opinions on ebay issue

miju

right well my first time for selling on ebay saga problems continue though in a different light.

basically auction ended on Friday and shipped the camera to the winner in UK. He recieved it today and doesnt want it now because its NTSC not PAL.

Now granted I didnt state that in the listing but there were many people asking questions about it and it was answered a few times in the ask the seller a question section which the buyer should of checked.

I said I had a returns policy on the basis that camera was not in condition described (my descriptions were accurate btw so genuinely wasnt expecting problems)

So now he wants to return it and a refund but firstly I dont think I should refund it because he should have checked it out fully first and secondly the money for the refund has already gone to pay a different bill.

what do you guys reckon is the right course of action here. i'm also out of pocket for shipping to the tune of 44 blips

Little-Devil

miju wrote:

basically auction ended on Friday and shipped the camera to the winner in UK. He recieved it today and doesnt want it now because its NTSC not PAL.

If he was that interested in the camera to put a bid, then i'm sure he knew exactly what he was looking for and would have checked the add and saw you mention it was NOT a PAL. I dont think you take the balme for the buyer not knowing the difference. Tough in my opinion, you had other buyers who probably knew exactly what they where bidding for and buying.

miju wrote:

Now granted I didnt state that in the listing but there were many people asking questions about it and it was answered a few times in the ask the seller a question section which the buyer should of checked.

Again if the buyer knew the difference between say between a Digital and say Kodak then its his fault for not reading the add you posted. It sounds as if he wasnt bothered reading the add or was just to impatient.

miju wrote:

I said I had a returns policy on the basis that camera was not in condition described (my descriptions were accurate btw so genuinely wasnt expecting problems)

" Condition not make or model" again his fault for not doing his homework or checking the add.

miju wrote:

what do you guys reckon is the right course of action here. i'm also out of pocket for shipping to the tune of 44 blips

So your out of pocket for shipping €44 plus the cost of posting the add and now also you will be out of pocket again for having to re-post the add and ship to a new buyer for a product you advertised and also responsed to questions that where asked on the add and detail on the camera. I cant see how your in the wrong and should lose out, not your fault.

I think maybe he is chancing his arm and knew exactly what he was buying.

jhegarty

A link to the auction would make things far clearer to me ....

miju

Thanks little devil its reassuring to have an impartial opinion.

I want to be fair about this but im thinking he's chancing his arm too I mean if I was to spend €1,000 on a camera I'd want to know everything about it before bidding as others did.

Should I contact ebay about this or do they even do anything. im a bit unknowledgeable about an ebay disputes as ive only used ebay to buy a few times and they've all been flawless transactions and they're help section is pretty useless with info

only thing i could find was this about was consititutes a genuine dispute:

Fail to deliver an item for which payment was accepted.

Significantly misrepresent an item by not meeting the terms and item description outlined in the listing.

Refuse to accept payment for an item at the end of a successful sale.

everything was as described , camera was delivered within 3 business days so I definitely thinking I'm entitled not to give a refund

bbbbb

Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I would think for an Irish based seller it's reasonable to assume it's PAL unless it's explictly stated as NTSC. If I was selling a car people would assume its right hand drive unless I stated it was LHD. Don't ebay have a conflict resolution centre or something?

Vikings

A link to the auction would help here, if I could see it and the buyer's complaint I could give you my opinion on whether he has a case or not.

jor el

Are you sure there isn't an option on the camera to select between NTSC and PAL video? Any digital camera I've ever had/seen/used has that option. If you don't have the manual any more then it's probably available from the manufacturers website. That would sort the guy out if it works.

Apart from that, I don't think eBay will get involved. The camera is exactly as described and working properly. He's changed his mind because it doesn't suit his needs. You could accept it back if you wanted to, but keep 10 or 20% of the cost as a re-stocking fee, that's about the usual, and he has to pay full return costs. You could then re-sell it.

This is all totally up to you though as I don't think there's any requirement for you to refund as it looks like it was the buyers mistake.

jhegarty

jor el wrote:

The camera is exactly as described and working properly.

How can you say its exactly as described when even the op says he didn't say it was NTSC in the ad ?

miju

I didnt say NTSC because I was using without issue on PAL systems without any problems so I genuinely didnt think it was a problem. Anyways contacted a friend today who works in ebay and she seems to of the opinion that item was as described so is ultimately up to myself what to do.

Have contacted the buyer and asked does he want to go to the 3rd party fair trade site ebay recommends so that should put an end to it.

Vikings

If you didn't describe it fully as being NTSC then the buyer would have a valid reason to complain. Again, would need to see the auction and the buyer's complaint to give you an answer.

byte

Mustangs wrote:

If you didn't describe it fully as being NTSC then the buyer would have a valid reason to complain. Again, would need to see the auction and the buyer's complaint to give you an answer.

I agree tbh. Since the item was in Europe, the buyer may have assumed that the unit was PAL, and hadn't even considered that the item was NTSC, or that it may cause problems.

faceman

sorry miju i also agree with byte and mustang. Even though its answered in the questions, its up to the seller to make it clear in the ad.

rubadub

jhegarty wrote:

How can you say its exactly as described when even the op says he didn't say it was NTSC in the ad ?

I think he is saying that he did not lie or mislead in his ad, he said "it is exactly as described", I take that to mean all his points listed were true, no matter how vague or lacking the description was. To describe everything about it would take a few months to write out.

A guy could get it, not like it, then say "it has no strap". Though if I had a NTSC camera I would point it out if selling in the EU, to avoid such things, I would also specifically state "THIS IS NOT PAL WILL NOT WORK IN MOST EU COUNTRIES".
Same would go if I was selling a 110V or 230V device on ebay.

I was won an auction on a particular device a while back, the guy was deliberately misleading in its description. He was trying to pass it off as a "model 2", when it was a "model 1", he didnt make any really false claims but was verging on it. Had it as a high opening bid price so you would think it was a "model 2", which goes for 10 times the price of the "model 1".

Ended up not paying him.

OP- Post the link so people can see it, everybody should post the links if they want opinions on ebay.

Vikings

While I understand what you are saying above rubadub, that's not really how it works.

While everything that the OP described in the auction may have been true, the fact that key information such as whether it was PAL or NTSC was not included can be seen to be misleading.

Accessories not being included is one thing as if they are not listed then they are simply not included (strap for example) but as the camera has to be either PAL or NTSC then it should be listed in the auction.

rubadub

Mustangs wrote:

While I understand what you are saying above rubadub, that's not really how it works.

I agree he should have put it in, but he did nothing against the rules by not putting it in. I dont think he was trying to decieve anybody.

this is why I do think he was above board, and it is how it works.
http://pages.ebay.ie/help/buy/buyer_checklist.html
all obvious stuff
If you have any questions you ask the seller beforehand. e.g. never bid on an item where you do not know the postage costs. Do not buy and item if you are unsure of the voltage, region coding (consoles), or other stuff- like PAL

Accessories not being included is one thing as if they are not listed then they are simply not included (strap for example) but as the camera has to be either PAL or NTSC then it should be listed in the auction..

Check out this, a typical camera on sale

http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-SONY-SLR-DIGITAL-CAMERA-A100-DUAL-LENS-4GB-CF_W0QQitemZ180137801368QQihZ008QQcategoryZ31388QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You can see the standard stuff that is asked when entering info. There is no PAL/NTSC box there so it could be omitted with no attempt to deceive.

Yet there is a place to list stuff "bundled kits" such as straps/tripods etc.

I dont know anybody that uses the "connect to TV" function. If I did want it, I would ask.

I am still in 2 minds about it and would have to see the item description. If selling I would go out of my way to tell people what they are not getting to avoid situations like this.

miju

just an update. the buyers actually decided to keep the camera as he's played about with and actually realised that NTSC / PAL compatibility issues aren't a problem at all with this cam (which is reason why I didnt think it neccessary to mention it in the first place)

btw link to the auction is http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170126636424&rd=1&rd=1

thanks for all the opinionsguys , guess its lesson learnt for future selling

byte

Good to see it's all worked out good in the end.

Vikings

rubadub wrote:

this is why I do think he was above board, and it is how it works.

Ok but lets say I was selling an xbox 360, I describe it fully with all specifications etc I state condition and everything else that you would expect but I leave out the fact that it is an American xbox, this would be a misleading auction as if I am selling from Ireland I should be selling a EU xbox, and if not then it should be made clear in the auction.

Whether something like that is left out of an auction on purpose or by accident can not be told by anyone either than the seller, and they will always try to protect themself and their money when it comes down to it which is why you must list everything about the item... that you didnt know is not a valid excuse. Your item, you should now is the stance on it really.

Glad to see that it worked out for you in the end miju.

rubadub

Mustangs wrote:

I describe it fully with all specifications etc I state condition and everything else that you would expect but I leave out the fact that it is an American xbox, this would be a misleading auction as if I am selling from Ireland I should be selling a EU xbox, and if not then it should be made clear in the auction.

If I was looking for an xbox and it wasnt stated I would just move onto the next auction. I would not want to deal with somebody who is that ignorant in how to use ebay or put up an auction. If you look at items you can get an idea of what is important. i.e. if you try to sell tickets there are templates when making up the page, you list date, venue, concert type etc.

When putting up a console there is a "format" section
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Xbox-360-Premium-Console-Brand-New-with-Warranty_W0QQitemZ330145901724QQihZ014QQcategoryZ112848QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
THis one says PAL UK. Now if this ended up PAL but for some country with 110V I would think it is misleading. Voltage is not mentioned but UK infers it is 240V.

you must list everything about the item

I was saying before that this could take a few days, the OP left out something since he didnt think it was important, and it wasnt important to the buyer in the end. He probably though the camera wouldnt work at all for him or something.

Vikings

I was just giving an example similar to this situation. I deal with these claims every day, its what I do...

In the end it has worked out in the seller's favour, my opinions on the issue were given before the resolution was reached.