Does size matter, amp size of course

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

i know a fair bit about guitars, but when i comes to amps, im not as well educated! How powerful does an amp need to be when playing live? i have a marshall mg50dfx which is grand when the band im in practice. When an amp is hooked up to a PA system via a microphone, does the size of the amp really matter?
Help would really be apriciated, as im rot really a fan of the amp i have, and when im changing it, id rather get an amp around the same power (50 watts).
Id like to get somthing like this http://www.thomann.de/ie/vox_ad50vtxl212.htm
but for the roughly the same money, i can get this http://www.thomann.de/ie/marshall_mg250dfx_combo.htm.
When they are connected to a PA system, would the power difference be an issue?

feylya

Stay away from the MG250. In terms of power needed, if you're going through a PA, 5W is more than enough. The lower the power, the sooner you can get power tube saturation (if you're using a fully tube amp) which is where the lovely tube distortion comes from.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

thanks, thats all i needed to know!! i wouldnt tuch a marshall MG DFX again (i just used that as an example), the one i have is crap!!! I really want an AC30, but im a broke student!!

novarock

5 watts is more than enough going through a PA for everyone listening, but depending on the music you are playing i think you will need more. It arises that sometimes when playing you will not have any monitor, so in a case like that you will need an amp that is loud enough to be heard over a kit as well as all the other noise on stage. My recommendation would be minimum 80 watts solid state or 30 watt tube. thats coming from experience!

judas101

you only get the best out of a ac 30 if you really really crank it (super loud!)

id go with a smaller fender tube amp if your going that route

NeMiSiS

If I didn't have 100 watts there is no way I could hear myself over the drummer, no way in hell, unless Ii was getting back a really really great monitor mix.. or an in ear monitor mix..would be nice..

Having said that, that's the amp turned up to about 6.. so not driving the total crap out of it.. depends on the music you are playing.. I was playing last night with a blues band.. and had a solidstate 100watt turned to about 3.. depends on the circumstances !

TK..

Doctor J

Last practice Acrid Nebula had, I turned the oul combo up to 1 and 3/4 and it was too loud... and we're playing thrash/death/doom stuff with an exceptionally loud drummer. Mr Fey there had to come over to verify for himself because he didn't believe it A lot of loudness issues can be solved by paying attention to frequencies, more specifially ensuring the guitars and bass aren't blasting out the same frequencies cos they'll just get in each others way... and then there are the drums too. Both bassists and guitarists need to leave room in the low frequencies for the bass drum, otherwise your drummer will instinctively play louder so he can hear what he's doing, everyone else will turn up, the drummer will play harder again, etc etc etc.

In a live setting, you really want to be as quiet as possible to ensure a good sound out front. Engineers can only control what's coming through the PA, if someone's got an amp blaring on the stage it means he can only mix relative to the loud amp, meaning your punters get **** sound for their money, more often than not. Let the PA do the loud stuff in a controlled manner, everybody wins.

Tom, have you considered running a monitor wedge from your amp rather than just the PA, facing back and up at you? That way you wouldn't have crank the amp to hear. A lot of guitar frequencies are directional, meaning whatever way the speaker is pointed is where most of the clear sound will go. When you leave a 4x12 on the ground most of it's energy is pointing at your ass. Using a wedge will aim your guitar sound at your head... which is where your ears are , it just means you can control what you hear and have your guitar as prevalent as you want without deafening the punters.

NeMiSiS

Most of the time I use a 2*12 tilted up at my head, the 4*12's we only use for bigger gigs.. even then the 2*12 suits better for some bigger gigs.

What we usually do is have the drummer play as loud as he is going to during a sound check.. and then start turning things up .. and down.. until everyone can hear one another. we usually only have whatever monitors are at the disposal of the venue.. but we are getting our own soon..

This is what we have to compete with http://file031b.bebo.com/9/large/2007/06/19/03/1193724828a4724790247l.jpg
pretty shocking kit ! Overkill too.. but hell.. rock n roll is all about overkill

At most gigs I will have my amp at 6 o clock.. but it is really only about 4.5 because I use the FX loop like a solo boost.

Rock music is loud though.. no getting away from that..

This frequency stuff sounds interesting though.. do you mean EQ'ing the guitar amps with less bass.. so you get more bass.. from where it is meant to come from.. as in the bass guitar, and drums ?

TK

Doctor J

NeMiSiS wrote:

This frequency stuff sounds interesting though.. do you mean EQ'ing the guitar amps with less bass.. so you get more bass.. from where it is meant to come from.. as in the bass guitar, and drums ?

TK

Yep, exactly. Start with the bass and bass drum, EQ the bass so it's not thin but that it allows the bass drum some room to be heard. Then with the guitars, eq them so they allow the bass room, they can co-exist without killing each other. It might sound a little thinner than usual by itself, but when everyone is playing you'll have a clearer low end and everybody should be able to hear themselves. There is a huge amount of low end out of a bass with the EQ set flat, but you'll see a lot of bass players scooping all the mids out of their sound (like a big smile on a graphic EQ) which just means mush when you get drums and guitars involved because all the frequencies which provide the instuments definition are removed. Then they'll generally turn up to compensate for their inability to make out what they're playing and it ****s everything else. For example, the tunes on the Acrid Nebula link in my sig, the guitar amp was set Low-5 Mid-7.5 High7.5 and the bass EQ was pretty flat - even though we're tuned to B, sometimes dropped A, there's plenty of low end in there but it's not muddy, nor is it thin and harsh. It's just something to experiment with and especially worth doing with a two guitar and one bass line up like yours.

Don1

neMiSiS: who's your drummer, Jose Pasillas?!!

I have a 100Watt valvestate marshall and it never needed much over 2.5 or 3 back when I was practising in a band (no longer in one ) That said I use the distortion from my GT-6 so it's effectively a mini PA combo!! Thinking of selling it to get a Fender Blues Junior instead.

NeMiSiS

J,
I will try that later at practice, and see what kind of differnce it makes. We use a rig with everything mic'ed too while we are practicing, so it should be pretty easy to... test.
TK