Macbook Performance Anti-Climax

a5y

Well, I finally got my new Macbook yesterday, and its been something of an anticlimax: don't get me wrong, I love it to bits, but I think it hates me!

Pros:

-Safari has the best RSS reader I've ever had the pleasure to use
-Even though I feel I've to learn alot of OS things from scratch its all simple enough (though that command button still is confusing me )
-I finally have

• My own laptop
• A computer that isn't 5 years old and with 194Mb RAM
• A computer that isn't permanently stationed in the coldest room in the house
• A computer with a DVD burner

Cons:

-OS X froze up on me before I even finished setting up my account with it: when I was trying to use the camera to take a photo it froze solid, and I had to call the help line.
-The OS often feels unresponsive: when I open Safari, I count 10 seconds before it opens: thats almost as long as it takes for my other computer to ope Firefox. For a new computer that has a hard disk that only had the operating system on it thats alarming. (I wasn't using any other programs at the time)
-When I was listening to a one hour episode of Off The Hook I downloaded from 2600.com iTunes kept freezing the playback for a few minutes at a time without me going anywhere near it. (I had Safari open but not downloading anything when this occured)
-When I opened about 12 tabs on Safari from RSS feeds I wanted to read more on, Safari froze up and I had to reset the computer

I've gotten back onto the Apple helpline and asked about this twice, first time suggesting that installing software updates may solve the problem (I tried, but actually the mac crashed during the install process:( )and when that didn't work they suggested reinstalling the OS, which they guided me through, and whilst the Macbook hasn't crashed the performance hasn't really improved (I've yet to retry iTunes). Even whilst typing this post, the mac has twice stopped and displayed the spinning disk cursor symbol for 10 seconds before resuming. This has happened fairly often with Safari.

What I'd like to know is this: My Macbook has 1GB RAM, how much performance should I expect from it?

I don't expect it to be some multi-tasking video editting monster, but I'm feeling its performance has been subpar for some things as simple as web browsing and mp3 playback.

Does anyone have a macbook with similar spec that has a similar or notably better performance

One of the guys on the apple helpline mentioned that it may be a buffering problem (I won't pretend to know what that is), but the diagnostic tests they had me run have ruled out a faulty hard disk.

So in short: did I get a lemon instead of an apple, or would I need to upgrade to a Mac with more RAM to get the performance I need?

Urban Weigl

I would need to take a look at it, but that does not sound normal, and I speak from experience here since we have both a MacBook and I have a MacBook Pro myself as my work computer. Have you run the hardware diagnostics? Off the Hook (I listen to that show as well, it's brilliant), did you stream it or did you subscribe to the podcast and actually download it?

I ask because there is an important difference: if you were streaming it, it's quite possible that, depending on the speed of your internet connection, it may need to re-buffer -- which would have everything to do with your internet connection and nothing to do with your MacBook. On the other hand if you downloaded it, and yet it's still pausing, there is something wrong somewhere for sure.

Urban Weigl

Even if the hard drive passes diagnostic tests, it could still be faulty. My advice would be to bring it into an Apple authorised repair centre. They can take a look at it for free. Make sure to explain the exact symptoms and how to reproduce them.

By the way, Mac OS X crashing and requiring a restart is not normal. I use my MacBook Pro for hours every day, and have had it for 18 months now, and that has happened perhaps once or twice in all that time, and never just like that.

monkeyfudge

What version of Safari are you using?

If it's version 3 then bare in mind that it's still in beta.

Maybe give firefox a go and see if it runs better for you.

Sad Professor

Okay the freezing during installation and updating is very strange but everything else is Safari-related. I've experienced many of the same problems with it. Don't believe all the hype about it, it's a mediocre and unstable browser imo. If you want it to run smoothly you'll have to quit and reopen it several times a day and not have too many tabs open, otherwise it's just crash crash crash. It has a lot of potential certainly but it's been suffering from neglect. Hopefully this will change soon now that it's been integrated into the iphone and ported to Windows. Try using Camino instead.

And whilst 1GB of RAM is sufficient for most basic things you'll definitely want to get more, especially if you're planning on upgrading to Leopard. You can be assured that Apple only pre-install the bare minimum.

Are you sure the Off The Hook file wasn't being streamed?

K.O.Kiki

Needs a RAM check - could be one or both sticks faulty. MemTest OSX is not freeware (has it ever been?), so a quick Google throws up Rember.

WizZard

Sad Professor wrote:

Try using Camino instead.

I find Camino to be equally as flakey when left open for several days...

It ends up slowing everything down and eventually freezing and crashing.

Sad Professor

WizZard wrote:

I find Camino to be equally as flakey when left open for several days...

It ends up slowing everything down and eventually freezing and crashing.

Old versions maybe but I haven't had a single crash in ages. With Safari I wouldn't even get a choice, it just quits by itself after a few hours of heavy browsing.

WizZard

I'm using the latest stable version (1.5 I think) and it still happens to me

a5y

Urban Weigl wrote:

Have you run the hardware diagnostics? Off the Hook (I listen to that show as well, it's brilliant), did you stream it or did you subscribe to the podcast and actually download it?

I won't pretend to know exactly what the hardware diagnostics I ran were, but I remember clicking on somthing called "verify disc". (I don't remember the steps taken to get to the option, the helpline guy walked me through it a bit quick)

I downloaded it to the desktop and opened it in iTunes; so that rules out the internet connection or the wifi reception I guess.

a5y

Urban Weigl wrote:

Even if the hard drive passes diagnostic tests, it could still be faulty. My advice would be to bring it into an Apple authorised repair centre. They can take a look at it for free. Make sure to explain the exact symptoms and how to reproduce them.

On the phone after reinstalling the OS, I was told that something was definitely strange, and that if reinstalling the OS doesn't fix the problem it might be best to ring back up and arrange to have the MacBook returned and replaced with a new one. (Seeing as I only got it on the 11th and its now the 13th I think I might do that.)

By the way, Mac OS X crashing and requiring a restart is not normal. I use my MacBook Pro for hours every day, and have had it for 18 months now, and that has happened perhaps once or twice in all that time, and never just like that.

One of the main reasons I decided to buy a mac was there reputation for reliability (not that I'm going to stop making backups of my files or anything now that I have). Needless to say I was rather unimpressed when it crashed when I was setting up my profile, so I suspect something is amiss with this particular one.

a5y

monkeyfudge wrote:

What version of Safari are you using?

If it's version 3 then bare in mind that it's still in beta.

Version 2.0.4 (419.3), not upgraded since I reinstalled the OS.

Maybe give firefox a go and see if it runs better for you.

I would, if it were only Safari that was the problem, but combined with iTunes and the crashes I think something more than a browser problem is happening here.

a5y

Sad Professor wrote:

Okay the freezing during installation and updating is very strange but everything else is Safari-related. I've experienced many of the same problems with it. Don't believe all the hype about it, it's a mediocre and unstable browser imo. If you want it to run smoothly you'll have to quit and reopen it several times a day and not have too many tabs open, otherwise it's just crash crash crash. It has a lot of potential certainly but it's been suffering from neglect. Hopefully this will change soon now that it's been integrated into the iphone and ported to Windows. Try using Camino instead.

Its looking like I may have to do that. I've never heard of Camino before (I take it that it only runs on OS X?), so I think I'll definitely look that up.

And whilst 1GB of RAM is sufficient for most basic things you'll definitely want to get more, especially if you're planning on upgrading to Leopard. You can be assured that Apple only pre-install the bare minimum.

Would Leopard really require more RAM? Are the version differences between OS Xs that big?

Are you sure the Off The Hook file wasn't being streamed?

Yup, positive. Saved to desktop, opened with iTunes.

Sad Professor

a5y, insert the OSX install disc and hold the D key as you restart to do a hardware test. It's possible you have a RAM problem, it might be worth taking the chips out and reinserting them securely, this has worked for me in the past. Also download Rember from here:

http://www.kelleycomputing.net/rember/

and do a memory test.

And yes Leopard will use more RAM, this is true of any OS upgrade. More features, more bloat, etc. Personally I think 1GB is barely enough for Tiger.

Apart from that one incident have you had any other problems with iTunes?

a5y

K.O.Kiki wrote:

Needs a RAM check - could be one or both sticks faulty. MemTest OSX is not freeware (has it ever been?), so a quick Google throws up Rember.

Hmm. If the test does reveal the RAM is faulty, then I know what the problem is, but I may have a hard time convincing the Apple call centre worker that the results of diagnostic software that wasn't written by Apple means anything. (OS X comes with a diagnostic test for the hard disk but not for the RAM? That sounds a like a rush job )

Ultimately this is looking more and more like I'd need to return the MacBook for a new one, even if it takes another week or two for them to get it to me. (I'm not relishing the idea of returning to the coldest room in the house to use the web in the meantime; believe me...)

Sad Professor

The Apple hardware test will do a RAM check as well, just not as detailed. Apple are fairly easy to deal with on these matters. Where did you buy it from? The Applestore? You're perfectly within your rights to demand a replacement if you're not happy.

Anyway I'm still not so sure there is a major problem here but you're probably better off sending it back just incase.

a5y

Sad Professor wrote:

a5y, insert the OSX install disc and hold the D key as you restart to do a hardware test. It's possible you have a RAM problem, it might be worth taking the chips out and reinserting them securely, this has worked for me in the past.

OK, I'll give the hardware test a go, though the idea of opening up the laptop and removing and reinstalling the RAM doesn't sit well with me seeing as its within warranty (I'd bought Applecare and all with the hopes it'd keep me from ever having to roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty )

Also download Rember from here:

http://www.kelleycomputing.net/rember/

and do a memory test.

OK, I'll give this a shot too, though I don't know if knowing the RAM is faulty will benefit me.

And yes Leopard will use more RAM, this is true of any OS upgrade. More features, more bloat, etc. Personally I think 1GB is barely enough for Tiger.

I was wondering about how well Tiger would run with a gig of RAM; I've long suspected most laptops sold to be a bit thin on RAM. Though I didn't know that the differences between the kitties would be so big as to require some sticks with bigger numbers on them.

This has got me thinking I may need to spend more on a Mac with more grunt. I know Leopard isn't released yet so you can't really know, but what would you guess the recommended RAM spec for Tiger would be?

Apart from that one incident have you had any other problems with iTunes?

Haven't listened to anything on iTunes since, but for the sake of finding out if this is a reoccuring problem I'm going to download and listen to a few more OTH episodes and a few CDs.

a5y

Sad Professor wrote:

The Apple hardware test will do a RAM check as well, just not as detailed. Apple are fairly easy to deal with on these matters. Where did you buy it from? The Applestore? You're perfectly within your rights to demand a replacement if you're not happy.

Yep, Applestore. I think I might demand a replacement, if nothing else it will give me more first hand experience with what sort of performance I can expect from a Macbook with running Tiger with 1Gb of RAM. The alternative (just keeping this one) doesn't sit right with me since I'm going to be left wondering is this meant to be like that? for who knows how long.

Anyway I'm still not so sure there is a major problem here but you're probably better off sending it back just incase.

Agreed.

Sad Professor

a5y wrote:

OK, I'll give the hardware test a go, though the idea of opening up the laptop and removing and reinstalling the RAM doesn't sit well with me seeing as its within warranty (I'd bought Applecare and all with the hopes it'd keep me from ever having to roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty )

You should have gotten Techtools with the Applecare, if so try running it instead, it can do a very thorough hardware test and should give you a good idea if there's anything wrong. And removing and replacing the RAM is easy and doesn't effect the warranty whatsoever.

Haven't listened to anything on iTunes since, but for the sake of finding out if this is a reoccuring problem I'm going to download and listen to a few more OTH episodes and a few CDs.

I just had a look at that site you downloaded OTH from and many of the files there are streaming. Did the file you downloaded end with .pls?

a5y

Sad Professor wrote:

You should have gotten Techtools with the Applecare, if so try running it instead, it can do a very thorough hardware test and should give you a good idea if there's anything wrong. And removing and replacing the RAM is easy and doesn't effect the warranty whatsoever.

I suppose I should open the Applecare envelope and see whats inside :rolleyes: (D'oh! )

I just had a look at that site you downloaded OTH from and many of the files there are streaming. Did the file you downloaded end with .pls?

Nope, .mp3

The newest episode of Off The Hook I downloaded (again, this one is also a .mp3, and wasn't streamed) has the same problem, though at least this time it did get 13 minutes in before playback paused for a good two minutes and then continued for maybe 1o seconds before pausing again. I haven't stuck in a CD yet, though seeing as I stuck in both OS X DVDs for reinstalling the software I am fairly confident that I would get it out again.

Another thing I noticed is that the Macbook gets quite warm on the lefthand underside of the chassis ( think of a rectangle shape running under the esc - F6 - B - left shift keys, that is currently warming my left leg as I type this). As this is my first laptop, how hot does this normally get? Could any of the crashes or underperformance be a result of overheating, or is this absolutely normal? Its not so hot that I'm sweating or anything but it is a remarkable I.M.O.

Sad Professor

a5y wrote:

Another thing I noticed is that the Macbook gets quite warm on the lefthand underside of the chassis ( think of a rectangle shape running under the esc - F6 - B - left shift keys, that is currently warming my left leg as I type this). As this is my first laptop, how hot does this normally get? Could any of the crashes or underperformance be a result of overheating, or is this absolutely normal? Its not so hot that I'm sweating or anything but it is a remarkable I.M.O.

No, the heat is perfectly normal, they can get very hot actually. In fact Apple (or any computer manufacturer) will tell you it's not supposed to be used on your lap. Hence the reason laptops are not called "laptops" anymore but "notebooks" instead.

K.O.Kiki

Argh! Too many quotes to read!
*crash'n'burns*

eurotrotter

I Thought Hte Same When Igot My Macbook
I Fitted 2gigs Of Ram,



Problem Solved!




I Now Have A Macrocket!!!!!

triple h

a5y wrote:

Yep, Applestore. I think I might demand a replacement,
Agreed.

I am new to mac since just before xmas and i love it. I will never buy a windows computer again.

Funny thing is when i got my imac just before xmas it started acting strange, so i returned it. I rang one saturday morning --- the dud was collected on tuesday and i had my new imac on wednesday. I could not believe how quick i got the new one. The new one has given me no trouble since.

After the bad experience of the first dud imac i was afraid of downloads, upgrades and just about everything else that went on in my computer for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks ......but as time went on, the fear went and i am happy i moved to mac. You are just like me, you were unlucky to get a dud first time round, these things happen. the week i got my dud a girl i know told me that in her work place they got 25 dud dell computers shipped to them. it happens. I reckon the new laptop you get will be good, here's hoping.

RETURN THE DUD. DO IT.

a5y

triple h wrote:

Funny thing is when i got my imac just before xmas it started acting strange, so i returned it. I rang one saturday morning --- the dud was collected on tuesday and i had my new imac on wednesday. I could not believe how quick i got the new one. The new one has given me no trouble since.

...SNIP...

RETURN THE DUD. DO IT.

I think Shirley Bassey & The Propellorheads just started playing on my PSP.

"Just another little bit of history repeating"

Scray timing, huh?

Yeah, I'm not too freaked about the whole dud thing, these things happen. One of the more positive things I learned from my (otherwise soul-destroying) time working in Currys was that sh*t happens, particularly to computers.

I've made the call during my lunch break and since received an email and text telling me that the wheels are in motion as far as getting my replacement to me goes, estimated delivery date is this Thursday.

Still to receive a call detailing when Dudley Mac is getting picked up and going back; but in the mean time he's still fit for posting to boards (for the most part).

condra

Sorry to hear youre having problems. Hopefully the replacement will sort things out.

Safari should only take a couple of seconds to open.

monkeyfudge

eurotrotter wrote:

I Thought Hte Same When Igot My Macbook
I Fitted 2gigs Of Ram,



Problem Solved!




I Now Have A Macrocket!!!!!

Your keyboard seems to be broken though.

440Hz

triple h wrote:

RETURN THE DUD. DO IT.

Dud and Mac should really not appear in the same paragraph. This is truly a sad sad story. Hopefully it will all work out now. My guess is that Mr Gates* intercepted your machine and sabotaged it!! Cos afterall, Macs are perfect normally! cough

*before anyone sues me, I'm joking!

jtsuited

i've had a good bit of experience with people buying new macs, and it's not uncommon for someone to get a dud. I got a powerbook last year and it had a duff ram card.
Just recently got a macbook pro and had one or two hiccups at the start (to my surprise). There was a big firmware update since then and haven't had one thing go wrong.

Take it back and see what they say. As was said, Apple are generally extremely good about these things. Although it seems like a problem with safari (and possibly all the RSS stuff).

Once everything is running, it will stay that way. That's the great thing about macs.

a5y

a5y wrote:

Well, I finally got my new Macbook yesterday, and

Well, I finally got my new new Macbook today, and its working like a charm so far. I don't have it a full hour yet, but so far the signs are good:

- NEW & IMPROVED CRASH FREE OS X Profile maker!
- An improved version of Safari that doesn't taken an era to open!

I'm downloading O. T. H. now to see if iTunes wants to play nice, but to be Frank, Shirley, I'm considering looking around for a different media player and browser, probably starting with Camino, Firefox and WinAmp.

Dudley Mac is still sitting on the couch, sulking in his box. He's going away tomorrow, the courier company rang me today and gave me a 4 hour window to expect them. In a (small, irrational) way I'm kind of glad things didn't go so smoothly as it gave me an idea of the level of after sales service I can expect from Applecare over the next 3 years; and its a level I'm satisfied with.

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME. THANK YOU ALL!

PS
When the courier was delivering my newer macbook, he parked at my neighbours driveway, who backed his car into the great big UPS van (how he didn't see it is beyond me completely!). The van wasn't damaged (according to the courier "not even a scratch"), but my neighbour (who annoys me) broke a tail light.

BONUS POINTS TO APPLE & UPS FOR SERVICE & STYLE.

440Hz

a5y wrote:

PS
When the courier was delivering my newer macbook, he parked at my neighbours driveway, who backed his car into the great big UPS van (how he didn't see it is beyond me completely!). The van wasn't damaged (according to the courier "not even a scratch"), but my neighbour (who annoys me) broke a tail light.

BONUS POINTS TO APPLE & UPS FOR SERVICE & STYLE.

Instant karma!! lol, that gave me a good laugh... and oh... its nearly 5:30, double smiles.

Sad Professor

Glad you got it sorted out, a5y. And give itunes a chance, there isn't really much alternative anyway. There is no Winamp on the mac afaik.

condra

Yep. I also say give itunes a chance.

It takes a while to get used to at first, but its really quite good, and well integrated into OSX.

440Hz

whiterebel wrote:

I know you shouldn'thave to with a brand new machine, but if I were you, I'd back up and do a "zero all data" erase, just in case there was a corruption during the install. More likely to be the Ram, though

Very good practice to take a disc image of a new system! I always mean to but never remember to do it. I do it all the time at work though.

a5y

Sad Professor wrote:

... And give itunes a chance, there isn't really much alternative anyway. There is no Winamp on the mac afaik.

Having given iTunes a chance, I've gotten through one episode of Off The Hook and one episode of Off The Wall without any mischief on its part, so maybe it isn't so bad. What I really want is one media player t that will play most video formats under the sun; on my old XP box I had to use divX; windows media player, Quicktime and Winamp to cover everything and it was an inconvenience I don't care to repeat.

I'm going to spend some time looking for a list of essential mac software, I'm surprised there isn't a sticky on the subject already; though it may be because Macs tend to come with pretty damn good software on the whole.

Also, completely off topic, but does anyone know the keyboard combination to type a Euro symbol on a macbook? If they do, please share it with me, as it is staring at me from the 2 & @ button but I'm clueless to get at it. And as I was the guy who had to remind everyone else in my class how to type the symbol on windows PCs its really annoying me... :rolleyes:

condra

VLC for all AVIs

alt 2 for €

Narcissus

I've had a macbook a few weeks now but i just figured out the other day that the option button was the one beside the apple button (command button).

The equivalent of alt in windows.

So pressing that and 2 gets €

edit: beaten to it!

a5y

Thanks for the h€lp!

a5y

Thanks all the sam€.

440Hz

Add it to the sticky!!

Urban Weigl

a5y, for Mac software check out MacUpdate.com (www.macupdate.com). VLC and mPlayer are quite good, and you might already know them from the Windows side. Also check Mac related blogs like www.tuaw.com as they sometimes cover software, or just ask here if you're looking for anything.

By the way, there's a free plugin called flip4mac, which will allow you to play Windows Media content in QuickTime. Handy for the videos on cnn.com and the like.

jtsuited

womoma wrote:

VLC for all AVIs

+1 a bloody brilliant little program, seems to play everything i throw at it!