place, if the drivers are not ready to change, the train will still need to wait so it is piecemeal where it occurs. If anything, if it happens at a station, you will no doubts get passengers becrying of trains waiting 5 minutes and moving off and not waiting 6 minutes

Terrontress

dodgyme wrote:

When these lads go inside it should be called a work break. They seem to spend the whole day doing nothing. If you took the dart and had to wait 5 minutes while the driver has a big chat with the new driver and everytime see these lads hanging around doing nothing while you are late for your business you'd soon get p*ssed off. Anyhow why cant the drivers swap at clontarf instead of 100 yards before the platform. That way they wouldnt be delaying passangers???????????

The drivers talking to each other is a separate issue to the engineers and other depot staff enjoying a cigarette outside.

You may complain about them wasting time when your DART breaks down but if those guys were forced inside and not allowed to take their break, it wouldn't affect the changing times of the DART drivers.

MarkoP11

Its firmly a union issue as its a change of work practices and we know how eager the DART driver group has been to push there luck (with no success recently thankfully)

DART trains don't carry guards which means it really does take only 30 seconds do the change, yes the drivers have to confirm the train status, in reality its a case of confirming the train length

ixoy

Well I'm glad someone brought it up - I've stopped getting the train at 17:39 here because it almost always stopped at the depot to switch over drivers. This would be a near peak hour DART, full of customers and yet they couldn't be bothered to:

1) Change at nearby Clontarf Road
or
2) Switch the changeover to outside peak traffic (before 5/after 7)

Completely inexcusable behaviour that now has me purposefully leaving work later to avoid high blood pressure.

mikemac

dodgyme wrote:

Anyhow why cant the drivers swap at clontarf instead of 100 yards before the platform. That way they wouldnt be delaying passangers???????????

Often wondered that myself.
I've no doubt the unions would agree in the morning once they get a special once-off payment to "compensate" the drivers for the hardship involved in walking a few hundred metres

MarkoP11

Well at least its predicable on the southside we have the guerilla style shift changes where the train will stop between stations, normally Grand Canal Dock/Lansdowne, another train going the other way will stop 5 feet from the front of the other train, drivers swap and off you go, passengers are none the wiser

It is clearly a union issue and concession to the usual farcical claim that will follow is not acceptable to the passenger who foots the bill

As I pointed out the simplest way is to catch those (not so) rare incidents where the doors are actually unlocked at the staff platform and file a complaint with the Rail Safety Commission, as it is a safety change mandated by the safety authority any union claim is likely to be dumped by the LRC, it has happened before

lostexpectation

so why does this happen

bleeding unionsbleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions

yeah but can you explain exactly what is going on

bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unions bleeding unionsbleeding unionsbleeding unions

oh f off

Ham'nd'egger

MarkoP11 wrote:

Its firmly a union issue as its a change of work practices and we know how eager the DART driver group has been to push there luck (with no success recently thankfully)

DART trains don't carry guards which means it really does take only 30 seconds do the change, yes the drivers have to confirm the train status, in reality its a case of confirming the train length

DART doesn't have a guard as the driver has this duty to undertake as well albeit not as many as a traditional guard would have, Mark. The changeover between can take over 30 seconds on occasions dependant on circumstances; it is not always going to be a hop on hop off as it is being made out as.

jjbrien

Hamndegger wrote:

DART doesn't have a guard as the driver has this duty to undertake as well albeit not as many as a traditional guard would have, Mark. The changeover between can take over 30 seconds on occasions dependant on circumstances; it is not always going to be a hop on hop off as it is being made out as.

Ahh come on they talk about the train make up and problems for 30 seconds and then if like yesterday your sitting behind the drivers cab with the window open you hear them talking about some guys problems, football etc. they also stand thier telling jokes. I dont want to head thier jokes or about some Liverpool player. I only want them to handover the train quickly without delay. They could put a nice little drivers office at clontarf road atation where this can be done quickly.

I lived in Toronto for a year and the dirvers on the subway usually only took 30 seconds to hand thier trains over.

dowlingm

jj

In fairness, Toronto subway cars have a driver and a mid-train guard. It's not single crew. The TTC couldn't even automate the SRT which Vancouver manages to run on auto with a train guard!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_subway_and_RT

jjbrien

dowlingm wrote:

jj

In fairness, Toronto subway cars have a driver and a mid-train guard. It's not single crew. The TTC couldn't even automate the SRT which Vancouver manages to run on auto with a train guard!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_subway_and_RT

but its still a much betterrun service than the dart. there is no messing with it or drivers stoping when another train aproaches to chat to the other driver. Unlike here they always talking and holding everyone up at the depot or Connolly.

Jonny Arson

Hamndegger wrote:

The drivers may well be notifying each other of information concerning the make up of the train, this is required under Irish Rail laws to be done between guards and drivers before departure and when a crew changes over a train; I would presume that this is what is happening here.

on at least two occasions i have sat at the very top of the front carriage while it is stationary at the Clontarf changeover and i have heard the drivers spending 2/3 minutes yapping about the weather, football or whatever you can think of..... on one these occasions the train was already running late!!

MarkoP11

Last time I was through Clontarf where a staff change happened

Train rolls up stops, drivers change and the only exchange was to confirm the train length. Thats how it should work

How it shouldn't work is when you pull in driver walks off and 5 minutes later the next driver appears, now the safety implications of leaving train with possibly 1400 people unattended aside. There are no excuses the driver is meant to be present before the train arrives and the rosters are such that a driver is required to be present well before the train arrives