anyone wishing to play airsoft games at any site, Please read this

nonex

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THIS IS FOR ALL PLAYERS AND NEW AIRSOFT PLAYERS.
READ IT OR WE WILL LOSE IT.
IT'S UP TO ALL OF US

Airsoft game Rules
1. KEEP YOUR EYE PROTECTION ON
Approved eye protection must be worn at all times while in the chronograph & target range and while
in the battle zone. If you take your eye protection off in these areas you are risking the loss of an eye.
Any participant that is found not wearing eye protection in these areas will be immediately removed
from the game. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without
refund. While in the battle zone, if you must clean your eye protection, do not remove it. Wipe the
outside off with your gloves, shirtsleeve, a handkerchief or a clean soft rag. Never lift the eye
protection and wipe the inside. If they can't be wiped and/or your vision is impaired, then leave the
battle zone or call for assistance in leaving the battle zone. If your eye protection comes off, comes
loose from the frame, comes loose at the strap or lens cracks in the battle zone, place your hands
over your eyes, drop to the ground, call out: "EMERGENCY!" and yell for assistance. Do not look up.
Anyone assisting must hover over the participant until he gets the eye protection on and/or is
escorted out of the battle zone. Never shoot at anyone who is not wearing approved eye protection.

2. REMOVE THE MAGAZINE FROM THE WEAPON, DISCHARGE ANY CHAMBERED ROUNDS
AND TURN THE SELECTOR TO SAFE.
Magazines should be removed, selectors should be on safe while in the staging and parking areas,
before and after choreographing and target shooting in the chronograph & target range and before
and after the game in the battle zone. If you leave your magazine engaged, the weapon in fire mode
in these areas and/or at these times you are risking accidental discharge of your weapon. Any
participant found with a magazine engaged, a weapon not selected to safe in these areas and/or at
these times will be warned. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the
day without refund.

3. NO DISCHARGING OF WEAPONS EXCEPT INSIDE THE CHRONOGRAPH AND TARGET RANGE AND IN THE BATTLE ZONE.
Weapons should not be discharged in the staging or parking areas. This also means no discharging blank shots. If you discharge your weapon in these areas you are risking accidentally shooting a participant who is not wearing eye protection. Any participant found discharging his weapon in these
areas will be warned. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
Any participant not abiding by or abusing these rules will be dismissed by the airsoft site without refund.

ADMINISTRATIVE
• All participants must read/watch/listen to all rules and procedures of play before games can begin.
• The use of alcohol and drugs is prohibited. Intoxicated persons will be dismissed for the day without refund.
• Props and identification devices may not be altered in any way.

EQUIPMENT
• Only airsoft approved equipment is allowed. Firearms, knives, and explosives are strictly forbidden.
• Observe all safety rules applicable to firearms when handling Airsoft weapons or other devices capable of
launching projectiles.

EYE PROTECTION
Goggles/Facemasks with ear protection or balaclavas are required. Eye protection must meet the following requirements:
1. Polycarbonate lens construction that meets or exceeds ANSI Z87.1 or ANSI Z80.3 standards.
2. Eye protection must set securely against the face. No gaps that a 6mm pellet could pass through may be present.
3. Airsoft Wire Mesh Goggles are allowed if approved by the airsoft site.

WEAPON VELOCITY
• All participants intending to use their own equipment must report to the chronograph & target range after signing in.
• Field velocity limit is 328 FPS with .20 gram BBs
• All Airsoft Guns will be choreographed before and after each round.
• Any participant found not abiding by or abusing these standards will be warned. If this happens twice the
participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.


BOUNDARY
• The active battle zone boundaries are designated . No participant may move outside the perimeter of the
active battle zone. Participants that travel out of bounds during play are automatically eliminated.
• Participants may not shoot through the boundaries into other areas of play.

INITIATION AND CESSATION
• Games start and stop with a horn or whistle blow.
• Participants can stop the game in a case of emergency. Participants can call out: "EMERGENCY!" if there is an injury or someone's eye protection is off. During an EMERGENCY, all participants must stop play.
• No faking of injuries. This is not an acceptable tactic.

COVER
• No rearranging the battle zone in any way or building of barricades. There are a few movable walls and carts that will be described by the referee that can be used.
• No participant may take with him into the battle zone or fashion while there, an object designed to function as a shield against being hit, unless previously approved by HRTA personnel.

ELIMINATING THE OPPONENT
• Blind shooting is disallowed.
• Deliberate point blank shots are not allowed. Deliberate point blank shots are cause for immediate removal from the game. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
•However, we discourage shooting at the head, neck and groin areas. No participant may intentionally shoot at any other participant's head or face. Repeats will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
GETTING HIT
• Rounds that ricochet and hit do not count.
• If a participant's weapon is hit, it is considered useless.
• A participant that shoots himself or is shot by his own team mate is eliminated.
• If two participants hit each other simultaneously, both participants are eliminated.
• Any participant caught ignoring a hit during play will be considered eliminated and will be warned. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.

ELIMINATION
• If a participant is hit anywhere, excluding the weapon, he is eliminated.
• An eliminated participant must raise his arms and call out that he's been hit.
• An eliminated participant should raise, remove his magazine, discharge any chambered rounds, turn the selector to safe, hold his weapon above his head and report to the staging area.
• An eliminated participant must remain at the staging area until the end of the game.
• No "liberating" of weapons and/or equipment from eliminated participants unless consent is verbally expressed beforehand.
• Eliminated participants are not allowed to communicate in any way with other active participants.
• Eliminated participants should leave their eye protection on. Never assume that everyone knows the game is over or hears the whistle.
• Active participants that walk with eliminated participants will automatically become eliminated participants. In the past, this unacceptable tactic has been used to trick participants.
• Eliminated participants should not shoot while on the way to and from the staging area, as this will distract and confuse active participants. This also means no discharging blank shots.

NEUTRALITY
• A neutrality symbol would be a weapon, without a magazine, held above the head.
• A participant is emphatically disallowed from shooting at any other participant showing a neutrality symbol, any non-participant or any staff member.
• No one may deliberately shoot an eliminated participant, staff member or spectator. Participants who do so will be immediately removed from the game. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
• Active participants that fire upon eliminated participants who do not clearly display the elimination signals and procedures cannot be held accountable.
• Eliminated participants, staff members, or spectators cannot be used as cover or shields.

SURRENDER
• Participants may ask opponents within 10ft to surrender, but the opponent is not required to respond. If they do respond that they surrender, it is the same as being eliminated.




HONOR
• Participants with tempers should leave them at home. Participants may not contact or grab anyone in an
Aggressive manner.
• Participants may not aggressively touch anyone or cause anyone to fall. Violation of this rule is cause for
Immediate and permanent removal without refund.
• No unsportsmanlike conduct, arguments, threats, racial or personal derogatoriness, abusive or foul language,
taunting, provoking, obscene gestures, or verbal aggression is allowed.
• Participants reported to be shouting "YOU'RE HIT!" or similar phrases at other participants will be considered to be displaying aggressive behaviour and will be warned. If this happens twice the participants will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
• Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt.

PHYSICAL
If a participant is out of shape or gets too hot, he should pace himself. Take up a defensive position and rest. The action will eventually come to the participant. The game can be more physically demanding than participants may be used to.

Participants with heart conditions or other ailments should have a physician's OK to play.
Airsoft is an inherently dangerous activity, requiring significant physical exertion. Participation carries inherent risks that cannot be eliminated. Risks include, but are not limited to, minor injuries (such as scratches, bruised or strained muscles and ligaments), major injuries (such as loss of eyesight, joint or back injuries,

CrazyRabbit

"No participant may intentionally shoot at any other participant's head or face"

This is what causes 90% of the arguments. How do you prove a hit to the head was intentional or unintentional? You can't.

Also, even a person who never deliberately shoots for the head is, at some point, going to hit someone in the head. Airsoft AEG's are not incredible accurate, especially at range or when firing from the hip.

They way I see it is this. Head shots should be acceptable. While painfull, I have no problem being shot in the head/neck. I have the option to wear a full face mask, helmet and/or neoprane mask/scarf/sheemagh....as does everyone else. If you don't want to be hit in the face/neck, then wear the protective items or stop moaning about it when hit.

Saying this, I know that many people only wear goggles, and I do try my best to not shoot at their heads. But, sometimes it's hard to see if they have a full mask, or I turn around quickly and fire, hittng someone across the chest/neck/head.

I know that many players, especially snipers find it hard to aim with a full face mask. But, I would be in favour of mandatory full face masks. A high mounted scope is all that is needed. It works fine for me. And paintballers seem to have no problem with this either (I'm a paintballer noob though, so I may be wrong about this)

No matter what, if you do get hurt, or get a rather painfull hit to the face/neck/groin, it's a fair assumption to make that it was not deliberate. I don't think I've seen anyone running around trying to get headshots etc. 99.9% of the time it's an accident.

[--SC(+)PE--]

agreed with CR on all ofthat

CrazyRabbit

Oh, and I'd like to re-quote the following for emphasis. There was a flagrant disregard for the these rules/guidelines on saturday.


HONOR
• Participants with tempers should leave them at home. Participants may not contact or grab anyone in an
Aggressive manner.
• Participants may not aggressively touch anyone or cause anyone to fall. Violation of this rule is cause for
Immediate and permanent removal without refund.
• No unsportsmanlike conduct, arguments, threats, racial or personal derogatoriness, abusive or foul language,
taunting, provoking, obscene gestures, or verbal aggression is allowed.
• Participants reported to be shouting "YOU'RE HIT!" or similar phrases at other participants will be considered to be displaying aggressive behaviour and will be warned. If this happens twice the participants will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
• Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt.

Fallschirmjager

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Oh, and I'd like to re-quote the following for emphasis. There was a flagrant disregard for the these rules/guidelines on saturday.


HONOR
• Participants with tempers should leave them at home. Participants may not contact or grab anyone in an
Aggressive manner.
• Participants may not aggressively touch anyone or cause anyone to fall. Violation of this rule is cause for
Immediate and permanent removal without refund.
• No unsportsmanlike conduct, arguments, threats, racial or personal derogatoriness, abusive or foul language,
taunting, provoking, obscene gestures, or verbal aggression is allowed.
• Participants reported to be shouting "YOU'RE HIT!" or similar phrases at other participants will be considered to be displaying aggressive behaviour and will be warned. If this happens twice the participants will be removed permanently for the day without refund.
• Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt.

personally i think it should be mandatory for face and neck coverage. its bloody sore to get hit on the neck and face and i dont think this is the image we want to portray about airsoft. it actually attracts the wrong element. i am sorry to say i disagree on the aiming part. someone who is angry, tends to shoot that way. i dont know what happened on saturday and with you highlighting the above, i really dont want to know, except whoever it was should be kicked off the IAA (if they are on it), and suspended from play for 3 months or longer if it got physical. personally if it was up to me, ban them, we are a new sport, and one or 2 players can bugger this up for us all.

Fiach Dubh

Nobody got physical yesterday as far as I know unless I missed something. And full face protection outdoors shouldn't be mandatory. There's a huge demograph of players who like to aim their AEG's, myself included by the iron sights. It's not face hits that are the problem, simply excesive firing to the face at closer ranges is. I've taken multiple face hits and not complained about them. Of course somebody could be startled and an accident may occur, that's to be expected, happens to the best of them. Yesterday however there was some cavalier firing with little regard to safety.

Mark_Sc

I agree with fiach here, no one is making poeple have to leave their head unprotected, but untill airsoft has good footing that has to change.
I don't mind headshots what so ever... but i know not everyone is like that.
I also would like to stress that the eye and ear are completly irepairable if damaged so they both defenitly need to be covered at all times. Teeth can be repaired but are very expensive to do so i think they need to be covered aswell. And noses can also be broken in parts, the noses has lots of fragile bone in places as well and though it would be very difficult to break someones nose in any place but since airsoft is already on the way out we need to do all we can prevent any of the above from happening.
I think it needs to be manditory so wear goggles and a balaclava(or other padding that covers our face and ears) or face mask.
And if a player dosent mind being hit in the head or neck thats fine as long as no-one makes people who don't want that risk it(though I'm sure I need not say that.


Another very importent thing to think about is that airsoft(at least as we know it) is already on the way out. There have been a number of robberies with gun replicas and a gaurd got shot in the face with one a short while ago.
Some people seem unable to understand that we don't just need to portray airsoft as a safesport to save it, we need alot more. Things like cancer curing bb's and airsoft gunss that can put a roof over the heads of homeless kids in africa. (just something for us to think about)

Fallschirmjager

Mark_Sc wrote:

I agree with fiach here, no one is making poeple have to leave their head unprotected, but untill airsoft has good footing that has to change.
I don't mind headshots what so ever... but i know not everyone is like that.
I also would like to stress that the eye and ear are completly irepairable if damaged so they both defenitly need to be covered at all times. Teeth can be repaired but are very expensive to do so i think they need to be covered aswell. And noses can also be broken in parts, the noses has lots of fragile bone in places as well and though it would be very difficult to break someones nose in any place but since airsoft is already on the way out we need to do all we can prevent any of the above from happening.
I think it needs to be manditory so wear goggles and a balaclava(or other padding that covers our face and ears) or face mask.
And if a player dosent mind being hit in the head or neck thats fine as long as no-one makes people who don't want that risk it(though I'm sure I need not say that.


Another very importent thing to think about is that airsoft(at least as we know it) is already on the way out. There have been a number of robberies with gun replicas and a gaurd got shot in the face with one a short while ago.
Some people seem unable to understand that we don't just need to portray airsoft as a safesport to save it, we need alot more. Things like cancer curing bb's and airsoft gunss that can put a roof over the heads of homeless kids in africa. (just something for us to think about)

well if politicians cant cure cancer or homeless in africa, i dont think its fair to expect airsoft to.

Mark_Sc

Fallschirmjager wrote:

well if politicians cant cure cancer or homeless in africa, i dont think its fair to expect airsoft to.

It was a metaphore and i think if we can't show something good about airsoft then we may be screwed

o1s1n

Mark_Sc wrote:

Another very importent thing to think about is that airsoft(at least as we know it) is already on the way out.

What do you mean by that? You privy to some information the rest of us aren't? If you're not, that's a a pretty big assumption you've just made.

Mark_Sc wrote:

There have been a number of robberies with gun replicas and a gaurd got shot in the face with one a short while ago.

This is all starting to sound like some journalistic sensationalism. Making comments like that is not wise. All it does is reaffirm negative opinions of airsoft. Also, It really has nothing to do with us wearing full face protection...People assault other people with golf clubs. You don't see golf players then deciding to wear full face masks....?

Not to mention that making people wear full face masks in a way admits that it's too dangerous to play without. Which it is not. It's a much safer sport to play than some others in which you must wear them. Something I think we actually have going for ourselves.

Fallschirmjager

Mark_Sc wrote:

Then it may already be over

well i think we have to fight that. if we roll over or dont get organised, yes i totally agree with you. we need a united front and not to fall to that old chestnut about how uber scary airsoft is. hence my reaction to the rules, initially we need very very strict rules for play. we should deal with those players with an iron fist and ban them. its like cheating in golf...that is its worst crime. we need to do the same. basically we should refuse to play with players like that. we should have no place for that. i think we should adopt the rules nonex has identified as the basis for our IAA document. we need to play very straight and tough here.

as for robberies and people getting shot in the face, that has always happened even before airsoft was legalised. terrible as it is, that is why they are criminals, should we ban kitchen knives and gold clubs as well??. a law banning airsoft wont make a difference. if you have already crossed the rubicon to commit bank robberies, i dont think you would be too concerned about airsoft laws.

i think the IAA should be going to the minister and saying we need laws in these areas (areas as yest unspecified) of airsoft. get our retaliation in first, so to speak. hence my rant before on over 18, etc etc etc.

i believe we can sustain airsoft..it needs our support, from all areas ranging from the ridiculous to the serious. honour and code are the rules for airsoft, if someone doesnt have that, they have nothing IMHO..and airsoft is not for them

gandalf

Jebsus someone has been watching too many dramas on TV.

Criminals will carry out criminal activities with or without Airsoft.

I think the issue being highlighted by Paul here is if you want to play the game you have to adhere by the rules and it looks like people didn't do that yesterday. What this thread is doing is reminding people what the rules are. Personally I prefer wearing a face mask because firstly I am a big jessie and I hate pain and secondally I have to meet customers in my job and I would prefer to do that with out lumps taken out of my face and missing teeth.

As far as I am concerned I am a bigger danger to society playing golf than airsoft.

Fallschirmjager

gandalf wrote:

Jebsus someone has been watching too many dramas on TV.

Criminals will carry out criminal activities with or without Airsoft.

I think the issue being highlighted by Paul here is if you want to play the game you have to adhere by the rules and it looks like people didn't do that yesterday. What this thread is doing is reminding people what the rules are. Personally I prefer wearing a face mask because firstly I am a big jessie and I hate pain and secondally I have to meet customers in my job and I would prefer to do that with out lumps taken out of my face and missing teeth.

As far as I am concerned I am a bigger danger to society playing golf than airsoft.

BAWHAHAHAHAH!!!! well you hit that one right down the fairway LOL...

gandalf

LOL I'm the only person I know that can get a ball to go 90 degrees on a driving range. Lots of nervous people in the bays beside me after that

Lemming

In relation to Mark_sc's comments, to be honest, if criminals want to get their hands on 'real-steel' they can do so with little hassle, and one unfortunate incident with airsoft equipment being abused does not suddenly mean OMFG BAN EVERYTHING, despite what certain reactionary elements of society might have you think.

I don't think blaming the media is an issue here in that regard because the media simply gives society what society itself wants to read about.

Incidentally, how do you know if a robbery was committed with a replica or not unless it gets "used" (god forbidding that such situations ever happen)? I'd also wager a substancial sum of money on the ratio of real-steel vs. airsoft/marker/toy/insert-other-alternative being something like "uber-ridiuclously high vs. 0.000001%", which might suggest to any intelligible person that the entire argument is a straw-man that detracts from the real issue in such circumstances (which isn't airsoft)

As for the rules, whatever site your on, you play by their rules or leave.

The only rule I personally might argue with is the requirement for full face protection when outdoors. Whilst I would encourage people to wear full-face masks, if they choose to wear approved googles or the like, that's their decision and can't complain when they do get hit.

I'd also perhaps suggest that head-shots should be discouraged, but if they happen ... they happen and that's that. For example, my first time out at HRTA (with full mask), I was prone on the grass trying to move in on a 'defender' who was also prone but all I could see was his mask and gun, so I called out to him to surrender because if I fired all I had to aim at was the head and gun (considering we were less than 10 ft from eaceh other). I didn't want to fire blind and I most certainly didn't want to aim deliberately for his head so I gave him options. In fairness, had he said "no" I still wouldn't have fired either blindly or at his head. I think the player in question was "Eyes Only"? As a result, we both had a bit of fun, and nobody came off the worse for wear.

Mark_Sc

o1s1n wrote:

What do you mean by that? You privy to some information the rest of us aren't? If you're not, that's a a pretty big assumption you've just made.




This is all starting to sound like some journalistic sensationalism. Making comments like that is not wise. All it does is reaffirm negative opinions of airsoft. Also, It really has nothing to do with us wearing full face protection...People assault other people with golf clubs. You don't see golf players then deciding to wear full face masks....?

Not to mention that making people wear full face masks in a way admits that it's too dangerous to play without. Which it is not. It's a much safer sport to play than some others in which you must wear them. Something I think we actually have going for ourselves.

I was talking to Will at crossfire(he runs the place and has alot of dealings with the gaurds and talk about firearms etc.) and we started to talk about airsoft and he said that when the gaurds come up every now and then they sometimes talk about airsoft. Two of them told him that they(law wrighters, for want of a better name) are going to come down hard on airsoft, perhaps make it completly illeagal. He was also told that people have reported being shot and one guard was shot in the face. And i don't doubt what he said for a second, if he tells me that a guard told him that another gaurd was shot in the face then i believe him, you should too. None of what I said was fabrication it was a mixture of truth and my honest opinion(tecnically I make that up but were all intelligent people no need to be smart).

Guys if the law sees airsoft as nothing but a small threat to part of sociaty but an advantage to only a tiny part of it it will ban it. Yes knives can harm someone much easier than an AEG but they are a key tool in our lives. As for golf, golf has been around for years and now has a good reputation, thousands of players, competitions and the like. Unfortunatly any replica gun is going to be associated with real ones and how bad they are, I was just trying to show that we need to follow rules like nonex' if we want to keep our beloved sport leagal. Sorry to hijack the thread I just thought that
here was a decent place to add my two cents.

And Oisin if golf involved hitting the ball towards other players in an attempt to hit them then I think they would wear full face masks.

Once again sorry for moving the thread off topic and I certainly don't think there should be a rule that says you have to wear a full face mask outdoors but it really is nessary indoors

o1s1n

Mark_Sc wrote:

I was talking to Will at crossfire(he runs the place and has alot of dealings with the gaurds and talk about firearms etc.) and we started to talk about airsoft and he said that when the gaurds come up every now and then they sometimes talk about airsoft. Two of them told him that they(law wrighters, for want of a better name) are going to come down hard on airsoft, perhaps make it completly illeagal. He was also told that people have reported being shot and one guard was shot in the face. And i don't doubt what he said for a second, if he tells me that a guard told him that another gaurd was shot in the face then i believe him, you should too. None of what I said was fabrication it was a mixture of truth and my honest opinion(tecnically I make that up but were all intelligent people no need to be smart).

Guys if the law sees airsoft as nothing but a small threat to part of sociaty but an advantage to only a tiny part of it it will ban it. Yes knives can harm someone much easier than an AEG but they are a key tool in our lives. As for golf, golf has been around for years and now has a good reputation, thousands of players, competitions and the like. Unfortunatly any replica gun is going to be associated with real ones and how bad they are, I was just trying to show that we need to follow rules like nonex' if we want to keep our beloved sport leagal. Sorry to hijack the thread I just thought that
here was a decent place to add my two cents.

And Oisin if golf involved hitting the ball towards other players in an attempt to hit them then I think they would wear full face masks.

To be honest, I generally take things I hear like that with a pinch of salt. You'll have to remember, the Gardai as far as we've been informed were in on the change as they were sick of ballistic testing 'toys'. That, combined with the recent attempted auction of a load of gear would say that they aren't considering such actions.

It's all just hearsay and 'my mate heard..' at the moment. Shouldn't jump to any conclusions till we hear some actual facts.

You picked up my golf comparison wrong. I was saying that golf clubs being used in crime wouldn't then mean face masks would be needed in the sport. Same with airsoft. It just doesn't make sense.

Lemming

One thing to perhaps consider ... and no disrespect to any site operators (indeed I've attended crossfire many, many times and used to have mates work up there throughout college), but paintball sites will be, and are, coming into increasingly direct competition with airsoft. So there may well be an element of vested-interest in that particular anecdote you've been told mark. There may not of course, but it is something to consider in looking at the big picture.

o1s1n

Lemming wrote:

One thing to perhaps consider ... and no disrespect to any site operators (indeed I've attended crossfire many, many times and used to have mates work up there throughout college), but crossfire, like all paintball sites will, and are, coming into increasingly direct competition with airsoft. So there may well be an element of vested-interest in that particular anecdote you've been told mark

I've mention that to a couple of people myself. (off board) I'd be a bit reluctant to talk about it on here.

Just don't believe everything you hear. Especially if it's a paintball site/owner talking on behalf of airsoft.

Lemming

o1s1n wrote:

I've mention that to a couple of people myself. (off board) I'd be a bit reluctant to talk about it on here.

Just don't believe everything you hear. Especially if it's a paintball site/owner talking on behalf of airsoft.

Well that's all I'm trying to say. I'm not insulting Will, or any of the guys at Crossfire. I've chatted with them, played many, many a game up there and it is indeed it is the site I suggest people try above the others I've played at (and shall not name).

o1s1n

Or, may I just add to that. An airsoft site owner talking on behalf of paintball.

They're all businesses in the end. Which at times can become cut throat if they are threatened.

But anyway, that's as much as I'm going to say on that matter. Paintball and airsoft are similar enough that we should all get along. (And who knows, maybe even play each others sport)

ambro25

Gotta stick my nose in for a sec'

Firstly, and of course, those rules posted above by Paul are -
(i) cast iron, and
(ii) in the document signed by each and every player before they ever start playing at HRTA (if I'm not mistaken).

Secondly, it's worth reminding everyone that whilst there may be a fair few paintball sites about the place by now, there's only one airsoft place atm and that's Paul's . If the sport in the Republic is going to mature into anything, that's where it will start from, and long may it continue.

So it's in every player's interest to support that startup business, not so much from a financial POV (every player pays anyway), but by -
(i) contributing to a positive all-around experience for all other players, and
(ii) preventing any form of jeopardy to HRTA that could arise from stupid/moronic accidents on site. So, essentially, by simple adherence to those rules at all times.

The above said, there are many problems, the sort of which have been alluded to since yesterday, which are (IMHO) entirely inherent to the activity of 'skirmishing' and will forever arise at some stage or other: I don't think such problems are linked to the above rules, but that they arise in particular situations at particular moments in time, such as found during 'combat'.

IMHO again, it all boils down to this: to achieve a stable playing environment requires every single participant to provide 110% fair play on the day.

nonex

the problem with the head shots is everyone has got so good at hideing and cover, that they now only put there head out and so you get hit in the head,
new players dont know this, so remember that, as i have said to players let them come out in to the open and then you can shoot them in the body and not the head,and that head you see peeping out might be bystander and not an airsoft player, know your shot before you take it

If you don't want to be hit in the face/neck, then wear the protective items or stop moaning about it when hit.

o1s1n

nonex wrote:

If you don't want to be hit in the face/neck, then wear the protective items or stop moaning about it when hit.

People who don't wear face masks are moaning about head shots..?

If they are that's absolutely ridiculous. If you're in the gaming area then you're liable to be hit anywhere. It's just how the game goes.

I know I try and avoid taking head shots myself. I would imagine most people would too. But if it happens, it happens. Take the hit and maybe think about wearing face protection in future.

MaxForce

As ye are discussing head shots, ASI Recently done a poll on head shots. Some of the responses varied. Here are the results of that poll for those of you who don't have access to ASi. For those of you that do click here. and read the discussion.


Shot him in the head with out caring [ 21 ] [56.76%]
shout the bang rule [ 4 ] [10.81%]
don't shoot at all [ 0 ] [0.00%]
Depends who it is. [ 3 ] [8.11%]
wait for a safer shot, But risk being hit yourself [ 9 ] [24.32%]

To be honest, the first one could have been worded better or another answer put in Like Shoot them in the head but only if wearing face protection and so on. I don't think many would take a shot without caring. I voted for number 1 but stipulated that it would be done only after weighing up several factors and was not done without due care.

ASI Casper

The actual results from that poll don't really give anything of value as the various responses didn't really cover all the possible options properly. There was a lot of good discussion in the thread itself though.

As o1s1n says, It's just how the game goes sometimes.It's part & parcel of the sport.
New players to the sport should ruminate on this: Airsoft is as much about getting shot as it is about shooting.

nonex wrote:

Airsoft is an inherently dangerous activity

Would have to disagree rather strongly with that phrase though. If it's inherently dangerous then we shouldn't play. A much better ( and more accurate ) phrase might be: "Airsoft, like any other sport, can be potentially hazardous"
A subtle but important difference if you want to warn people without actually scaring them off.

Also "Participation carries inherent risks that cannot be eliminated" ---> "Participation carries potential risks that have been minimized as much as possible but cannot be eliminated completely"?

Fallschirmjager

some good point there asi....

i agree that statistically speaking using only 37 or so people can lead to some incorrect assumptions, but i for one will be wearing a mask always....

ambro25

On the topic of headshots, what Paul/nonex said (much more clearly than me just beforehand).

If you're static defense, as I was at some stage by the tanker, the most you're likely to see of the OpFor is a head and a muzzle in front of it, spitting BBs at you.

In that context, being headshot or inflicting one is nearly unavoidable - either shoot back, or just wait until one of the BBs eventually finds you and you're out. Because the OpFor isn't going to break cover once they've spotted you: they'll either coordinate with their sniper to take you out, or saturate your cover - more likely both.

And on the topic of indiscriminate fire, whilst I don't condone it "generally" (aimed rounds, marines, squeeze'em off ), again there are tactical situations in which cover fire is being laid - and sometimes finds its mark.

One of the 'incidents' Saturday was a direct result of that. I don't know that anyone recounted the story to Paul in full (before the dressing down back at base), nor do I "speak for one and all and my voice is gospel", so believe me/my side of the story if you want (I don't care either way). What happened at the river behind the tanker in early afternoon was just that: I knew there was a sniper between the hill access route and the bunker access route, so grabbed another 3 lads and we decided to flush him out. 2 of the lads were to lay down cover fire in the area while the remaining 2 of us would flank left to the river (by the stumps, from the tanker) - but as soon as the cover fire started, the sniper shouted 'Hit'. The argument was about whether those of us firing cover had stopped soon enough, and I'll pass on that - but the issue (headshots) is that the sniper took a BB of the cover fire to the forehead.

Now, I'm positive there will be a portion of the readers in here of the opinion that we 'shouldn't have fired if we couldn't see him', and another portion which might agree with both the tactical decision and my point of view (only mine on the table here), that the resulting headshot was entirely unintentional.

Finally, about bang kills - again, I had an issue on that later in the afternoon, when one of the OpFor came the hill route, while I was ambushing by the stumps. Now, the guy (soz, can't remember your name ) came fully into view and there was a split second in which we both stared at one another without doing nothing. Then I squeezed a short burst (again, soz - reflex) to the chest. But then we had a (very minor) argument: he was saying that he'd bang-killed me, yet hadn't said anything (shouted "bang") nor did I see him 'shake' his AK at me before I let out the burst (I mean it was a split-second: probably half a sec or so). In the end, we both took ourselves out.

After all, I had (as the traitor) bang killed all of my team earlier on, and also bang killed an OpFor later on, and every time I made sure they knew very clearly they were being killed: either by saying 'Bang' or shaking my M4 'suggestively' at them.

So, thinking about it since, this led me to wonder whether it should be a rule to shout 'Bang' if you're doing a bang kill: after all, not shouting anything (IMHO) gives the killer an undue tactical advantage, in that team members near the KIA can't hear the kill, which they would if the AEG was used... if you get what I mean.

Fallschirmjager

well it was really good covering fire if you hit him....hell i have lost count of the times i get shot in the arse by my own team laying down covering fire...LOL

to be honest dude, i thought it was fisty cuffs out there the way people were 'not talking'...jeeze sounds kinda harmless now...

and as for both of ye going out...well thats spot on in my opinion...if in doubt go. storm in a teacup stuff i think..

i think a lot of these issues will disappear when we start to play more regularly...its only with a lot of regular play that in my small experience, bang kills work, when you can counter balance the adreline rush with the practicalities of post match sores. so maybe we need to use the REMF or FNG with airsoft as well

gandalf

LOL its not a bang kill unless he says bang. As for covering fire surely its part of the game and tactics of such. What did these guys want a written invitation to come out and get shot.

"I say old boy is there any chance you could stand out there and take your bb'ing like a gentlemen"

ambro25

Fallschirmjager wrote:

well it was really good covering fire if you hit him

We don't know who hit him - could have been anyone of us 3 (I was 1 of the 2 flanking left, but I did let out a short burst in the general area while departing).

Fallschirmjager wrote:

to be honest dude, i thought it was fisty cuffs out there the way people were 'not talking'...jeeze sounds kinda harmless now...

No, nothing like fisty cuffs, thankfully. The main issues on the day, and I don't think I'm speaking (well...posting) out of turn here, were headshots (intentional or not - and I think that's a slippy slope one to talk about) and 'residual' firing once a player had been hit and said it. Generally, as first put by Fiach Dub earlier on.

Fallschirmjager wrote:

and as for both of ye going out...well thats spot on in my opinion...if in doubt go. storm in a teacup stuff i think..

i think a lot of these issues will disappear when we start to play more regularly...

Definitely. It's all about fair play, that's why I posted earlier on.

I hadn't done a skirmish at HRTA before and noone had told me about the river boundary for defenders (early game in morning): sure enough, I sneaked out and killed a sniper on the river bed behind the tanker. Who then informed me I was out of bounds. So he ressuscitated and I was KIA'd on a technicality - but hey, no probs with that, rulez are rulez

Crave

I know a lot of people may disagree with this but the best way to stop people shooting at other peoples head is to disallow headshots. I know this works in paint ball and I have no problem with it. Plus I found having the restricted vison of a full face mask I had to stick my head out more than usual to see. Meaning I got a burst in the face! How would you feel If headshots didn't count, If you accidently got hit in the face just ignor it and go on with play.

Shiva

I can see a lot of stalemates occuring if headshots are not counted though.

The Master

If you ban all headshots somebody can just pop their head around a corner/over some cover
and tell the rest of the team where the opposition is based without fear of getting hit.
And like Shiva says you'll get a lot of stalemates.

liamo333

Robster wrote:

If you ban all headshots somebody can just pop their head around a corner/over some cover
and tell the rest of the team where the opposition is based without fear of getting hit.
And like Shiva says you'll get a lot of stalemates.

This is what happend in the first few weeks at HRTA, very effective for the attackers but very annoying for the defenders.

If you have a problem with headshots wear a fullface mask and helmet or a neopreme mask and a bush hat or a blaclava and a hat (like me:D)