Burning the tri colour

arctictree

All - Just noticed on the news that most of the 12th July bonfires have tri colours on top of them.

Do you think that in this era of mutual respect that this should be allowed? We dont burn the union jack on st patricks day ASFAIK??? I mean, I thought we had moved away from this type of extremism....

A

skelliser

i agree, but then i think of all the toxic fumes they have to inhale from the thousands of tyres they burn, idiots!

Saint Ruth

arctictree wrote:

Do you think that in this era of mutual respect that this should be allowed?

Should be allowed?

How do you propose to stop it, besides using rubber bullets and thousands of riot police?

WJKing Snr

I'm a Northern Protestant and I have to say I'm in two minds about it. I've seen your flag burnt lots of times and to be honest it was mostly just for a laugh and a bit of what you'd call craic? If it gets nasty, then that's when the problems occur. But otherwise I think most Tadghs see it for what it is.

bonkey

To quote Noam Chomsky...

Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech.

ETA:

To quote President Andrew Shepherd*...

"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".

* Yes, I know it was a movie.

bonkey

WJKing Snr wrote:

I'm a Northern Protestant and I have to say I'm in two minds about it. I've seen your flag burnt lots of times and to be honest it was mostly just for a laugh and a bit of what you'd call craic? If it gets nasty, then that's when the problems occur. But otherwise I think most Tadghs see it for what it is.

So if you saw us, down south, burning the Union Jack whilst laughing and jeering at Unionists, you'd accept it as a bit of a laugh then?

celt2005

Tricolours are burnt on 12th bonfires regularly, suppose its " Part of their culture".

And they wonder why "their culture" is not held in high regard ,whilst they burn Irish flags as a bit of craic.

WJKing Snr

bonkey wrote:

So if you saw us, down south, burning the Union Jack whilst laughing and jeering at Unionists, you'd accept it as a bit of a laugh then?

You're free, as you point out, to express yourself however you choose. As long as it's south of the border in your own country, it wouldn't particularly bother me. Irish people, as in Southern Irish people, don't have any respect for the law anyway so it wouldn't come as a big surprise.

DarkJager

And this is coming from someone living in the north??? Don't make me laugh...

celt2005

Burning flags in North is against law, but suppose it is better than burning and intimdating foreign nationals from their homes.

enda1

I heard that you're not allowed burn the tricolour down here. If this is true i think its a bit stupid. What a stupid thing to make a law about.

arctictree

WJKing Snr wrote:

I'm a Northern Protestant and I have to say I'm in two minds about it. I've seen your flag burnt lots of times and to be honest it was mostly just for a laugh and a bit of what you'd call craic? If it gets nasty, then that's when the problems occur. But otherwise I think most Tadghs see it for what it is.

IMO - Both cultures are entitled to march with their own flags. I think when you start to burn the other sides flag then that just provokes hatred in some people.

hallelujajordan

bonkey wrote:

So if you saw us, down south, burning the Union Jack whilst laughing and jeering at Unionists, you'd accept it as a bit of a laugh then?

freedom of speech is freedom of speech. you might not like what people have to say, but in a civilised society we should be willing to respect their right to say it.

WJKing Snr

All I'm saying is that there's a certain suspicion on your part of authority, the State, Police and so on. I expect it;s just the way things panned out as a result of your violence violent history.

WJKing Snr

DarkJager wrote:

And this is coming from someone living in the north??? Don't make me laugh...

All I'm saying is that there's a certain suspicion on your part of authority, the State, Police and so on. I expect it;s just the way things panned out as a result of your violence violent history.

celt2005

WJ,

Our shared violent history.

Fratton Fred

They burn tri-colours to wind people up and it looks like it works:rolleyes:

WJKing Snr

celt2005 wrote:

WJ,

Our shared violent history.

Ok fair enough. I'm actually sensing a lot of animosity here. It's not like I spent my entire childhood burning your flag by the way. In fact one summer when our dog died we buried him in a Tricolour.

stovelid

WJKing Snr wrote:

IBut otherwise I think most Tadghs see it for what it is.

no need to use the PC version of taig cos you're on a southern board.

OP - it's just a flag. Burn a Union Jack or Ulster Banner to achieve parity of oppression if you wish?

It's not an incitement as it's not in a catholic area.

Nobody is being hurt.

It's just a dopey sectarian gesture in a region awash in cross-community dopey sectarian gestures.

Who cares.

Gone West

WJKing Snr wrote:

All I'm saying is that there's a certain suspicion on your part of authority, the State, Police and so on. I expect it;s just the way things panned out as a result of your violence violent history.

Ignorance is probably bliss for you, yes?

Zombrex

arctictree wrote:

Do you think that in this era of mutual respect that this should be allowed? We dont burn the union jack on st patricks day ASFAIK??? I mean, I thought we had moved away from this type of extremism....

Clearly those who do burn the flag are not filled with mutual respect, and have not "moved on"

So I'm not quite sure what you mean by when you ask should this be allowed. What would not allowing it achieve?

Ronan|Raven

Can you people not spot a troll?

Hydroquinone

WJKing Snr wrote:

In fact one summer when our dog died we buried him in a Tricolour.

Why?

maniac101

WJKing Snr wrote:

Ok fair enough. I'm actually sensing a lot of animosity here.

No WJ, animosity is what you wish to sense, and what you messages are designed to incite. What you actually sense is much worse, it's ambivalence. No-one really cares about what you did with your dog!

WJKing Snr

Hydroquinone wrote:

Why?

Truth is it was all we had to hand to shift him over into the grave. Also, his name was Paddy.

stovelid

WJKing Snr wrote:

Ok fair enough. I'm actually sensing a lot of animosity here. It's not like I spent my entire childhood burning your flag by the way. In fact one summer when our dog died we buried him in a Tricolour.

Please don't tell the OP you are wrapping dead animals in the green white and gold. He'll be leading a band of rebels up north by the time my lunch is over.

Franz Ferdinand

Not bothered about them burning the flag, but did you notice the lettering on it?
K - A - T = Kill All Taigs.

Ah but sure, thats part of proddy culture - I forgot!

In a lighter vein, anyone ever hear the Bill Hicks routine on flag burning?

Redneck: "Hey buddy! Stop burnin' the flag! My Daddy died for that flag!"
Bill: "Gee really? I bought mine at WalMart".

Hydroquinone

WJKing Snr wrote:

Truth is it was all we had to hand to shift him over into the grave. Also, his name was Paddy.

Yep. Because everyone has spare flags for other countries knocking about their house, don't they?

WJKing Snr, eh? I bet the W stands for William.
King Billy is among us, folks. On the 12th.
How nice.

Franz Ferdinand

Not bothered about them burning the flag, but did you notice the lettering on it?
K - A - T = Kill All Taigs.

Ah but sure, thats part of proddy culture - I forgot!

In a lighter vein, anyone ever hear the Bill Hicks routine on flag burning?

Redneck: "Hey buddy! Stop burnin' the flag! My Daddy died for that flag!"
Bill: "Gee really? I bought mine at WalMart".

Redneck: ""Hey buddy, my daddy died in the Korean war for that flag."
Bill: "What a coincidence - my flag was made in Korea!"

As Bill said - remember, its just a ride.....

arctictree

Wicknight wrote:

Clearly those who do burn the flag are not filled with mutual respect, and have not "moved on"

So I'm not quite sure what you mean by when you ask should this be allowed. What would not allowing it achieve?

Looks like I've opened a can of worms here. Just thought it was strange that this still goes on and wanted some opinions on it. Some people think its OK, others dont. Personally, I think burning a flag is a gesture of disrespect.

Also, if the law in the North says you can't burn flags and you do, then the law isn't really respected there either....

jaarius

I was not aware that 'Tadgh' or 'Taig' was a nickname for an Irishman.

This thread is hilarious, btw.

j

mickoneill30

arctictree wrote:

Looks like I've opened a can of worms here. Just thought it was strange that this still goes on and wanted some opinions on it. Some people think its OK, others dont. Personally, I think burning a flag is a gesture of disrespect.

I'm from the south and respect the flag and have the brains to respect the flags from other countries. That said I care but not to the point where it upsets me if other people burn our flag.
There are stupid people everywhere (check a few posts up for some muppets). Let the stupid people do what they want. As long as they're not hurting anyone and it gives them amusement leave them alone. They'll get bored eventually.

flogen

Hydroquinone wrote:

Yep. Because everyone has spare flags for other countries knocking about their house, don't they?

Well of course - they have to stock up on flags if they're going to burn them. Duh.

OP - you're giving these morons the reaction they want.

The fact is, this is not part of the 12th's tradition, it's a very recent addition (considering the fact that the Irish tricolour only came into popular use from 1919 and was only envisioned 150 years ago at most).
It's just a tactic used by insecure/paranoid Loyalists who want to get a rise out of insecure/paranoid Republicans. They also like to put the names of dead catholic children on flags and bonfires and burn them too - whatever it takes.
The point is that it only works if people give out about it, so don't.

Besides, they're really no worse or better than Republicans who do the similarly pointless stunts and I don't see how they're desecrating the flag any more than those animals on O'Connell St. did when they attacked the Love Ulster parade.

The best thing is to ignore them - let them have their fun and everyone else can just get on with their lives.

(btw, I was delighted to see a piece on RTÉ News yesterday about the 12th, where they showed loads of shots of bonfires with tricolours on them but made absolutely no reference to them - the piece was about the pollution caused by the tires!)

WJKing Snr

mickoneill30 wrote:

I'm from the south and respect the flag and have the brains to respect the flags from other countries. That said I care but not to the point where it upsets me if other people burn our flag.
There are stupid people everywhere (check a few posts up for some muppets). Let the stupid people do what they want. As long as they're not hurting anyone and it gives them amusement leave them alone. They'll get bored eventually.

Well said Mickoneill. Well said.

Zombrex

arctictree wrote:

Looks like I've opened a can of worms here. Just thought it was strange that this still goes on and wanted some opinions on it. Some people think its OK, others dont. Personally, I think burning a flag is a gesture of disrespect.

Well it depends on what you mean by "ok". I agree that it is a gesture of disrespect, but then that is how it is meant to be taken.

At the same time I would be opposed to any form of legislation that would attempt ban the burning of a flag. A person should have the right to disrespect someone else. And we, as the people being disrespected, have the right to say we think it is disrespectful.

sickpuppy

The same gimps who burn irish tri colours want to march in our capital with there flutes and sachs etc.
Singing king Billys praises as a group nothern irish protestants are neither liked or wanted by anyone.
The uk dosent want you and doesnt need you you lot live in ashallow cess pool of hatred bigotry and ignorance which i hope drowns you.

jjbrien

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Not bothered about them burning the flag, but did you notice the lettering on it?
K - A - T = Kill All Taigs.

I wondered what that ment. I myself am a southern protestant and was very offended when I seen those tricolours on the tire heap to be burnt. I was so angy I was going to fire an email off to Dermot Ahern then I said what good would it do its not like the psni would go and say to them we had a compaint from Dermot Ahern and you have to take the flags down and do not burn them. Can see that happening. Its shows they still have not learnt up north to respect each other.

Dr_Teeth

It's a bit sad, given that the colours of the flag represent peace between the nationalists and unionists. But hey it's a free country.

El Stuntman

classic wind-up WJ King

<applause>

gbh

Northern Protestants can't have it both ways...If they burn our flag up North they don't expect to be welcomed and applauded through Dublin for Love Ulster parades. Burning the other community's flag is out and out Bigotry and nothing else and educates the protestant young in the north to hate Nationalists. Personally I think these bonfires are like training camps for drug-pushing criminal gangs.

sceptre

I just hope they're burning tricolours made on the southern side of the border. At least that way they're contributing to our economy, which clearly needs the cash more than the booming one up north.

(let's assume I put in the sarcastic emphasis where necessary)