tournament, first hand, fold or play?

JoeB-

History below.... should i have folded? first hand of MTT tourney, no info or reads.... I had an overpair but was facing two ALL IN bets before me... I think I did the right thing.

NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in + $1.10 Entry Fee, Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) - Saturday, July 07, 15:05:10 GMT 2007
10 Seats GTD Sat to Daily $11k GTD #83647
Table 2 9-max (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of active players : 8
Seat 1: Infamone ( 2,000 )
Seat 2: DerAlte ( 2,000 )
Seat 3: bigpeza ( 2,000 )
Seat 4: Maserati ( 2,000 )
Seat 5: Reeshah ( 2,000 )
Seat 6: Delog ( 2,000 )
Seat 7: HERO ( 2,000 )
Seat 8: Shuffled1 ( 2,000 )
Tourney Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante))
Reeshah posts small blind [10]
Delog posts big blind [20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qs, Qh ]
HERO raises to [70]
Shuffled1 calls [70]
Infamone folds
DerAlte folds
bigpeza folds
Maserati folds
Reeshah calls [60]
Delog folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 5d, 7c ]
Reeshah bets [200]
HERO raises to [400]
Shuffled1 goes all-in
Shuffled1 raises to [1,930]
Reeshah calls [1,730]
Reeshah goes all-in
HERO folds (after some thought)
** Showdown **

Reeshah shows [ Th, 9d ] (for top pair and 'worst' likely kicker...)
Shuffled1 shows [ 4h, 4d ] (wtf???)
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
** Hand Conclusion **
Reeshah wins 4,490 from main pot with two pair, Tens and Sevens

Good news is I got a seat despite this setback...

Mr.Plough

people do this with anything in these buy in tournaments.

i'd stick it in here

Ollieboy

at that level of came its a call, I would expect to see A10 and a flush draw and been miles ahead, cant see someone not reraise preflop with KK or AA.

Your only worried about a set or a ace coming on the turn/river etc

RoadSweeper

ship it here all the time!

JoeB-

LOL... whatever about the low stakes and the poor standard... You can't expect a player to go ALL IN with an underpair! (an underpair!!!) and then another player to call an ALL IN with top pair, worst kicker...

I would have called one player... but not two.. I expected the second player to have top pair beaten, maybe an overpair, maybe two pair, a set, a flush draw (which I would have called), a straight draw (again I'd call, pot odds etc)... but overall I reckoned I was beaten and layed it down... silly silly me.

But I'll call next time and probably lose.. it was the first hand after all... I knocked the villian out on the bubble -1 two hours later, justice.

Look out 11K Tourney!

Cheers

Captain Tom

im guessing most people would be saying easy fold if the results werent up.

JoeB-

Captain Tom wrote:

im guessing most people would be saying easy fold if the results werent up.

I agree with that... the QQ simply isn't good enough to call two players down with...


The problem is that in these cheapo tourneys half the players are good and half are crap... it's impossible to tell them apart... until you have played them a little... first hand is impossible.

I have seen players call all the way to the river and beyond with 44 on a board of 10 JQK 6 (for example)... why can't they fold an underpair?

Captain Tom

there's a lot of awful players in these low buyin tournaments but most of the times here vs 2 players you'll find yourself up against sets/combodraws/pair+flushdraws etc and your equity vs this range isnt particularly good. this is pretty much the best spot you could find yourself in.

your getting good odds but folding here is fine imo.

sikes

your min riase is horrible esp if you not planning on calling an all in

Captain Tom

sikes wrote:

your min riase is horrible esp if you not planning on calling an all in

oh yeah that too.

JoeB-

sikes wrote:

your min riase is horrible esp if you not planning on calling an all in

You mean the raise from 200 to 400? What's the benefit of raising more? If he had just called and no scare cards fell I would have pushed in... and been happy to take the pot down.

My min raise was a tempter... I wanted one player to go ALL IN and I would have insta called.... the problem is that both of them went ALL IN, I expected the player due to act to fold when faced with raise, reraise.. instead he shipped it with his underpair!!! (LOL, I still can't believe that!). Then I expected the original raiser to fold, instead he shipped it as well.... then I was unsure where I stood... thought I'd fight another day... in the end I got the seat so I'm happy.

JoeB-

OK, do you mean that if I raised to say, 800, then the original better would have folded... leaving me to call the one player who was ALL IN?

Or possibly both players would have folded? (How do I extract as much as possible from my hands?)

Lazare

Min raising is bad because it gives your opponents great odds to call. I'd raise to 650 there to get HU or take it there.

ianmc38

Folding is fine.

In a $11 tourney I think you can expect to see a combination of top pair/middle pair/pair+draw/lone draw type hands to make calling here profitable.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

move up levels:p

kryogen

i havent read ur spoiler yet,i assume since alot of guys are saying call u would in fact have won the hand, i hate your min raise for a start, absolutely despise min raising in all its forms!! but to be honest i think its a pretty standard fold most of the time...i mean shud u really be ahead with one pair here?? and you dont need to gamble for your stack in the first hand surely!! i fold

JoeB-

hmmm... it seems my min raise was a disaster.... point taken, I won't be min raising much in the future...

BB was 20... he raised 10xBB, I re raised double... I wanted to get a call, if I'd gone for a raise of 600 - 800 (40BB!s) I thought he might have folded and I would have made little from my QQ which is annoying sometimes. I know the danger of giving free cards (or cheap cards) but I don't simply bet huge all the time with the best current hand in order to take the pot there and then. (Some of) these players know nothing of pot odds and will call with a draw even if mathamatically unsound.

If I raised to 800 and he called I wouldn't have any extra info, he could still be just a muppet and I've have a lot of money in at that stage... but I do realise that in this situation in the future I will raise the pot (about 610 here)

Cheers
Joe

Lazare

JoeBallantine wrote:

BB was 20... he raised 10xBB, I re raised double... I wanted to get a call, if I'd gone for a raise of 600 - 800 (40BB!s) I thought he might have folded and I would have made little from my QQ which is annoying sometimes. I know the danger of giving free cards (or cheap cards) but I don't simply bet huge all the time with the best current hand in order to take the pot there and then. (Some of) these players know nothing of pot odds and will call with a draw even if mathamatically unsound.

First off, your opponent bet the pot, it's pretty irrelevent how many BB's it is, secondly, if players behind you will call with bad odds that's a good thing, you want them to make a mistake, by min raising you are offering them the correct price to call, therefore you are the one making the mistake.

eggie

Folding is good here a lot of the time.

Hate the min raise on the flop though. Cant win a tournament on the first hand. wp.

JoeB-

ok... i have a new question...

what is an appropriate raise pre flop in this situation? I raised 3.5 BB but this isn't enough... mainly because the implied odds justify a call with nearly any two cards, after all people have 96 BBs behind.

If people call and hit a monster and the original raise indicated a high pair rather than just high cards they will likely make good money. A monster being two pair or a set compared to the lone high pair. Or even a good drawing hand.

So the raise preflop must be big enough to discourage people from entering the pot cheaply, but yet not so big that everyone folds and I only make a pitifully small 30 chips with the 3rd or 4th best starting hand.

So what would people recommend (for a preflop raise with QQ)? 200? 350? 600? etc etc

Cheers
Joe

JoeB-

Hi

I'm bumping this thread up cause I'd appreciate some opinions on my question just above about the correct pre flop raise with QQ. As I say the rasie to 70 from 20 doesn't have the desired effect of making people fold rubbish hands... so should it be 200 to 250?

Cheers
Joe

Washout

sikes wrote:

your min riase is horrible esp if you not planning on calling an all in

Agreed 100%

I'm bumping this thread up cause I'd appreciate some opinions on my question just above about the correct pre flop raise with QQ. As I say the rasie to 70 from 20 doesn't have the desired effect of making people fold rubbish hands... so should it be 200 to 250?

your raise is fine...you want action with your premium pocket pairs not get the table folding pf.

Tar.Aldarion

Call, if you are lucky enough to be Irish, you are lucky enough.