Eddies's after WC

quagmire69

that should say eddie's position after WC.

I was just wondering what other people out there think would be a successful world cup for us?

IMO, if we fail to reach the semi-final at least, i would like to see a new head coach for next season.

I think with our current squad of players, there is no excuse not to get that far. I know injuries could be a huge factor, o'gara an example and one could say thats not the coach's fault but i think it's eddie's fault we are going into the WC with only one proven out half.

I'm very dissapointed with how eddie handled o'driscoll's absence in the france match and believe it cost us the match and thus the 6 nations.

Any other views out there?
What is the minimum result eddie should achieve to retain his job?

zAbbo

will he want it ?

He'll be lions coach in 2009

remus808

Lion's coach? Wow..

Personally I don't know about his proficieincy or lack of it, but I agree that we need to reach at least the semi-final to consider it a successful world cup. Going out to NZ in the quarters would be no achievment at all- we'd only have proven ourselves better than Argentina, Georgia and Namibia :rolleyes: ... We need to make a statment! Beating NZ and then losing to Aus in the Semi's would have a sort of poetic beauty to it. I could live with that.

[Jackass]

Well don't worry about NZ, we can take the group, then Scots (afaik) in the quarters, that should be our first aim and is well withing our grasp...then, once you're in the semi-finals of a world cup, I think this Irish side can beat any team in the world on their day.

I believe we are capable of winning the world cup, but I just feel a bit shakey about Irelands big game record in the past. We have bottled a lot in the past when it really matters and has cost us a couple of grand slams in recent years.

Just hope we do well in this world cup...if sucsess = progress, then nothing less than a semi-final will do.

Sandwich

For me its certainly our best team ever to send to the WC. But its also the one where we are most likely to go home after the group stages.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

nedward

Is he not gonna hit the road with the Bull and a few more after the World Cup? I was almost sure I heard something like that...possibly connected with Lions job.

Scobius90

Yup IMHO EO'S will depart (for the Lions job) after the 6N regardless of results in RWC. He is smart enough to realise that a lot of his frontline players will also be going and he won't want to be caught out like Woodward and his predecessors.
The big Q is who will replace him and will it be a poisoned chalice?

Linford

There are only two acceptable results, win/lose in the final and after watching All Blacks last weekend, there may only be one acceptable result...

MikeHoncho

He is not going anywhere no matter what happens in the world cup. Even if he is appointed Lions coach he wont have to leave the Ireland post just yet. Come the next 6 nations Eddie will still be in charge.

Pride Fighter

He deserves the job for life. He has been instrumental in our renaissance of the past couple of years. Only being eliminated in the group stages is what should get him sacked.

marco_polo

quagmire69 wrote:

that should say eddie's position after WC.

I was just wondering what other people out there think would be a successful world cup for us?

IMO, if we fail to reach the semi-final at least, i would like to see a new head coach for next season.

I think with our current squad of players, there is no excuse not to get that far. I know injuries could be a huge factor, o'gara an example and one could say thats not the coach's fault but i think it's eddie's fault we are going into the WC with only one proven out half.

I'm very dissapointed with how eddie handled o'driscoll's absence in the france match and believe it cost us the match and thus the 6 nations.

Any other views out there?
What is the minimum result eddie should achieve to retain his job?

To be fair to Eddie given the group / knockout draw with the toughest pool and runner up QF, there would be no disgrace in a QF exit to the ABs. Of course such a scenario would not be considered a successful world cup by Eddie or any the players but it could hardly be a sackable offence in all fairness. Draw in any other group then I think the semi final would be the minimum acceptable target.

Gonna be tough as hell but I think that we have the ability to top the group, which would make the semi final a gimme. Anything after that would be a bonus.

If we did get the ABs in the quarters I wouldn't rule us out either, I think we would give them a bloody good game of it.

Pool stage knock out? Bye bye eddie.

quagmire69

Pride Fighter wrote:

He deserves the job for life. He has been instrumental in our renaissance of the past couple of years. Only being eliminated in the group stages is what should get him sacked.

I would have to disagree there to some extent, there is no way he can have the job for life. I think he has done a good job but the lack of a grand slam, six nations or an away southern hemisphere win are huge problems in my opinion.

His refusal to try out new players in key positions is crippling to the team. One or two injuries and we're screwed to put it lightly.

Diamondmaker

Can someone suggest a suitable replacement before planning his departure?

damnyanks

Brian Kerr

Pride Fighter

Vinnie Jones. He was a great coach in mean machine:D

[Jackass]

Thankfully the IRFU and FAI are two very different organisations...or it'd probably be Simon Geoaghan. After all...he was a good player and he coached the St.Mary's college U-15's for 3 months in 1991. Fairly impressive credentials.

nedward

Kidney?

zAbbo

nedward wrote:

Kidney?

No bloody way, whoever is going to be given the role, should be drafted in now to work alongside Eddie, and Kidney is not that man, wasn't he already the bridesmaid ?

il gatto

I think he'll want one more crack at the grand Slam. If Ireland win it, then I suppose he may stay put for another while.
As far as a replacement goes, I can't really think of anyone near his standard in the country.

GreenHell

Your probably right il gatto, to be honest I think EOS has taken this crop of players as far as he can and we're looking at a few years rebuilding after this WC and more likely after the fallowing 6N.

Doubt Kidney would get the job after pissing off the Leinster heads.

Snickers Man

First things first. The Irish rugby team of the 21st century has been the most consistent and best team in our history. Despite failing to win a Championship, we have never lost more than two games in a 6N season, we have beaten S Africa and Australia twice and ALL our record margins of victory, with two exceptions, against major international teams have been set or equalled since 2000.

The exceptions are New Zealand, who we have never beaten although we drew against them once, and France, against whom our record victory was recorded before the First World War at a time when France were roughly comparable to what Italy are now, only not as good.

For a country whose overall win ratio in internationals is only 40% that (67% in 6N) is an exceptional performance.

It's not all down to Eddie: Gatland was in charge for the first few years and the talent has been exceptional as well, but he has held things together well.

His major black marks are:

Not paying enough attention to reserves, especially at out half. If O'Gara gets crocked we will struggle to get out of our group. Wallace isn't so bad a player that he should be restricted to so little game time as he has. Persisting with a hope that Humphreys at 35 is going to come out of retirement is silly.

Following on from this is his reluctance to rotate players for "lesser" matches. Four years ago, that contributed to our tame elimination because the players were thrashed, having played four matches, including two really tough ones on consecutive weekends just to get out of the group.

We will have a similar situation this time round: France followed by Argentina. We will have to have our front ranked players on for both of those. A narrow defeat to France would leave the boys with a mountain to climb against Argentina followed, if successful, by a Q final against the Blacks.

A fit and fresh Irish first team could surprise the Blacks: a thrashed and bruised Irish first team will get hockeyed.

So will Eddie be the ultimate cute Cork hoor and rest key players, especially in the pack, for the game against France? ie throw it in order to have a real crack at the All Blacks?

Wouldn't surprise me.

redmca

Snickers Man wrote:

We will have a similar situation this time round: France followed by Argentina. We will have to have our front ranked players on for both of those. A narrow defeat to France would leave the boys with a mountain to climb against Argentina followed, if successful, by a Q final against the Blacks.

A fit and fresh Irish first team could surprise the Blacks: a thrashed and bruised Irish first team will get hockeyed.

So will Eddie be the ultimate cute Cork hoor and rest key players, especially in the pack, for the game against France? ie throw it in order to have a real crack at the All Blacks?

Wouldn't surprise me.

I DISAGREE
The best strategy for EOS and the team is to win ALL our pool matches. We are 100% dead if we have to face the ABs in Cardiff whatever state the team is in (and I have tickets for Cardiff by the way!!).

After the 6N at Croke Park (with BOD missing), we know we can beat the French. Remember they will the team under real pressure when we play them.
Similarly, I have no doubt we can see off Argentina.

Then we are into a soft QF against Scotland or Italy, and then who knows !!

Certainly it would be timely for EOS to pack the job in once our WC ends.

Sangre

Snickers Man wrote:

So will Eddie be the ultimate cute Cork hoor and rest key players, especially in the pack, for the game against France? ie throw it in order to have a real crack at the All Blacks?

Wouldn't surprise me.

Resting key players in France in order to come second but still fit is probably the one thing that will guarantee Eddie not staying on as Ireland coach.

marco_polo

Why would you turn down the chance to play Scotland/ Italy in the quarter finals and possibly making the semis at least?

EOS would never do that, because I am sure he is confident we can beat France. What sort of message would it send to the squad, by picking a B team he would be saying I don't believe you can beat France.

How could he stand in the dressing room two weeks later and try to convince them that they could beat the All Blacks?

GreenHell

We are more than capable of winning our group and I will we gutted if we don't stick it to the french.

Snickers Man

GreenHell wrote:

We are more than capable of winning our group and I will we gutted if we don't stick it to the french.

Suggest you invest in a puke bag then.

I'm not being smart. Irish wins in France are as rare as hen's teeth. It has only happened twice in my lifetime. And I bet only once in the life time of many posting here.

The worst possible scenario would be the team busting themselves to try and beat the French and losing out by a narrow margin. Then the team would have to pick themselves up for another almost as tough match against Argentina. (We've never beaten them in France either, remember!!!)

After those two bruising matches we would have to go to Cardiff for a ritual slaughter at the hands of the All Blacks.

On the other hand, a fit and focussed first team could really take it to the Blacks. It's something no Irish team has ever done before: beat New Zealand in an international.

Just saying.

redmca

The idea of easing off against the French is suicide.
The French match is our mini-final. It's our key to the semi-final.

Besides, the idea of not giving all our group matches 100% holds up the prospect of us not making it out of our group at all !!!

Stev_o

Well im not expecting much from us in this world cup. We have two teams which haunt us dearly. Forget New Zealand SA and Wallabies we need to be focused to beat the French who on home soil are bound to not to go down easily and Argentina who we have shared the biggest rivalry in the world cup.

Eddies real downfall is that he is VERY tunnel visioned, he rarely looks outside Ireland for players when there are vast amounts to tap into. Leciester, London Irish etc etc.

To be honest im bracing myself for the coming of the dark ages again of Irish rugby it wont be long for our current stars to start running out of gas considering most are in their late 20's and after seeing the Ireland U-19 get destroyed by in the U19 RWC i only pray that players shoved into Ireland A can give us something to look forward to. [IF anyone says "Well we have Luke Fitzgerald" you have to some mental problems he's ****e there was all talk and no delivery]

Sangre

Ireland got the u20s grandslam this year.

Diamondmaker

Snickers Man wrote:

On the other hand, a fit and focussed first team could really take it to the Blacks. Just saying.

Although I disagree in principal that we may rest players to have a better crack at the ABs.

I also feel that the team and public would not stand for this......

......However, we possibly have a better chance winning, with a fit team, an under pressure ABs, in a packed out ALL GREEN (a la Munster Final ) Cardiff - "home game" against he ABs.... (given how close we pushed them twice away) than winning BOTH the FR and ARG games to get to a Scottish QF!

Its not at all likely IMO though that this approach would be taken....how would we even go about approaching the selection for this tactic and what risk of losing BOTH Fr and ARg matches with this HIGH risk tactic / selecion gamble.

No it wont happen!

komodosp

I was just wondering what other people out there think would be a successful world cup for us?

I would say a failure would be failing to get out of the pool stage... But anything after that, to say if we don't get to the semi is failure depends on the context really...

I mean if we meet NZ in the quarter and lose, I wouldn't call it any more of a failure than beating Scotland in the quarter, and losing the semi... you know what I mean, anything can happen in the KO, and if you are going to say not reaching the semi is a failure then I would say, not winning the WC is a failure.

Indeed if we get to the semi, I will be pissed off if we lose it... And if we get to the final, I'll be pissed off if we lose that...

quagmire69

komodosp wrote:

I would say a failure would be failing to get out of the pool stage... But anything after that, to say if we don't get to the semi is failure depends on the context really...

I mean if we meet NZ in the quarter and lose, I wouldn't call it any more of a failure than beating Scotland in the quarter, and losing the semi... you know what I mean, anything can happen in the KO, and if you are going to say not reaching the semi is a failure then I would say, not winning the WC is a failure.

Indeed if we get to the semi, I will be pissed off if we lose it... And if we get to the final, I'll be pissed off if we lose that...

thats fair enough, but i think with a fully fit team, we should beat NZ on a neutral ground if eddie picks right team. post tri nations, nz look VERY beatable to me. We should cut them up in the middle as their centres are suspect.
Dan carter not lookin too hot at the moment either.

neil best has to start.

I enjoy men.

^^

Sangre posting under my username thinking he's VERY FUNNY

chicoben

We're not gonna lose to France...cause im gonna be at that game and im not going all the way over there to lose. I doubt he'll play the first team for the lesser matches, he'll prob play half and half. whats the chances of the argies putting a suprise defeat over france and us and the argies going through?

remus808

chicoben wrote:

whats the chances of the argies putting a suprise defeat over france and us and the argies going through?

Slim to none.

And I must say the plan of laying an ambush for the AB's sounds like a good 'un... Knocking the AB's out of the World Cup would be a ridiculously amazing achievment. And a very doable one at that if the right steps are taken. Interesssting...

Stev_o

karmabass wrote:

And I must say the plan of laying an ambush for the AB's sounds like a good 'un... Knocking the AB's out of the World Cup would be a ridiculously amazing achievment. And a very doable one at that if the right steps are taken. Interesssting...

True we all have seen it is doable and this Irish team can do it with the talent we have as long as we play smart rugby and decided to just hand the AB possession, the only doubt's i have that if you look back to previous World Cups teams that have pulled out victories like that such as France in 1999 for example tend to run out of steam afterwards, they play their best rugby to date and then just crumble the next round and its happens loads through the years.

As for Pumas beating France bah not likely, opening match against the host in a stadium filled with French supporters the odds are stacked against them though they could do as they do have the players.

I worry playing against the Pumas to be honest since we have a very VERY big rivalry with them since Lens to the present day and they wont want to go out of the RWC at the hands of us....again

damnyanks

I do remember that behind the scenes show that the irish players looked pissed when they saw the french try. Even if a weakened side went out I reckon they'd be very much up for the game.

If they could do it or not is another story

Trojan

Holding back against France, after Croke Park?

It's more likely we'll have SCW as coach for the next 6N (my pick).

Sangre

This thread is ridiculous. Do people actually think it will be easier to beat NZ than France? Thats what we are talking about. You may say we rarely beat France away but we've never beaten NZ. Remember we still have to beat the Argies to even get to a quarter final with NZ, they are a good side and I'd never give them a chance like putting out a weakened team. An Argie game is not one you come out of without bruises.

nacho libre

karmabass wrote:

Slim to none.

And I must say the plan of laying an ambush for the AB's sounds like a good 'un... Knocking the AB's out of the World Cup would be a ridiculously amazing achievment. And a very doable one at that if the right steps are taken. Interesssting...

There is a good chance Argentina will beat France. Ireland have no chance of beating New Zeland. I believe an injury will rule out at least one key player before the showdown with New Zealand. I will be pleasantly suprised if the team is injury-free after the Argentina and France matches
Even with a full-strength team i doubt Ireland could beat New Zealand to be honest.