Stay or go?

LegacyUser

I really need some objective opinions on this, advice, criticism, whatever.

I have been with my boyfriend for just over 3 years now, mainly long-distance but still, 3 great years. We lived together for a while and have managed to see each other very regularly.

For a while now, he has felt more like a friend than a boyfriend. I have zero desire for sex with him, apart from when I’ve had a few drinks, and I just feel like something is missing – the passion, the spark, the butterflies, whatever you want to call it. And this really shouldn’t be the case in a long distance relationship. I should be all over him whenever I see him, right? I am finding myself attracted to other guys (well, one in particular but that is a whole other story – no, I haven’t cheated on him and I am not going to).

Is this normal? Is this just a part of long term relationships and something I will get over? Because I am so confused – he is the most amazing guy. Kind, funny, intelligent, he is my best friend and I can’t imagine my life without him. But if am really in love with him, shouldn’t I want to have sex? And I know I shouldn’t be this attracted to other guys.

I don’t want to break up with him and find out it was just a phase. Perhaps it is just the long-distance that is making me feel like this, but again I don’t want to move in together somewhere and find out, nope it wasn’t just a phase, it really is over.

I thought I would just wait it out and hope the feelings would become clear, but the more I wait and the more I think about it, the more confused I become. I don't want to hurt him, ever, but obviously none of this is fair on him. So, could it be a phase?

azezil

As relationships go on there is a time when you'll start to loose the "warm fuzzy" feelings alright, the excitement passes but its replaced with love.

As for sex, the less you have the less you'll want it... just masturbate more, then when you see him you'll be horny as hell!

unregd147

azezil wrote:

As relationships go on there is a time when you'll start to loose the "warm fuzzy" feelings alright, the excitement passes but its replaced with love.

As for sex, the less you have the less you'll want it... just masturbate more, then when you see him you'll be horny as hell!

Did you miss the part where she said:
"I have zero desire for sex with him"
"I am finding myself attracted to other guys"
OP: It sounds very much like your relationships over, its not a phase. You basically have a guy lined up to replace your bf, be fair to your bf and break up with him.

MrBaseball

I don't know if it's a phase, but I think this is definitely one of the problems with long distance relationships. You get these doubts and then you don't have enough time with the person to be able to judge whether or not they're justified. 3 years is a long time but it seems to me like the lack of attraction can only be a bad thing and unlikely to just do a u-turn.
The whole "feels like a friend and not a boyfriend" thing is something I think happens fairly easily in long distance relationships, because to be honest, most of the time, you probably are more like friends, just having chats together, with no physical intimacy.

Also, I think the poster above is onto something. It seems to me, that this relationship, like a lot of long distance relationships, has simply become a comfort blanket to you, something which you see as being better than being alone. You've alluded to this one particular guy you're attracted to. It seems that you're preparing to jump ship once you know you have a green light, despite what you say about not cheating. You may not cheat, but you may well stay in your relationship until you can comfortably transition into another one.

challengemaster

why dont you talk about it with him and maybe try re-kindle that special spark?

Beau*

OP I know what you're on about, and quite honestly all you can do is break up with him. You're losing interest in him and starting to feel attracted to other guys; you might be able to save the relationship but I think it's a lost cause.

unregd147 is right, you basically have a guy lined up to replace your boyfriend because you're seeing certain qualities that you now desire in him.

So yeah, I say be fair and break up.

jellie

Think about how you would feel if it was the other way around.

If your bf wasnt attracted to you, was thinking about other girls, and saw you more as a friend than a gf, would you want him to stay with you?

Maybe discuss it with him. I would leave out the bit about the other guy though.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the advice, I agree with most of what has been said.

Just to clarify, I am attracted to this other guy but I don't believe it is anything too serious, and may just be me distracting myself from these other issues. There is no question of anything happening with this guy, of that I am certain.

To be honest, I find the thought of being alone scary so there is alot of validity in the 'safety blanket' statement. I also don't want to break off possibly the best thing that has happened to me, and realise it was a terrible mistake. Basically, I have absolutely no idea how I feel.

BoozyBabe

Beau* wrote:

OP I know what you're on about, and quite honestly all you can do is break up with him. You're losing interest in him and starting to feel attracted to other guys; you might be able to save the relationship but I think it's a lost cause.

unregd147 is right, you basically have a guy lined up to replace your boyfriend because you're seeing certain qualities that you now desire in him.

So yeah, I say be fair and break up.

Have to agree.
I was in you position a few years ago.
Going out with wonderful guy for 5 years. Lived together, but seemed liked best friends. I didn't want sex.
I was also interested in another guy, but never cheated.

That was about 3-3.5 years into the relationship. I let it linger on, in case it was a phase. It wasn't.

After 5 years I got the courage & I ended it.

Best thing I've ever done.

Myself & the guy I fancied started dating & have now been going out nearly 2 years. He's to hold on tight to his clothes every time I see him in case I rip them off. I'm absolutely crazy about him, in every way, including mad to have sex with him.
We've just started the building process of our home & our future lives together.

I have never looked back, it was definitely the right decision for me.

I loved the ex dearly & breaking up with him was very very difficult & took a lot of courage.

But, at the back of my mind I knew it was the right thing to do.

What's at the back of your mind, cos that's where the answer lies?
Gut instincts are never wrong.

Best of luck

LegacyUser

wow boozybabe, I didn't know people could still be that mad about each other after 2 years! That has certainly made me think, thank you. Sounds like you were very brave indeed.

Maple

what does your gut instinct tell you? I can imagine your head must in a complete state but we all get those moments of intuition where we just KNOW what we have to do.

Long distance is really hard, you only get a short time with your partner so the onus is on you to enjoy yourself, have passionate sex, not to discuss any pressing issues in the relationship as you don't want to dampen the mood and spoil the short time you have together.

Talk about it with your partner, don't keep it all in your own head. These things can morph and grow until you can't see the wood for the trees.

Wibbs

Long winded post here(makes a change:D ), based on what I've observed about long term relationships and how they break up. It's only my opinion and it is by necessity a generalisation and a lot of it from one perspective, so bear that in mind before jumpin down my throat.:o

Every relationship goes through and goes beyond the honeymoon stage where if you're lucky a greater stronger, more deep love grows out from it. All too often people bail right at that point, rather than work on it. They often think they work on it, but in my experience they don't. Sometimes they're looking for the novelty of new passion, mostly it's more serious than that.

In my experience both with me and friends of both genders, this usually happens at the 2/2.5 year stage* and it's usually the woman who bails. Not always but usually. Often it's because the woman decides(or her "gut"** tells her) that the man isn't "future" material and starts looking at men that may be. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but something has changed. They give out hints about this long before it gets to this stage too. Most men don't see them and get a big shock when it happens(I did when it happened to me once). Basically they've "left" the relationship long before the bloke finds out. They're not cheating either, just not really with the current guy.

I've seen blokes rant, "but it was out of the blue!" It rarely is. Once that happens it's very hard for the relationship to come back from it, unless the man actively changes and becomes a better "future" prospect than other men around. This is usually the reason why people get back with longterm exes, even after going off with others. It even seems to be more likely to happen if one or both get into a rebound relationship. They get space apart and may miss each other. The grass may not be greener and usually isn't, except in the early stages and if the original guy gets his act together then it can work. Generally works better second time around if both have learned the lessons. It's not that rare, but it's not that common either, basically because the guy either doesn't get his act together or it's too late and both have moved on or simply the deep love and intimacy wasn't really there in the first place. Usually the guy starts begging to get back in the saddle(bad plan), but they don't address the real issues give the woman space, demonstrate the changes rather than promise to change. Not doing that makes the woman's decision all the more logical.

Now I'm saying the guy here, because speaking as one and in my experience it's usually the guys fault for not seeing the signs and thinking of a future for both of them. They take the other person for granted and get a big shock when it splits. Again I've done that. I've taken women for granted and got lazy. I helped them, nurtured them and did lots for them, but I was thinking of the here and now and not where it might be going and aiming my plans in that direction. Bad plan. In retrospect they were right to dump me. I've been the one doing the dumping too and it was usually for the same or similar reasons. I didn't see a future with them, they took me for granted and they got lazy.

It's not the sex per se either. That's usually a big hint for any guy in a longtermer though. If the GF is suddenly less up for it than before. Bad sign. I don't mean the gradual tapering off of passion either. It's more abrupt. The "spark" for her is gone. Now if you look at this logically the spark was there at the start in most cases. In most cases they were mad for each other. At the start. Something happens beyond familiarity that changes that to make them break up. Very few people go into a long term relationship thinking it will end.

Is this the case with the OP? Does your current relationship not satisfy in the other ways, excluding the sex? Forget friendship. That's nice but not the issue. Do you see a future with this guy? Can you imagine having and building a life with this guy? If the answer is no then that's were the spark went I would say. Is it possible to get it back? Yes but it needs work, mainly from him in the areas you need. You have to sit him down and tell him, I mean tell him, not hint, what is really getting to you. You may not really know yourself, so a bit of thinking on your part may be needed. You would have to stick around to see if that would change. Difficult, but doable. The rewards can be great if you manage it though.

BoozyBabe wrote:

That was about 3-3.5 years into the relationship. I let it linger on, in case it was a phase. It wasn't.

Ok and fair enough to you because you hung around to see if that would change. Gave it another two years in fairness.

Myself & the guy I fancied started dating & have now been going out nearly 2 years.../..I'm absolutely crazy about him, in every way, including mad to have sex with him.
We've just started the building process of our home & our future lives together.

So you're with the new guy only two years? Have you lived with him for the same length of time as the ex? What happens if the passion dies off? I mean you were with the ex for 3/3.5years before that happened. If I had asked you 2 years into the original relationship was the spark gone, how would you have answered? The fact is at this stage you don't know. You may think you know, but your don't. It will probably work out, don't get me wrong, but it could do either way still. The future lives bit probably means you two are ok though(see above)

Gut instincts are never wrong.

Yes they are. All of the time. If they weren't the divorce rate wouldn't be so high.

*It's rarely more than 4 years. It depends on how much they see each other. It can happen a lot quicker if they see each other every day.

** BTW No offence meant on that either. It's just a different way of making a decision. Just as "logical", if not as obvious as the often male credit/debit balance sheet method.

Amy- Cayx

soconfused: similar sit. happened to me last year, at the time i fancied someone else so i broke up with my bf coz i figured i couldnt love him if i felt that way about someone else and we were fighting alot at the time.
so i broke up with him. we stayed friends, kind of. and it lasted four weeks.
while we were apart, i realised what a big part of my life he played. id never noticed it when we were going out but all of the little things, like texting him with little quips or just having someone to vent to when your pissed off who will be on your side. plus i found that i was more attracted to him, trying not to touch him while we were watching a film or just having coffee or walking or something. finally i decided that i must love him, that he must be best for me if i was so compelled to see him all the time and when we got back together, it was like the start of the relationship all over again : great sex, constantly touching, arms round each other, sneaking off places to kiss and stuff.

give it a few weeks, it might be that your just feeling crowded or that you've settled into complacency. a good scare never hurt anyone. would you consider going on a break? or even a secret break?

Wibbs

Amy- Cayx has a good point. I've known a fair few people who split from an important long termer only to regret it later when it was too late and it can be too late for some. BoozyBabe for example did give it her all and then made the right decision. That IMHO is the right way to go about these things in general.

Amy- Cayx

fortunatly it wasnt too late for me, i knew my bf was still into me (he called me a few times asking me to get back with him). i was annoyed about it at first but he accepted me back no questions when i came crawling and told him i still loved him and made a mistake.

LegacyUser

Wibbs made some good points.
A few thoughts from the other side...

I've seen two friends of mine walk from 4 and 5 year relationships because they thought the 'spark' was gone, only to find themselves seriously regretting their decision later.
Relationships change, people change, sex drive changes!
I really believe a lot of people just aren't willing to make the effort, and instead of putting the work into their current relationship would rather tell themselves they're better off out of it completely.
In a society like ours now, there will always be the search for something 'better'.
There'll always be a younger, funnier, more handsome, richer guy/girl out there. Thing is, will this newer model be right for you?

I look at my parents, who've been married 35 years and I know they had tough times. But as my mum says, you have to work at it and roll with the punches. You have to work for anything worth having.

Of course if you really believe your relationship has run its course, then it's only fair to finish it. But maybe list all the positive things and then the negative things about your relationship before you do that.

Wibbs

Jenay wrote:

I've seen two friends of mine walk from 4 and 5 year relationships because they thought the 'spark' was gone, only to find themselves seriously regretting their decision later..

I've seen it quite a few times.

I really believe a lot of people just aren't willing to make the effort, and instead of putting the work into their current relationship would rather tell themselves they're better off out of it completely.
In a society like ours now, there will always be the search for something 'better'.
There'll always be a younger, funnier, more handsome, richer guy/girl out there. Thing is, will this newer model be right for you?

I agree quite a bit with that. The "I want it now, I want it good and easy all the time" idea. That's good, indeed very useful at 18, but later, not so much. Boozybabes handling of her situation and the fact she put the work in was a good way to handle her situation. She made the effort so her relationships are likely to turn out good.

You have to work for anything worth having.

Never a truer word spoken.

Of course if you really believe your relationship has run its course, then it's only fair to finish it. But maybe list all the positive things and then the negative things about your relationship before you do that

Exactly. The only thing I would add is that too many rely on their "gut" feelings on this and writing up a list in your head ain't gonna cut it. While gut instinct should be listened to, applying thought beyond that should be equally listened to.

Marksie

Wibbs made some excellent points there. He is right though, looking back, all the signs would been there to see. Nothing ever comes out of the blue.

He also made some good points on what you should be asking yourself so no need to rehash a very good post. I will just add on a thought or two:

If I read alright you lived together for a while and then went to long distance. Do you think that may have had something to do with it?
Either from the aspect of, we were together getting settled wanting to go further and now we are apart am feeling unsettled again? or we were together getting settled so i know what its like and now we are apart I am not sure i want it?

Amy-cayx has made excellent points. Those little things, the texts, the venting, the sheer fact you can sit or lie in silence. All are indications of a deeper level of undesrtanding. Yes, that first rush of serotonin in a realtionship hitting you then fading as its replaced by something deeper.

It is so common for relationships to take this turn and certainly if the attraction is gone its gone, but you don't really know that do you, for sure? Boozybabe didn't and went on to make sure.

A lot of people think that where i come from is a "mystical" perspective, to some extent it is, but the vast majority of it is grounded in solid basic principles of re-establishing that connection with your partner. Re-discovering that connection to yourself and overcoming the inertia and complacency that sets in to long term relationships. Learning to look again at the person you are with "new" eyes, rediscovering what it was you found so damned horny about them in the first place.
Then after two years, or even six years or 20 years, you can still ignite that spark into a raging fire.

Worth exploring before you break up.
I thin you are right though about the other guy TBH, you are simply projecting onto him.

EdiT: I was sat here thinking and, before anyone gives me a rolleyes or yeah right. It may be best if i give a simple illustrative example of what i am talking about.
When couples first begin dating, the phrase, we couldn't stop touching each other or we were always looking at each other is so very common.
One very simple, basic process, or execrise if you like in a formal setting is to just sit quietly just looking at each others eyes and face, juts quietly and openly, with no thoughts intruding. You begin to rediscover that felling you got in the first place. Its usually combined with a situation where you gently touch each part of your partner and simply say you honour that part of them. then the process is reversed and they do it to you. Action and reaction. Simple, but direct. OK it may be applid in a "formal" setting, but the principle of reconnecting is there.

LOL, you can rolleyes away now

sweet-rasmus

sounds like you've fallen out of love with him. i've never heard of this occurring as a phase... it's probably the worry of being alone holding you back, as you said, but that's not a good enough reason to toy with his heart. plus, you finding yourself attracted to other guys more and more is a sure sign that you want out of the relationship. best of luck with whatever you choose

Amy- Cayx

on rereading the original post, i think the fact that you dont want to have sex might be an inidicator that you need to spend more time with the person. if there was sex drive before, there can be sex drive again. distance can dull passion but it can also heighten it.

Lord Nikon

The fact that it's a long term relationship would suggest the intimatcy part is few and far between. The reason for the breakdown in intimacy is the fact that you didn't have it much, so you weren't missing much.

If you want this relationship to go further, i suggest you start spending time with each other, not just a weekend here an there, but having a proper relationship.

If you spend time together and have the normal ups and downs that any relationship has, you both will want to make up after fighting. I feel that at the moment there is no fighting and everything is just dandy, that's nice, but there is nothing to work on together.

Intimacy is a part of every relationship, that's exactly what I think your missing, you need to bring that back by spending time together, and not getting a chance to look/lust after other men.

Wibbs

sweet-rasmus wrote:

sounds like you've fallen out of love with him. i've never heard of this occurring as a phase...

Yes but all too often people use the term "falling out of love" with someone as a lazy catch all for other issues going on. What usually happens is people fall out of being in love. there's a big difference. If you hope that a long term relationship is always going to be like the first phase you're in for major disappointment. The second phase is far deeper and stronger than the first, but it's different and that transition is where most couples fail. basically because it needs work on both sides and you don't see that stuff in movies or written in Valentine's cards.

it's probably the worry of being alone holding you back,

Very common.

plus, you finding yourself attracted to other guys more and more is a sure sign that you want out of the relationship.

Only if you've never reached the more matured part of a relationship. It doesn't always mean that just because you're looking at others it means it's over. Some people view relationships in a overly romantic fashion and are very sensitive to the first chink in the armour. It's like the first scratch on a new car sends some into a meltdown. Put it this way in a longterm relationship, I would be more worried in some ways if my partner wasn't looking at others from time to time. Would keep me on my toes if nothing else.

Amy- Cayx

thought of something today while i was at work, the growing view of your boyfriend as just a friend may be one of the signs of the deeper, second stage of the relationship that Wibbs talks about above. its likely specially if you were never friends with your boyfriend first, that you're just getting to know him on a friendship level now, where before it was all kisses and compliments. it could signal a broadening of the relationship.

Kell

Wibbs wrote:

Yes they are. All of the time. If they weren't the divorce rate wouldn't be so high.

Have to disagree with you there. Totally. Your gut is never wrong- its your protection mechanism. What you do with the advice it gives you is a different story, so rather than blame the gut, blame the flawed logic that brought the person to the wrong conclusion.

The OP shouldnt be swayed by new bloke at all. He should not be a reason to get out of the relationship. Staying in the relationship because of the comfort blanket is the worst reason to stay in the relationship too. Imagine the hurt if your partner came up to one day and said "I should have ended it three years ago, but hey, it was comfy. Adios". You'd go stick your head in the oven.

What I see that the OP should do is end it and give herself some head space.

Feelings, as opposed to gut, are oft born of the wrong reasons. Loadsa people go "ooh, I really regret breaking up with that person because they were really brill" when in fact they should be saying "I am a total needy príck who cant stand on my own two feet, therefore I miss the person I just split with".

OP- its a really shít deal to your boyfriend that you are staying in it because it is comfy. Do him a favour and grow a spine and move on with your life and let him get on with his. Somewhere I can see a guy typing that he hasnt had sex with his GF in months and that she is only into it when she is drunk and that he feels like he's been dumped without being told he has. All over bar the shouting I think the term is.

Now have a good think about that last bit. You can leave him roasting on the spit of limbo land or, as I said, grow a spine and make the move.

Wibbs wrote:

unless the man actively changes and becomes a better "future" prospect than other men around. This is usually the reason why people get back with longterm exes, even after going off with others.

Does that mean that you condone that course of action i.e. one partner changing themselves to suit the other in order to maintain the relationship? That just says to me that they werent compatible in the first place.

Thing is, most of us are too petrified senseless to be on our own, so rather than waiting it out for Messrs right, we settle for the wrong relationship in order to save us from the perceived frozen tundra that is being single. If people actually had a spine and said "you know what, I am bigger than being petrified of being alone and you really dont suit me at all right now" at the beginning, rather than the middle or the end, there would be a hell of a lot more functional relationships. How many people do we all know who "wake up" in a relationship one morning as opposed to pondering whether they wanted to be there or not? Shed loads.

Look at all the fúckwits who project their insecurities onto their partners to the point where the innocent one thinks they have to change to be "marketable material". Fúck that.

Anyway. I think, Mr. Wibbs, that you were making an observation so I shall resist the urge to tear you a new ársehóle such is my disapproval of what may or may not be your ACTUAL opinion. (God damn. Big brother has gone and switched off the smilies. Bah.)

K-

Wibbs

Kell wrote:

Have to disagree with you there. Totally. Your gut is never wrong- its your protection mechanism. What you do with the advice it gives you is a different story, so rather than blame the gut, blame the flawed logic that brought the person to the wrong conclusion.

A rare one here for me regarding one of your posts, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Gut feelings are a combination of.. sod that we know what gut feelings are and at the end of the day they're fallible. Fact. I've seen people throw away relationships, jobs life choices etc all on "gut" feelings and live to regret it often for damn good reasons. Any feeling like this that one can't rationalise with the situation is hardly a basis for action. At least not the only basis.

The OP shouldnt be swayed by new bloke at all. He should not be a reason to get out of the relationship. Staying in the relationship because of the comfort blanket is the worst reason to stay in the relationship too.

Agreed and agreed.

Imagine the hurt if your partner came up to one day and said "I should have ended it three years ago, but hey, it was comfy. Adios"

Quite common too.

What I see that the OP should do is end it and give herself some head space.

Head space yes, end it, why? Give it time at least. Not everything is so black and white. So they hit a rough patch, a change in the relationship and the solution is to bugger off? Hardly mature. What happens if they got married, a couple of kids in the scenario? Hit a rough patch, something that at least warrants effort , but no they bugger off. Plenty of fish etc. Hardly. No you might counter with "well they're not married" and that's true, but learning to work through things like this, even if it's ultimately fruitless, does teach some level of character. An all too rare commodity well worth nurturing.

Feelings, as opposed to gut, are oft born of the wrong reasons.

Again I have to disagree. Gut is a feeling. What else is it? Cold logic? Intellect? Hardly.

Loadsa people go "ooh, I really regret breaking up with that person because they were really brill" when in fact they should be saying "I am a total needy príck who cant stand on my own two feet, therefore I miss the person I just split with".

That can be true and it can also be true that they made the wrong decision. I've seen both.

OP- its a really shít deal to your boyfriend that you are staying in it because it is comfy.

It's a shíttier deal if she and he don't make an effort to see if it can be resolved. Growing a spine takes many forms.

Does that mean that you condone that course of action i.e. one partner changing themselves to suit the other in order to maintain the relationship? That just says to me that they werent compatible in the first place.

Of course not. You've missed the point by a country mile. I'm saying that if the reason for the split was a lack of maturity on the part of one or both of the people, yet they were otherwise very compatible, then a change in that will often make a return to the relationship a good thing.

Thing is, most of us are too petrified senseless to be on our own, so rather than waiting it out for Messrs right, we settle for the wrong relationship in order to save us from the perceived frozen tundra that is being single.

There's certainly a lot of that about especially with women in my experience. I

f people actually had a spine and said "you know what, I am bigger than being petrified of being alone and you really dont suit me at all right now" at the beginning, rather than the middle or the end,

The beginning part of the relationship is generally not the time people are even thinking of a split in fairness. Unless of course one is a complete idiot or incredibly naive to engage in a bad one from the start.

Look at all the fúckwits who project their insecurities onto their partners to the point where the innocent one thinks they have to change to be "marketable material". Fúck that.

Well there can be innocent ones in relationships. Obviously. But, if two people are compatible and yet split with the woman being the one leaving, the fault is not always on the woman. It can be of course, but if you ask women why they leave and look at the actual reasons for their "gut" instinct to leave it's quite often the lack of a possible future/lack of maturity etc in the man. The women may have issues too(who doesn't), but that is a big reason why they may leave all other things being equal.

BTW we're all in the "market". We change ourselves all the time to attract and keep partners. Whether that's with clothing, grooming, attitude, social standing, keeping it interesting for both, the list is endless. We can dress it up in mills & boon or whatever floats your boat, but the fact is women and men are looking for certain things from a relationship. These vary with age, length of time of the relationship and other circumstances, but they are there. Does that mean we have to change ourselves? Only if it's for the better for ourselves not for others. We change for year to year and experience to experience. Do you honestly think most 35 yr old women who may want kids would entertain the notion of a long term equal relationship with a man with the mind of a 14 yr old? Of course not. It would be the same for men.

One of the most content couples I know went out with each other when they were 20/21. Both were as mature as ten day old wine at the time. Big issues. Now they were compatible at many levels even then and they kept in casual touch over the years. 12 years later and other partners in the meantime and they ended up living together with two kids. Would either of them want the 20/21 year old selves in that relationship now? Spot the diff? Imagine another scenario. Two people meet in college. They get on well, but both are alittle lazy about the future. She gets up the duff. She can't work for a while. Does he sit on his arse and wonder where the money for baby food comes from or does he get of his arse and make a life for his family? No he changes for him, for her and the situation. Same goes for her.

I'm not surprised that people have difficulty with some of this. I mean the fairy tales always end with "and they lived happily ever after", they don't tell us how they lived happily ever after. Falling in love with someone is a piece of píss, staying in love is where the work more often than not really starts. And it does mean work. It needs engagement, it needs communication. From both sides. Most important that.* Not very romantic, but required. If everyone bailed at the first sign of trouble rather than seeing the problem and trying to fix it then a lot of problems could be avoided. Am I saying no relationship is doomed? Nope. I've been in a few, but with the exception of one I know I made the required effort for me. If they left then I know it wasn't meant to be. I can live with that.

Anyway. I think, Mr. Wibbs, that you were making an observation so I shall resist the urge to tear you a new ársehóle such is my disapproval of what may or may not be your ACTUAL opinion. (God damn. Big brother has gone and switched off the smilies. Bah.)

Thems fightin words...:D

* I was making the point to the OP, that too many men don't see there is a problem until it's too late and she needs to sit down with him and really tell him her issues and worries. If that falls flat then she knows where she stands without recourse to her gut and he'll know what's what and not come onto PI wondering why he's not getting the leg over.

louisecm

Great post Kell.

I think the OP can not let the idea of being alone be a factor in her decision at all. I'm sure she, as all women are in one way or another, is beautiful and charming (and clearly intelligent and articulate judging by her posts). There will be others.

And also, being alone is really not so bad, especially when you have great friends. I recently became "alone" for the first time in years, and its ok. I am lucky that I have great support from my friends, especially my bestie. Trust that your friends will support you and that you can do the texting, quipping and venting with them until the next love comes along. And they will.

Amy- Cayx

do you not think that if the OP is regretting breaking up with their boyfriend, missing everything that was in their relationship that they should give it another go and put some work into it? theres a reason people miss things.

louisecm

I'm not saying that she should or shouldn't break up, I'm simply saying that a fear of being alone should not be a factor in her decision.

Wibbs

I do agree with both Kell and louisecm on this one. As a slight aside to this problem, too many stay in relationships for that very reason. The relationship is long over and they wait until something else comes along and then jump ship. A very bad character trait in my humble. I'm always suspicious of anyone who can't be alone with themselves for a while. So much so, that I would even consider my options very carefully if I'm interested in someone and I find out they're like that. Been there in the past. They're often the type who project their needs and happiness far too much on others. Not a good way to think as it sets them up for inevitable disappointment. They're rarely happy except in the early stages of a relationship or they get very lucky and find someone who can get them past that. Usually they're on a serial rebound cycle.

Kell

Wibbs wrote:

Again I have to disagree. Gut is a feeling. What else is it? Cold logic? Intellect? Hardly.That can be true and it can also be true that they made the wrong decision. I've seen both.

Hmmn. Lets go by example for this one. Believe it not, this boy was led by heart rather than head for far too long and well I wouldnt say burnt because I walked right in there so have to take responsibility for my own actions. One night, met this great girl, brill time, got on with my mates, invites me home and then goes and does something I didnt like. My "gut" says "dont go anywhere with that person. You'll regret it". So I says "err, I'm not going anywhere" and she turns into a psychopath. Unbelievably so. Now, I dont usually do feelings, just gut. I dont miss people either for whatever reason, so thats why I say gut is different to irrational feeling. Most people subjectively look at feelings as being irrational. They can be trained- believe me, and again, its what your brain does with the feeling that makes the difference. I may "feel" like having a wánk right now, but my brain says "no, you have to cut the grass then drive home". See what I mean? So rather than point a finger at someone because they have "irrationally" left a relationship and regret it afterward, blame the the logic that intercepted the feeling and put it into words.

Wibbs wrote:

The beginning part of the relationship is generally not the time people are even thinking of a split in fairness.

Really? (non sarcastic really) My last split was on the basis of sheer incompatibility and took a v short period of time. Usually most people would be still in the finding out about eachother stage. I prefer not to waste time for both parties sakes. My "gut" kicked in and said "you know what, this aint right" and again it was correct thru something I found out about a few months later. So while I am one to rationalise, I oft listen to the gut as its getting increasingly more accurate.

Ye see, most people actually ignore their gut. They're like "what are you talking about you dumb áss, thats just stupid". Once you start listening to it you're like "see I told you I was wrong" until you find its actually right. Tis a complicated one alright.

Wibbs wrote:

I've been in a few, but with the exception of one I know I made the required effort for me.

So long as the required effort involved maybe not seeing your mates all the time and falling in with the kebab on the bed at 4 in the morning, and cleaning the pubes from the toilet seat, then fine. If the required effort actually requires you changing something about your personality, then thats entirely wrong. But you know that and I would insert a smiley but big brother has gone and removed anything remotely resembling options from my view of boards. Boo hoo. Oh boo hoo hoo.

K-

Wibbs

Kell wrote:

Hmmn. Lets go by example for this one. Believe it not, this boy was led by heart rather than head for far too long and well I wouldnt say burnt because I walked right in there so have to take responsibility for my own actions.

been there, have the tee shirt, complimentary scarf and baseball cap. Very fetching in certain lights. I too have taken responsibility for my part in my own downfall and learned from it. How to spot the nutters. I'm thinking of writing a book.:D

One night, met this great girl, brill time, got on with my mates, invites me home and then goes and does something I didnt like. My "gut" says "dont go anywhere with that person. You'll regret it". So I says "err, I'm not going anywhere" and she turns into a psychopath. Unbelievably so. Now, I dont usually do feelings, just gut.

Maybe it's the definition of gut is the thing. For me it's when the head kicks in. With some, especially some women I know and have known, it's more an emotional thing that can defy obvious explanation. I do think in general and it is in general, what men and women describe as gut feelings may come from slightly different sources to arrive at the same conclusions. As an example if I ask a friend why they feel less attracted to someone, the guys are more likely to list the issues, whereas the women I'd know would be more likely to say "I don't know I just look at him differently". These would be intelligent and rational people of both genders and it is just a generalisation as one male friend would be more vague and one female friend would be very precise, but it is something I've observed often(cue roasting).

Most people subjectively look at feelings as being irrational.

True. not a good plan either.

They can be trained- believe me, and again, its what your brain does with the feeling that makes the difference.

Again agreed. Experience informs what the heart may be mumbling.

So rather than point a finger at someone because they have "irrationally" left a relationship and regret it afterward, blame the the logic that intercepted the feeling and put it into words.

No I do see what you mean and I agree with your take. I would say however that I have known people(mostly women again, cue second roasting), that have regretted leaving a relationship down the line. Sometimes for quite a long time after and in the cold light of day they feel they have made a very bad decision. From the outside, I would have agreed that it was bad call. In two cases a very bad call. That's why especially with longtermers where a circumstance may have changed, that could be rectified and in every other way they were compatible, taking a bit of breathing space can be a very good thing.

Really? (non sarcastic really) My last split was on the basis of sheer incompatibility and took a v short period of time. Usually most people would be still in the finding out about eachother stage. I prefer not to waste time for both parties sakes.

I suppose I'm putting my personal slant on it really. I would tend to be fairly sure before getting into something more serious with someone. I wouldn't get into BF GF after a one night thing.

I oft listen to the gut as its getting increasingly more accurate.

One of the advantages of age.

Tis a complicated one alright.

Never a truer word... And of course you can also meet someone that for whatever reason can bypass the gut feeling completely. I'm always aware of that one. If I had all the answers I'd make a bloody fortune.

So long as the required effort involved maybe not seeing your mates all the time and falling in with the kebab on the bed at 4 in the morning, and cleaning the pubes from the toilet seat, then fine. If the required effort actually requires you changing something about your personality, then thats entirely wrong.

Yes, basically I was saying that making you better for yourself is the goal. Being attentive, communicative and mature to your needs and that of your partner within the bounds of who you are as a person to the best of your abilities for your sake. If they don't appreciate that, well tough. Move on and find someone better who does. What I was saying is that in the example of men anyway, they can get complacent, stay in the now without thinking of tomorrow in a longtermer and then wonder why they get dumped. In many longtermers, women often think men will change and men often think women never will. That's where many founder, mostly for good reasons, sometimes for silly reasons that could be helped and keep something good going.

It's like the OP's bloke. I guarantee he hasn't spotted what's up yet. Or if he has he figures it'll pass or it's a bad patch. "She's been with me this long I reckon we'll be fine" kinda thing. that's purely down to communication. She's probably been communicating loads as far as he's concerned(the lack of sex, change in her mood etc) but not loud or clear enough for him to hear and thus change things if he wants to or can. Hence if she does drop the bomb he probably won't know why and her possible explanation of "I just fell out of love with you", won't really cut it. It won't help with his next relationship if he doesn't spot the reasons. Falling out of love is often a lazy catch all phrase for various problems that manifest in relationships. Often it's a drop off in trust in the man. Trust enough to plan a future with him anyway. Often it's because their goals diverge or at least at that time do. Again it's down to a possible future that would work with the particular guy. Often it's the transition from the excitement of romance to a more long term commitment that isn't as obviously exciting that rattles people. It can be the grass is always greener syndrome which is very common. It can have many reasons.

But you know that and I would insert a smiley but big brother has gone and removed anything remotely resembling options from my view of boards. Boo hoo. Oh boo hoo hoo.

Naw it's just you. they mustn't like you. they like me. Na na na na na. You're smelly.....:D (see look smileys)