Mortal Strike warriors are the new warlocks.

Binomate

qq.

Fremen

Hmm...
I kind of think that a post like that would be more at home on the wow forums.

Care to expand on that in some sort of intelligent way?

DRakE

i dont get it, ms warriors can soulstone?

cance

without a healer they're nothing...

but still yes, QQ i agree.

/warlock

Binomate

Arms warriors at the minute are clearly the overpowered in pvp. They have bleed effects that can't be removed, they have probably the most powerfull movement slowing affect there currently is in the game, they have a powerfull mele attack that deals damage and applys a debuff that halfs healing, which can be applied again before the debuff ends, they're wearing plate and the damage they output is rediculous.

They are the new warlocks because warlocks were once the overpowered class in pvp. They have clearly lost that title to the Arms warrior.

Flex

Binomate wrote:

Arms warriors at the minute are clearly the overpowered in pvp. They have bleed effects that can't be removed, they have probably the most powerfull movement slowing affect there currently is in the game, they have a powerfull mele attack that deals damage and applys a debuff that halfs healing, which can be applied again before the debuff ends, they're wearing plate and the damage they output is rediculous.

They are the new warlocks because warlocks were once the overpowered class in pvp. They have clearly lost that title to the Arms warrior.

Mortal Strike just does weopan damage + a flat amount (210 at lvl 70 IIRC)? Its basically an auto attack + 210. Warriors are fine, just get them in combat before they have a chance to charge or just CC them and kill their healer. The healing debuff is fine too IMO, more classes should be given healing debuffs to counter powerful heals in PvP.

Besides warriors have always been told "You suckz in 1 on 1 PvP, get a healerand you rule", only problem was nobody every bothers healing in BG's (even if youre the flag carrier in WSG or tanking an NPC in Alterac Valley, priests are shadow, Druids are in animal form, etc.) and if a teammate died he just had to wait ~30 seconds to ress so no big deal (I was in AV on my level 53 Prot specced Pala today, with a mana pool of 3125 and healing gear giving +183 healing I came out as top healer in the BG). Now in Arena teamwork is actually important, so Warriors actually have teammates who will heal them and now healers have to heal through the MS debuff.

Binomate

Flex wrote:

Mortal Strike just does weopan damage + a flat amount (210 at lvl 70 IIRC)? Its basically an auto attack + 210. Warriors are fine, just get them in combat before they have a chance to charge or just CC them and kill their healer. The healing debuff is fine too IMO, more classes should be given healing debuffs to counter powerful heals in PvP.

The healing debuff is not fine. The only heals casted in arenas, are 1.5 second casts or instant casts. They are very weak heals, and you can not out heal a mortal strike warrior doing massive damage on a target with the healing debuff. It's nearly impossible. My flash heal only heal for about 1k on a target with the healing debuff from Mortal Strike. The warrior is doing constant damage, meanwhile I'm spam healing the target becuase the target can't get away from the warrior due to hamstring being spammed and costing only 10 rage, or due to the warrior intercepting the target if he does manage to get out of mele range. So my role as a healer against a mortal stike warrior is replacing the normal damage that's being done to the target and hoping the warrior doesn't crit. If I get silenced or my spells get pushback, thats the target probably dead or open to be executed. The problem is they do way too much damage with good gear. When they have a healer friend, like a paladin, they are almost impossible to kill if you don't kill the paladin first, which is hard enough to do. Hence one of the best 2v2 teams in arena at the minute is Warrior and Paladin.

All of this is assuming that they go for the target first before they go for the healer. For me as a priest, if I have a warrior charge me, epecially if he's specced in to maces, it's game over. I might be able to burn my trinket and try kite him a little, but my role as a healer is gone. My role becomes surviving the warrior for as long as possible, before he eventually kills me.

cance

couldnt agree more bino.

me (t4 warlock) came up against a holy priest and ms warrior in lakeshire last weekend...

it took a druid, lock and pally to get these two pricks down, and just barely at that... his HP was over 16,000 and the priests 8,000.

granted im affliction, so my burst dps isnt brilliant.

Mr. CooL ICE

I just respecced shadow PVP, and I must say, MS warriors are as hard to kill as warlocks these days. It doesn't seem to matter what gear they are wearing - I have had my ass handed to me by both gladiator set-clad warriors and others in greens and the Crystalforged War Axe. Whatever about MS being an overpowered ability - these guys are too damn hard to kill, plain and simple.

BKtje

You do realise that warriors are the easiest class to kite in the game? They have zero ranged attacks and if they aint in melee range they are useless. If he had 16k hp and did a lot of damage then he must have had some fairly decent gear (or he sacraficed damage).

Binomate

B-K-DzR wrote:

You do realise that warriors are the easiest class to kite in the game?

That's bullshit. Not only do warriors have an array of charges, but once they get you in mele range, they can keep you there. It's a lot easier for a warrior to get in mele range than it is for someone to kite a warrior.

cance

Binomate wrote:

That's bullshit. Not only do warriors have an array of charges, but once they get you in mele range, they can keep you there.

agreed, hamstring, fear immune, seduce immune (or high resist anyway) how the hell can you cc that which pwn's you in 5 seconds flat... at least with a warlock you get to view the pretty scenery as you run around like a muppet in fear.

BKtje

That's bull****. Not only do warriors have an array of charges,

Warriors have two charges one of which is out of combat only. You see a warrior, you dot him or ice lance or sw:p or any insta cast and he can't charge. Intercept is serker stance only, 30sec cooldown (unless talented but then your fury not arms).

but once they get you in mele range, they can keep you there.

Unless you use fear or whatever cc abilities you have (yes they can bring it in all stances if fury spec or once every 30 in serker).

It's a lot easier for a warrior to get in mele range than it is for someone to kite a warrior

Most classes have some way of getting distance from a warrior if they couldn't get the ooc charge in. If they do its somewhat harder (unless your a mage ).

agreed, hamstring, fear immune, seduce immune (or high resist anyway)

Fear immune is once every 3 minutes if they have fury or arms/fury (neither of which are pvp builds). If they are serker stance they are fear immune for 10 secs every 30. Seduce immune/high resist is news to me. Its the sure fire way to beat a warrior is seduce spam.

Rogues have blind/slowing poison/stun lock.
Warlocks have seduce/lolcoil/fear
Shaman have frostshock/earthbind
Pally's have plate as well and HoJ
Mage...fire use mana shield to stop his rage buildup, frost just close eyes and press random buttons for easy win, arcane use slow.
Hunter..can usualy kite warrior to death
priest..pw:s early to stop rage buildup and fear when not in serker.

I'm not saying it's easy (unless your a lock with succu or a mage) but to say you can't stay away from em is silly.

I agree that if a pvp spec warrior is in melee range he destroys most classes but the mission of any warrior is to get there as anything else is effectively their "dead zone"

Flex

Binomate wrote:

The healing debuff is not fine. The only heals casted in arenas, are 1.5 second casts or instant casts. They are very weak heals, and you can not out heal a mortal strike warrior doing massive damage on a target with the healing debuff. It's nearly impossible. My flash heal only heal for about 1k on a target with the healing debuff from Mortal Strike. The warrior is doing constant damage, meanwhile I'm spam healing the target becuase the target can't get away from the warrior due to hamstring being spammed and costing only 10 rage, or due to the warrior intercepting the target if he does manage to get out of mele range. So my role as a healer against a mortal stike warrior is replacing the normal damage that's being done to the target and hoping the warrior doesn't crit. If I get silenced or my spells get pushback, thats the target probably dead or open to be executed. The problem is they do way too much damage with good gear. When they have a healer friend, like a paladin, they are almost impossible to kill if you don't kill the paladin first, which is hard enough to do. Hence one of the best 2v2 teams in arena at the minute is Warrior and Paladin.

All of this is assuming that they go for the target first before they go for the healer. For me as a priest, if I have a warrior charge me, epecially if he's specced in to maces, it's game over. I might be able to burn my trinket and try kite him a little, but my role as a healer is gone. My role becomes surviving the warrior for as long as possible, before he eventually kills me.

As I said, Warriors have always been told "Shut up complaining, Get a healer, youre made for group PvP. You suck in 1v1 but with a healer/dispeller backing you up youre great" when they asked why so many classes can kite them and kill them so easily (with the exception of Rogues). But in BGs nobody ever bothers to heal anyone else 98% of the time. Now in arenas if one of your teammates dies it gimps your team and puts you at a big disadvantage so people are actually gonna heal their Warrior teammates.

The plain and obvious fact that the MS healing debuff was never complained about prior to Arenas is proof that what Im saying is true and as I already said, Mortal Strike just does weopan damage + 210 at its highest rank, its the same as an autoattack with 210 added onto it.

And as far as I know, that Charm/Seduce immune is a 5 point talent in the Arms tree that gives 15% resistance at the cost of 5 talent points.

Binomate wrote:

That's bull****. Not only do warriors have an array of charges, but once they get you in mele range, they can keep you there. It's a lot easier for a warrior to get in mele range than it is for someone to kite a warrior.

1 Charge out of combat that has maximum 25 yard range and 1 in combat that has 25 yard range and costs 10 rage (Intervene also, but that only works if you target a teammate). Its easy to kite Warriors. At times its been borderline humiliating seeing a Warrior get kited

BKtje

borderline? I got kited around as a lvl 70 warrior by a lvl 66 mage in a duel (i was prot so its not the greatest example but you get the idea). It lasted ages but he just spammed ice lance and prayed for the odd crit followed by a low lvl frost bolt. When he got anyway towards half life he'd nova me, go out los and bandage. Went on for about 10minutes but he eventually whittled me down.

Binomate

B-K-DzR wrote:

Warriors have two charges one of which is out of combat only. You see a warrior, you dot him or ice lance or sw:p or any insta cast and he can't charge. Intercept is serker stance only, 30sec cooldown (unless talented but then your fury not arms).

All that does is delay the use of of Intercept by getting him in combat before he can use charge. I usually use mind sooth on a warrior, since it puts him in combat and causes him to get no rage, but even still it's only a matter of time before he intercepts.

B-K-DzR wrote:

Unless you use fear or whatever cc abilities you have (yes they can bring it in all stances if fury spec or once every 30 in serker).

I can't remember the last time a Warrior wasn't immune to my fear.

B-K-DzR wrote:

Most classes have some way of getting distance from a warrior if they couldn't get the ooc charge in. If they do its somewhat harder (unless your a mage ).

This is assuming the warrior hasn't got the charge off first, which is improbable in places like arenas. The only ones who have the ability to get away from the warrior when he has you hamstringed are paladins and frost mages.

B-K-DzR wrote:

Fear immune is once every 3 minutes if they have fury or arms/fury (neither of which are pvp builds). If they are serker stance they are fear immune for 10 secs every 30. Seduce immune/high resist is news to me. Its the sure fire way to beat a warrior is seduce spam.

I don't even mind the fact that they can be immune to fear when they need it. It's the fact that they're so hard to kill when they have a healer that's rediculous, and the sheer amount of damage they can output with the healer.

B-K-DzR wrote:

Rogues have blind/slowing poison/stun lock.
Warlocks have seduce/lolcoil/fear
Shaman have frostshock/earthbind
Pally's have plate as well and HoJ
Mage...fire use mana shield to stop his rage buildup, frost just close eyes and press random buttons for easy win, arcane use slow.
Hunter..can usualy kite warrior to death
priest..pw:s early to stop rage buildup and fear when not in serker.

I had the missfortune of rolling an alliance priest. If the warrior is no undead, or immune to fear, he will trinket out of my fear and probably charge me instantly, if he had a slow reaction time. Even if I fear the warrior, I'm probably hamstringed, meaning it's still super easy for the warrior to get in range for charge or what ever.

B-K-DzR wrote:

I'm not saying it's easy (unless your a lock with succu or a mage) but to say you can't stay away from em is silly.

I agree that if a pvp spec warrior is in melee range he destroys most classes but the mission of any warrior is to get there as anything else is effectively their "dead zone"

I'm going to test this tactic out a little more in arenas later when I get out of SSC. I had tried before, but gave up, since it seemed pointless. I'll get back to you with how sucessfull I've been later on tonight.

cance

Binomate wrote:

I can't remember the last time a Warrior wasn't immune to my fear.

QFT +1

c0rk3r

Every character has there day in the sun. Warriors seem to be the flavour of the month.

I can say as a Shadowpriest im totally useless in arena's. I get targeted first all the time every time. Were seen as weak which is true, i go down quicker than a cheap hooker. THeres absolutely nothing i can do. I dont have enough time to cast mindblast which is the only spell worth casting, my dots arent enough. Fear gets broken every time. I spent 5k gold get tailor up to 375 for decent gear instead of getting a mount and what a waste that was.

So i try without shadowform using prayer of mending, renew, shield and fear, flash heals. Works prefectly. I play with a warrior and win everytime. Only problem is i need to respec now and get healing gear. which im not going to do. Instead im going to quit and join a gym to occupy my time.

I dont see the point moaning about specific classes. Blizzard seem to work on rotating of nerf and improving certain classes. Just wait for your time.

Drakar

The shadowpriest in our 5 man frequently does more dps than the warrior and warlock. We're going with a priest and paladin as healers so he does have a fair bit of healing, but still. People seem to like going for the regular priest and the warlock first.

BKtje

This is assuming the warrior hasn't got the charge off first, which is improbable in places like arenas.

I personally never have a problem getting the warrior into combat before he charges in arena's (i arena with my mage, warrior is prot spec these days).

If the warrior is immune they either use serker rage before/after intercept or in arena's they might have specced deatwish from fury tree(it takes out some of the more useful late arms talents tho) which they use at the start.

As i don't currently have a class that can fear a warrior (well bar my own warrior) i haven't really noticed it i guess.

Coyler

Speaking as a Warrior, never attack us. Go for the healer. Without rage we are pretty weak.

I might add that we are never immune to Deathcoil.

Ivan

Except trinketlol...

Paj

i'm an elemental shaman, and theres no chance for me versus a warrior these days - if he comes at me.

he's got over 10k health it just takes me far to long to get through that while he is kicking my head in.

but....its rock paper scissors, if i can safely lightning bolt him while he's on someone else he is going down. I've jst learned to hang back away from the action and nuke into the crowd. take my deaths when they are handed to me, not cry about it, and move on.

If i could pwn everyone i'ld just end up being one of those pricks who think they are great pvpers but really its their class mechanics (hunters :P )

cance

can somebody explain the fear immunity warriors can receive? as it kicks my ass in every single time.

one player for example, 13k hp on his pvp warrior newish gear 1-2 epics nothing pvp related. has me dead before i take 6k from him.

playing his hunter, i have him dead before he can break fear...

every time i duel his warrior my howl of terror gets resisted and starts pounding the shíte out of me so fast i barely have time to hit the lolcoil button.

Flex

cance wrote:

can somebody explain the fear immunity warriors can receive? as it kicks my ass in every single time.

one player for example, 13k hp on his pvp warrior newish gear 1-2 epics nothing pvp related. has me dead before i take 6k from him.

playing his hunter, i have him dead before he can break fear...

every time i duel his warrior my howl of terror gets resisted and starts pounding the shíte out of me so fast i barely have time to hit the lolcoil button.

In Berserker stance Warriors have a trainable skill called Berserker Rage, it increases the rage the Warrior gains from damage recieved and also grants immunity/ or breaks fear and incapacitating effects (like Sap). Lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. Also, 21 point talent in the Fury tree called Deathwish gives fear immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes or soemthing I think

Mr. CooL ICE

Flex wrote:

In Berserker stance Warriors have a trainable skill called Berserker Rage, it increases the rage the Warrior gains from damage recieved and also grants immunity/ or breaks fear and incapacitating effects (like Sap). Lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. Also, 21 point talent in the Fury tree called Deathwish gives fear immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes or soemthing I think

And just to add to this; Deathwish was nerfed in a recent 'nuff patch so that if Enrage (a passive skill gained through talents in the fury tree) kicks in while deathwish is active, it is automatically removed. Pretty much means that warriors aren't as deadly as they once were in that respect.

Also, the typical way in which a warrior attacks is to charge first (assuming they arent in combat), which is basically instant cast. Charge can only be done in battle stance, so once the warrior charges, their next move will either be something like MS or a change to berzerker stance. This means that if you want to fear them early, you better hope that they weren't slow enough to not have changed to berzerker stance within the time you are stunned from their original charge.

As said before, getting the warrior into combat mode before he gets his charge in will help a lot. One of the main differences between charge and intercept to a warrior is that charge generates rage (a lot of rage if a 2h is being wielded), whereas an intercept costs rage. If your initial approach was rushed, and your attempt of getting them into combat was to fire off an instacast spell/attack, such as a DoT, then chances are, the rage generated from that initial attack isn't enough for a warrior to use intercept. The warrior will need to use bloodrage (generates rage at the expense of a small amount of health - can't remember how much health tho), reducing his health a small amount, but after that they will intercept.

I never PVPd much with my warrior and was never actually MS specced, so there may be a few inconsistencies above. Feel free to correct

BKtje

Bloodrage uses 7% of your base health which is not nothing.

cance

LordChessington wrote:

useful info

thanks a million m8, will try either chasing him before the duel begins and howl ofterror his ass or instant dot him to slow him down. MS is the real killer tho.